Ginx snewx Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I agree. But the way you did it wouldn't prove that. We have to normalize the events. February was about a 3 sigma (a bit more actually) event. May was roughly 2 sigma. I'm actually surprised that would be a record. It was a vulnerable month. A least in Boston. I just looked at raw data, both months on either spectrum is pretty amazing in one short 3 month span. In the space of 120 days we set two all time monthly records, some one needs to look that up to see if that has ever occurred. when you see monthly records its very rare to see the same year. 2015 now in some towns has 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 <AGW alarmists>The models said we would have this.<AGW alarmists> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 What is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I just looked at raw data, both months on either spectrum is pretty amazing in one short 3 month span. In the space of 120 days we set two all time monthly records, some one needs to look that up to see if that has ever occurred. when you see monthly records its very rare to see the same year. 2015 now in some towns has 2 Well BOS technically didn't get their record in February and ORH only got 3rd warmest in May. Did anyone get top spot for both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Well BOS technically didn't get their record in February and ORH only got 3rd warmest in May. Did anyone get top spot for both? BDL I think. MQE possibly too..although I have to look. Edit: BDL moved though so maybe not apples to apples for Hartford area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 ORH airport monthly record high ave months 2006 32.4 Jan 1984 33.9 Feb 2012 43.9 Mar 2010 51.1 April 2015 62.5 May 1949 69.6 June 1952 74.3 July 2005 72.5 Aug 1961 66.0 Sept 1963 56.8 Oct 2011 46.8 Nov 2006 36.3 Dec ORH airport monthly record low temp ave records months 1970 14.9 Jan 2015 14.2 Feb 1960 26.1 Mar 1972 40.3 Apr 1967 48.8 May 1958 59.9 Jun 1992 65.8 July 1964 63.4 Aug 1963 56.5 Sept 1972 44.7 Oct 1967 34.4 Nov 1989 15.1 Dec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Well BOS technically didn't get their record in February and ORH only got 3rd warmest in May. Did anyone get top spot for both? ORH airport data did, can't compare the two sites, pretty useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Concord ,BDL did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Concord ,BDL did BDL changed sites though didn't it...well I mean the Hartford area location for obs. Anyways, no Blue Hill didn't have coldest Feb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 BDL changed sites though didn't it...well I mean the Hartford area location for obs. Anyways, no Blue Hill didn't have coldest Feb. comparing BDL to Hartford is like comparing Boston to Tan, makes zero sense. I have to say same siting sites are much more reliable true indicators of records. Boston and ORH being great examples. so the asterisk has to be modern siting site for ORH BOS I guess but BDL can never ever be compared to HFD they are way too far apart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 You can't just dismiss other sites without looking at the difference. ORH's old record in 1918 is 64.8F. The difference of 2.3F from this year's 62.5 is not explained by siting changes. That is way too large a margin. They also had a 64.3 in 1911 which is a large difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 comparing BDL to Hartford is like comparing Boston to Tan, makes zero sense. I have to say same siting sites are much more reliable true indicators of records. Boston and ORH being great examples. so the asterisk has to be modern siting site for ORH BOS I guess but BDL can never ever be compared to HFD they are way too far apart I would argue for temps, BDL and HFD are much closer than current BOS and the old BOS site inland a bit. We can probably calculate the difference actually. I'll have to run the numbers when I get some time. I know I ran numbers on the two ORH sites years ago and they aren't that different. The current site has colder max temps but the old site had colder min temps so they almost washed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I would argue for temps, BDL and HFD are much closer than current BOS and the old BOS site inland a bit. We can probably calculate the difference actually. I'll have to run the numbers when I get some time. I know I ran numbers on the two ORH sites years ago and they aren't that different. The current site has colder max temps but the old site had colder min temps so they almost washed. There is a degree difference in mean in Dec and Jan, BDL radiates better , HFD is an urban environment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 You can't just dismiss other sites without looking at the difference. ORH's old record in 1918 is 64.8F. The difference of 2.3F from this year's 62.5 is not explained