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powderfreak

NNE Fall Thread

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32 minutes ago, wxeyeNH said:

1.00" rain.  High temp got up to 47F last night.

Sun coming out.  

J Spin.   A good quality webcam for Jay Peak would cost $200 to setup.  Ski resorts like Loon really don't have any good setup either.  I think they must not want to show the public what is actually going on.  Perhaps I understand for Loon but with Jay being in the snowglobe I would think they would want to show it off?!

Gee, I can't imagine why Jay wouldnt put a snowcam that could reliably verify the incredible snowfall they report.:rolleyes: 

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1 hour ago, Hitman said:

Gee, I can't imagine why Jay wouldnt put a snowcam that could reliably verify the incredible snowfall they report.:rolleyes: 

They have lenses that can make you look taller. ;)

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4 hours ago, wxeyeNH said:

1.00" rain.  High temp got up to 47F last night.

Sun coming out.  

J Spin.   A good quality webcam for Jay Peak would cost $200 to setup.  Ski resorts like Loon really don't have any good setup either.  I think they must not want to show the public what is actually going on.  Perhaps I understand for Loon but with Jay being in the snowglobe I would think they would want to show it off?!

I honestly don't think there is a ski resort in the east that makes a conscious decision not to install a web cam because they don't want to show the public.  

Thats like a 1995 type thinking when ski resorts used to make things up but with social media that's gone by the wayside.  

Plus web cams aren't really going to show accumulations unless it's a dedicated snow cam like Sugarbush...so it's not like a web cam will help you identify snowfall at Jay, except that it is snowing.  And it does snow there a lot, it's just the accumulations side of things people question.

They did have some Glades open in November, and that doesn't happen without some decent snow.

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4 hours ago, Hitman said:

Gee, I can't imagine why Jay wouldnt put a snowcam that could reliably verify the incredible snowfall they report.:rolleyes: 

See I do truly believe they get the most snow. It makes sense.  Maybe it's not quite what is reported but I believe they get more than Stowe, which gets more than Sugarbush who gets more than Killington who gets more than Mount Snow.  

I am a firm believer in snowfall annual averages increasing as you head north up the Spine.

Sometimes it's hard to believe they might get 100" more than Mansfield in a season... but at the same time if I'm a Killington local I may be wondering how Sugarbush gets 100" more (last year there was like 120" difference between Bush and Killington) despite being so close to the north.  Who's to say that can't happen again further north?

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1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

See I do truly believe they get the most snow. It makes sense.  Maybe it's not quite what is reported but I believe they get more than Stowe, which gets more than Sugarbush who gets more than Killington who gets more than Mount Snow.  

I am a firm believer in snowfall annual averages increasing as you head north up the Spine.

Sometimes it's hard to believe they might get 100" more than Mansfield in a season... but at the same time if I'm a Killington local I may be wondering how Sugarbush gets 100" more (last year there was like 120" difference between Bush and Killington) despite being so close to the north.  Who's to say that can't happen again further north?

back to his original point though, with web cam technology so cheap and a great promotion why don't you guys utilize the free advertising. I know SR is putting a bunch in, its silly not to. I have been fighting city hall to get one at the Museum for years, now that the zip line , a mile long ends here they are going to do it

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48 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

back to his original point though, with web cam technology so cheap and a great promotion why don't you guys utilize the free advertising. I know SR is putting a bunch in, its silly not to. I have been fighting city hall to get one at the Museum for years, now that the zip line , a mile long ends here they are going to do it

Yeah I think Stowe will see more and better cams over the next year now that Vail Resorts is moving in.  A lot of times it just comes down to time, resources and mostly priorities.  Priorities are probably why you have been fighting city hall for years.  Its a very easy thing but at the same time not the easiest.

Stowe was also owned by AIG before and they took internet/network security to a whole new level, it wasn't as easy as just setting one up in your living room.  Stowe has at least had a summit cam for the past few seasons which can at times be useful... base area cams are great but people really want to know what's going on up high.  I also foresee a "snow cam" set up for next winter.

At the very least we can see the weather in the base and at the top.

