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E PA/NJ/DE/Okle: Banter/Non Storm OBS thread


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Figured this could be a good discussion starter in the banter thread ...

 

This time of year, there is a lot of discussion about sun angle and how it can hamper snow accumulation.  Of course, March sun and surface temperatures above freezing can be overcome with heavy enough rates.

 

My :weenie: question is this:  has anyone seen any kind of formula that incorporates all of the variables to determine the likelihood of snow accumulating on various surfaces?  How would one weigh the different variables?  Am I missing anything critical?  Maybe there is some kind of table to illustrate these considerations?

 

For instance (all numbers hypothetical based on my limited understanding and assume all levels of atmosphere above 900 mb are below freezing):

Jan 8 * 4 am * surface temps at 25 degrees F * 900 mb at 20 degrees F * visibility of 1/4 mile = 100% chance of snow accumulating on all surfaces

 

March 21 * 12 noon * surface temps at 34 degrees F * 900 mb at 30 degrees F * visibility of 1/4 mile = 50% chance of snow accumulating on pavement, 75% on grass

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Figured this could be a good discussion starter in the banter thread ...

 

This time of year, there is a lot of discussion about sun angle and how it can hamper snow accumulation.  Of course, March sun and surface temperatures above freezing can be overcome with heavy enough rates.

 

My :weenie: question is this:  has anyone seen any kind of formula that incorporates all of the variables to determine the likelihood of snow accumulating on various surfaces?  How would one weigh the different variables?  Am I missing anything critical?  Maybe there is some kind of table to illustrate these considerations?

 

For instance (all numbers hypothetical based on my limited understanding and assume all levels of atmosphere above 900 mb are below freezing):

Jan 8 * 4 am * surface temps at 25 degrees F * 900 mb at 20 degrees F * visibility of 1/4 mile = 100% chance of snow accumulating on all surfaces

 

March 21 * 12 noon * surface temps at 34 degrees F * 900 mb at 30 degrees F * visibility of 1/4 mile = 50% chance of snow accumulating on pavement, 75% on grass

 

This could be handled scientifically, assuming one knew all the variables, which I would think would include:

 

Precipitation rate

Air temperature

Insolation

Surface temperature of surface

Internal temperature of surface

Type of surface

 

That's just a wild-ass stab at how you could calculate that.  There's probably a published formula somewhere. 

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This could be handled scientifically, assuming one knew all the variables, which I would think would include:

 

Precipitation rate

Air temperature

Insolation

Surface temperature of surface

Internal temperature of surface

Type of surface

 

That's just a wild-ass stab at how you could calculate that.  There's probably a published formula somewhere. 

Would salt on the road surface, amount and type of moisture on the existing surface, soil temperature, and wind speed play be considered variables as well?

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Would salt on the road surface, amount and type of moisture on the existing surface, soil temperature, and wind speed play be considered variables as well?

 

Salt certainly.  Now that I think about it, duration would also matter, both with and without salt.

 

I don't think moisture would matter much.  If the surface is above freezing, the first thing the snow will do upon impact will be to melt, thus making the surface wet.

 

Soil temperature kinda goes along with "internal temperature" which I listed already.

Wind speed would matter more if the air is significantly cooler than the surface. 

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So why the hell do we have to have this bull**** pattern now as we head into spring???? This sucks...

 

The last few springs have been awesome and maybe even a little too summer-like. It certainly was nice and I'm definitely looking forward to convective season. Unfortunately, it looks like this is the kind of spring that starts off with a nor'easter or two.

The "return to a blocking state around astronomical spring" idea is looking better and better. While we always get brief bouts of warmth (like earlier this week) this time of year, it seems like cold temperatures will be able to plow southward through mid-April. :(

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