by siting changes. That is way too large a margin. They also had a 64.3 in 1911 which is a large difference. Science has to compare apples to apples though when dealing with absolutes, especially records which are to the tenth of a degree. I agree those examples you gave are huge but on a normality with say below 50 degree days siting can make all the difference between 50.1 and 49.9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Science has to compare apples to apples though when dealing with absolutes, especially records which are to the tenth of a degree. I agree those examples you gave are huge but on a normality with say below 50 degree days siting can make all the difference between 50.1 and 49.9 Yes it can....but unfortunately since it is all we have, we thread the records together. Like before 2015, even with siting changes, nobody in their right mind would have claimed that February 1934 doesn't really count because it was during a time with different siting for BOS/ORH/BDL. It was so much colder, that we know the siting differences didn't matter. Now in the case of BOS, the siting differences definitely did matter once 2015 came along. They missed 1934 by a tenth of a degree, which is easily less than the difference between the old inland site and the airport site in the harbor. In BDL's case, they broke 1934 despite a warm biased thermometer that had gone haywire in late winter/early spring 2014. There's all kinds of inhomogenous variables that make achieving temperatures accurate to within a few tenths an unrealistic task. We also have the issue of the old liquid thermometers vs newer MMT electronic thermometers....they don't produce the same exact temps all the time, and can vary depending on conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Valley Snowman Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 BDL is running warmer than HFD on most DSD days. Hartford Brainard isn't right downtown either. BDL doesn't radiate that well either. They are about 13 miles apart and BDL is about 150 ft higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 BDL is running warmer than HFD on most DSD days. Hartford Brainard isn't right downtown either. BDL doesn't radiate that well either. They are about 13 miles apart and BDL is about 150 ft higher. BDL isn't a great radiator, but they radiate better than HFD. Esp in winter. In the summer it isn't as noticeable. But their winter time low temps are like a degree colder than HFD. Their high temps have historically run colder than HFD as well, until the step-change in early 2014. Though in summer, their high temps run slightly warmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 In the last 143 years, only 3 June days have ever failed to reach 50F. 2 of those have been yesterday & today. Farmington, Maine has recorded just 4 days in 123 Junes with max under 50, one at 46 (9th, 1956) and 3 at 49. Since my high yesterday was 45, it will certainly be their 2nd coolest June max, and might have threatened their record. I just looked at raw data, both months on either spectrum is pretty amazing in one short 3 month span. In the space of 120 days we set two all time monthly records, some one needs to look that up to see if that has ever occurred. when you see monthly records its very rare to see the same year. 2015 now in some towns has 2 Farmington set two coldest-month records in a 12-month period (barely within), March 2014 and Feb 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 ORH airport monthly record high ave months 2006 32.4 Jan 1984 33.9 Feb 2012 43.9 Mar 2010 51.1 April 2015 62.5 May 1949 69.6 June 1952 74.3 July 2005 72.5 Aug 1961 66.0 Sept 1963 56.8 Oct 2011 46.8 Nov 2006 36.3 Dec ORH airport monthly record low temp ave records months 1970 14.9 Jan 2015 14.2 Feb 1960 26.1 Mar 1972 40.3 Apr 1967 48.8 May 1958 59.9 Jun 1992 65.8 July 1964 63.4 Aug 1963 56.5 Sept 1972 44.7 Oct 1967 34.4 Nov 1989 15.1 Dec Lot of 2000s on that warm list, not many on the cold list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 You can't just dismiss other sites without looking at the difference. ORH's old record in 1918 is 64.8F. The difference of 2.3F from this year's 62.5 is not explained by siting changes. That is way too large a margin. They also had a 64.3 in 1911 which is a large difference. I only mentioned that caveat in case someone swooped in to claim they were different sites. I didn't have the data in front of me to see if it mattered that much, or when the start periods were for both HFD and then BDL climo records. It's all semantics to me anyways..it was a warm month, the numbers aren't critical for me personally. If the records for old and new sites only different by several tenths of a degree...I think you can get the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsentropicLift Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Happy June Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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