1.thumb.jpe.ea610b99510de961ca4b8a14dc66b8e6.jpe

2.thumb.jpe.8a8a13835456903652315a21d302089a.jpe

 

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1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

See I do truly believe they get the most snow. It makes sense.  Maybe it's not quite what is reported but I believe they get more than Stowe, which gets more than Sugarbush who gets more than Killington who gets more than Mount Snow.  

I am a firm believer in snowfall annual averages increasing as you head north up the Spine.

Sometimes it's hard to believe they might get 100" more than Mansfield in a season... but at the same time if I'm a Killington local I may be wondering how Sugarbush gets 100" more (last year there was like 120" difference between Bush and Killington) despite being so close to the north.  Who's to say that can't happen again further north?

I dont disagree that they get the most snow in the east.  But I also believe they exaggerate their totals.  we've been monitoring Jspins reporting of the VT resort snowfall reports for how many years now (I forget whether he did so back on eastern) and there have been more than a few times when Jay has posted highly suspect numbers.  And anecdotal observations from various people have found the same thing.

The difference between Kton and sb from last year is skewed by the fact that SB was using the snow stake early in the season for the summit measurement until they acknowledged that it was less than accurate.  I mean, 100" difference can happen in a season, but there's no way I believe that Stowe averages 310" and Jay is over 400".

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2 minutes ago, Hitman said:

and fwiw, Whitewater added a summit cam (on their new lift) this season to their already excellent snow stake cam.  Note the snow stake isnt there until they open 12/9.

https://www.skiwhitewater.com/Ski-ride/conditions/webcams

Man the image quality on that top photo is crazy.  Same with the Sugarbush snow cam....I want that.  The high-def live streaming is pretty crazy picture quality for 4,000ft in Vermont.

 

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1 minute ago, powderfreak said:

Man the image quality on that top photo is crazy.  Same with the Sugarbush snow cam....I want that.  The high-def live streaming is pretty crazy picture quality for 4,000ft in Vermont.

 

right? I want to be there, either place, now.  what you see in the background on the right is Ymir Peak which is some pretty incredible sidecountry terrain. The cam is on their new summit quad which replaced the original double chair this summer.  funny, the difference in revenue between a ski resort and a place like whitewater.

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9 minutes ago, Hitman said:

I dont disagree that they get the most snow in the east.  But I also believe they exaggerate their totals.  we've been monitoring Jspins reporting of the VT resort snowfall reports for how many years now (I forget whether he did so back on eastern) and there have been more than a few times when Jay has posted highly suspect numbers.  And anecdotal observations from various people have found the same thing.

The difference between Kton and sb from last year is skewed by the fact that SB was using the snow stake early in the season for the summit measurement until they acknowledged that it was less than accurate.  I mean, 100" difference can happen in a season, but there's no way I believe that Stowe averages 310" and Jay is over 400".

Oh I hear ya, I'm sort of in the same boat.  I don't think its as much as advertised.  My main issue comes during a lot of the very windy snowstorms when I do think they just toss out numbers... ie "Its been snowing all day long, its gotta be 8-10 or so though its all blown all over the place."  The ones that stand out are the nor'easter or coastal systems where you see a steady clear trend of more south and less north with every resort J.Spin lists is a few inches less as you head north but then Jay bucks that trend and says the same as say like Killington or Stratton in a nor'easter with a very clear NW to SE gradient. 

I did notice in a couple of their early season posts that sort of illustrated what some speculate... like this photo was with 8-10" of new snow.  There's definitely 8-10" on one side of the trail but not the other.

23800228_10155854833104441_3060766037289

 

However, we had 37" of snow in November and some people did wander into the woods to ski, but it didn't look like what Jay was showing. 

23926612_10155875760429441_7983832293884

 

Even yesterday with the rain they are still in the glades.  They had to get a good 1-2 more feet than us I would think to be at that point.

24799429_10155895211274441_7660707820076

 

I'm just thinking judging by the photos and the woods skiing/riding... their 55" vs. our 37" makes sense to me. 

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3 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Oh I hear ya, I'm sort of in the same boat.  I don't think its as much as advertised.  My main issue comes during a lot of the very windy snowstorms when I do think they just toss out numbers... ie "Its been snowing all day long, its gotta be 8-10 or so though its all blown all over the place."  The ones that stand out are the nor'easter or coastal systems where you see a steady clear trend of more south and less north with every resort J.Spin lists is a few inches less as you head north but then Jay bucks that trend and says the same as say like Killington or Stratton in a nor'easter with a very clear NW to SE gradient. 

I did notice in a couple of their early season posts that sort of illustrated what some speculate... like this photo was with 8-10" of new snow.  There's definitely 8-10" on one side of the trail but not the other.

23800228_10155854833104441_3060766037289

 

However, we had 37" of snow in November and some people did wander into the woods to ski, but it didn't look like what Jay was showing. 

23926612_10155875760429441_7983832293884

 

Even yesterday with the rain they are still in the glades.  They had to get a good 1-2 more feet than us I would think to be at that point.

24799429_10155895211274441_7660707820076

 

I'm just thinking judging by the photos and the woods skiing/riding... their 55" vs. our 37" makes sense to me. 

it just burns me that people think that Jay gets like twice as much snow as anyone else in the east.  and I'm not talking about gapers.  I'm talking about real VT skiers.  My wifes cousin has skied regularly at Okemo for about 25 years and swears that Jay gets 500"/year.  Its crazy.

meanwhile, I was talking to a guy who goes regularly from LI to Jay for the weekend.  That's f...ing nuts.  My drive to SB is 4.5 and thats pretty crazy, but 7 from LI, wow.

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6 minutes ago, Hitman said:

it just burns me that people think that Jay gets like twice as much snow as anyone else in the east.  and I'm not talking about gapers.  I'm talking about real VT skiers.  My wifes cousin has skied regularly at Okemo for about 25 years and swears that Jay gets 500"/year.  Its crazy.

meanwhile, I was talking to a guy who goes regularly from LI to Jay for the weekend.  That's f...ing nuts.  My drive to SB is 4.5 and thats pretty crazy, but 7 from LI, wow.

Jay has done great in marketing that snow.  

I mean and if you watch from afar and see the images and photos and stuff...I mean you're seeing daily photos in NOVEMBER of people skiing the trees and then you think some other areas struggle to get enough snow down to open glades in January.  

Ive also noticed they seem to get no one on social media calling them out.  Like any ski resort posts a wrong snow total and it's a social media sh*tshow but Jay doesn't seem to have that.  

Skiers are also very optimistic on the whole and I bet if I sampled a whole bunch of Stowe skiers they would over-estimate the new snow daily.  That's why I see a lot of "It seemed like there was more snow than that" but actual measuring doesn't lie.  Skiers also go to where the powder is.  If it's all wind scoured on one side of a trail, you go ski the other side where it all collected.  That then turns into "There was 6-8 inches on Starr!" when in reality it was 4" but blew around and as a skier you instinctively found the deep line.

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2 hours ago, powderfreak said:

Plus web cams aren't really going to show accumulations unless it's a dedicated snow cam like Sugarbush...so it's not like a web cam will help you identify snowfall at Jay, except that it is snowing.

 

Yeah, that’s all I was looking for today, just something like what Bolton Valley’s got at their main base that can tell you if there are flakes in the air.  In this case it would have just been nice to take a look at what was going on at elevation with effect to the radar image.  Jay Peak would probably reap great excitement with a cam like that, since people see it snowing there and get psyched – and we know how frequently flakes are in the air there.

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Catching up with this thread and webcams...

So it took me literally half an hour to set up my 2 NEST cams.  Find a plug, have WIFI connectivity and set up the online account and you're done.  It doesn't take a lot of resources and man-hours to do this..   

Loon really bugs me cause it is one of the biggest resorts in NH and really no webcams other than 2  dark, small frames blurry cam's facing a slope with man-made towers. ( I grew up skiing that mountain)  So absolutely no way to see how much snow they have/are getting in a storm.  Just for fun as a litte project  I decided over the past month to call them and ask them about it.  Operator says she can't help me.  They connect me to this person's extension or that person's extension every time I call and I leave a message as to why I am calling.  No one ever calls me back.  So I really do think there is a conscious reason why they don't show a wide shot of the resort like Stowe does so someone wondering  "how much snow did they really get overnight, should I take a quick drive up from Boston?" would be able to make a good decision.

Edit,  reading your post PF.  A general resort webcam showing a roof, railings, parking lot even the base lodge with outdoor picnic tables, ski racks etc. can show how much new snow has fallen.  Even a cam with a structure will show if snow is falling.  So much easy, good technology now.  Something is going on with places like Jay or Loon or maybe their marketing departments just stink....

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Hitman said:

it just burns me that people think that Jay gets like twice as much snow as anyone else in the east.  and I'm not talking about gapers.  I'm talking about real VT skiers.  My wifes cousin has skied regularly at Okemo for about 25 years and swears that Jay gets 500"/year.  Its crazy.

meanwhile, I was talking to a guy who goes regularly from LI to Jay for the weekend.  That's f...ing nuts.  My drive to SB is 4.5 and thats pretty crazy, but 7 from LI, wow.

AS a VT State employee and taxpayer, I, for one, thank you for making the nutty drive!

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A year ago today...the first half of December was pretty crazy last winter. 

60 inches in the first 15 days on the upper mountain, we were only at December 6 at this point...heavy snows after this.

15403840_10102759949955030_2432686277026

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Event totals: 0.1” Snow/Trace L.E.

 

I woke up to find the ground whitened with flurries in the air and a tenth of an inch of new snow down on the snowboards.  The models and forecasts did suggest that today would have more potential to get some LES over this way, so it wasn’t too unexpected.  Form what I saw around Waterbury, accumulations were similar to what we had at the house, but it seemed a bit more substantial in parts of Richmond/Williston as I was passing though.

 

Details from the 6:00 A.M. Waterbury observations:

 

New Snow: 0.1 inches

New Liquid: Trace

Temperature: 33.4 F

Sky: Flurries (2-3 mm flakes)

Snow at the stake: Trace

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I love that when JSpin posts about snow, there's a good chance the same will be happening soon after at my house. Seems like about an hour delay or so lol. I'm in that awful place called Texas (sorry to an Texans in here), but nice to see it's snowing moderately at home!

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3 hours ago, J.Spin said:

It looks like an impulse of moisture just moved into the area because the spine of the Greens has disappeared into snow as far as I can see (south to Mount Abraham and well north of Mount Mansfield).  I can see snowfall on the Bolton Valley Live Web Cam and the radar does show quite a spread of moisture up and down the spine:

 

07DEC17A.gif

Yea, it's been way less "focused" than a LES band hitting the greens normally is and is spreading the moisture pretty good up and down the spine. Not really nuking snow on any of the webcams but certainly refreshing everything.  2-3" will go a loooooong way. 

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23 minutes ago, adk said:

Yea, it's been way less "focused" than a LES band hitting the greens normally is and is spreading the moisture pretty good up and down the spine. Not really nuking snow on any of the webcams but certainly refreshing everything.  2-3" will go a loooooong way. 

We have even been getting in on it down here.  No accumulation but nice mood snow.

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3 hours ago, J.Spin said:

I was just checking Sugarbush’s Lincoln Peak Snow Stake Webcam time lapse and cracked up when I saw this shot – in the sequence it comes up just after the board was cleared:

 

07DEC17A.jpg

Ha, that's awesome, I've seen that shared in a few places now.  Its really impressive the set-up they have now.  That's legit and right there in a very high-elevation and favorable location.  If its a truly sheltered spot that place will get a good snow sample.  If its windy, it will even register low.  Depending on how good a surrounding tree wall/wind-break there is, it could certainly get blown off a bit and under-report...but if they are diligent in clearing it twice a day, or not letting the stack get too big (as long as the clearing isn't any less than every 6 hours), then its a more than legit reading.  As someone in a similar situation, I can say that it is always better to be low than high with snow reports.  People like it when they leave thinking it was at least as much as reported or even more, rather than wondering where it was.  There's also a respect for the science and John has it...I'm sure he was the driving force behind the elevated set up (after the occasional drifting issue last winter) and the high-def cam. 

J.Spin, I'm sure you know, but John A. is another one of us Skivittlers from the prime UVM list-serve days. 

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12 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

A little over an inch of fluff at the office elevation...it snowed lightly for over 9 hours straight today.  The most persistent mood snow you'll ever see.

sDLH8me.jpg

saturday into sunday is getting a bit more interesting too....

 

Off topic, know any decent furniture stores in vt? I need a couch, gave mine to employee housing and my other option fell through. I talked with wendell today, but they get horrible reviews online.

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