OSUmetstud Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 The tornado looked like it skipped over the ridge top on the east side of Monson...I'm not sure if that's possible...but there was major tree damage about 3/4 up the hill side then it suddenly stopped near the ridge top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Yeah it traveled over plenty of hilly terrain in Monson, Brimfield, and Sturbridge. Sort of reminds me of Great Barrington... forming in the Housatonic Valley on the downwind side of the Taconics and once the low level vertical vorticity was established and tornadogenesis took place it was able to continue unimpeded over large hills. It's possible that the same thing happened in the 1989 tornado in West Cornwall that started in the valley and then moved up into the hills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 The tornado looked like it skipped over the ridge top on the east side of Monson...I'm not sure if that's possible...but there was major tree damage about 3/4 up the hill side then it suddenly stopped near the ridge top. I think the tornado may have lifted in Wilbraham for a period of time as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I think the tornado may have lifted in Wilbraham for a period of time as well. Will they be counting it as 2 then? Or has that already been done? Wilbraham...home of Friendly's ... mmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I think the tornado may have lifted in Wilbraham for a period of time as well. S of the main damage path there was an odd small area of damage near the ridge top to on the SE side of Monson...I wonder if it could have been inflow or something. It looked like it might have been 1/2 mile to a mile away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamrivers Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 The tornado looked like it skipped over the ridge top on the east side of Monson...I'm not sure if that's possible...but there was major tree damage about 3/4 up the hill side then it suddenly stopped near the ridge top. No chance... I drove down East Hill Road which is at the top of the ridge, took some pix... and there was pretty good destruction up there....it did not lift there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamrivers Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 No chance... I drove down East Hill Road which is at the top of the ridge, took some pix... and there was pretty good destruction up there....it did not lift there And I also drove down Dean Pond road (in the next valley on the other side of the ridge) past the campground.....about a mile and a half past the campground the road was impassible since it was covered in trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornadotony Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 S of the main damage path there was an odd small area of damage near the ridge top to on the SE side of Monson...I wonder if it could have been inflow or something. It looked like it might have been 1/2 mile to a mile away. Sounds like a rear-flank downdraft microburst/intensification. Interesting that it occurred right before the tornado reached maximum intensity (supposedly)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sickman Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Sounds like a rear-flank downdraft microburst/intensification. Interesting that it occurred right before the tornado reached maximum intensity (supposedly)... Would local topography play a role in causing little pockets of damage like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornadotony Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Would local topography play a role in causing little pockets of damage like that? I would think that would be more likely a storm-process-driven thing not particularly unique to terrain, but I honestly can't say that with a whole ton of confidence. Truth is, we know the effects of terrain with quite a few synoptic scale and mesoscale features, but we know little about tornadogenesis/maintenance as it is, and even less about topographical influences. Everything that has been stated in this thread, though, does make theoretical sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernNJ Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I have a hobby of typing up warnings for severe weather in the NWS bullet format and comparing them to the actual warning issued for storms (assuming some warnings are issued). I use the radar at the NWS websites, which is fairly similar to the one at the warning desk, just without the details. One of the reasons for doing this is so I can have an opinion on an event in question that is not labeled being an “arm-chair meteorologist” or “Monday morning quarterback”. I try as best I can to have a warning forecaster mentality. I jumped onto the Taunton website at 4:15 PM EDT on June 1 to check out the TOR Warned storm north of Springfield. It had rather strong rotation for a little bit, yet it weakened abruptly. At this time, I looked at the SVR warning polygon that just appeared including Springfield. Since the first storm had weakened, I updated the radar scan and checked out the Storm Relative Motion using the BOX radar at the 4:22 PM EDT loop. I do not have the numbers of g2g available to measure at the website, but I usually just go by the brightening of the color pixels to detect tornadoes. I saw that the storm had just exited the RANGE FOLD and that the green directly below the red had increased significantly. I figured that since a TOR was not already in effect that this would be a good chance to write one up. I stated “a storm capable of producing a tornado near Westfield”. It took a couple of minutes to type it, which means that it would have gone out at around 4:25 PM EDT. Needless to say, I missed the touchdown as well. However, I was still 3-4 minutes ahead of the actual warning issued, which stated “a storm capable of producing a tornado near West Springfield”. Having watched it live as it happened not knowing the extent of what I was about to witness, I can say that the range fold certainly had an effect on the warning decision by Taunton. The only thing that it looked like could have been done differently was playing it safe and having a TOR issued at 4:18 PM EDT instead of the SVR because of the fact that the storm was heading into an environment favorable for tornadoes and because the storm was already exhibiting rotation (all be it relatively weak). Even so, the warning still would not have had much lead time. Having attempted to track storms during the April 27-28 Outbreak using Birmingham’s radar, I can officially say that I have the utmost respect for the meteorologists who are chosen to man the warning desk during a severe outbreak. It is impossible to tell which reflectivity and velocity images are going to turn into the long-tracked and strongest tornadoes just by radar alone. I believe that this event was not that big of a miss for the initial touchdown based upon my own observations and carefully reviewing the circumstances. It just so happens that Springfield and its surrounding areas were near the beginning of the path, so because of that we are all talking about it. I am still amazed how quickly it produced and turned violent, not much build up. Just shows that we as humans have no control over the weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southland Wx Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Really good thread, and these are certainly fair questions to ask. A real appreciation to the NWS folks for offering insight on what was going on. I've seen a lot of offices that will issue TORs for absolutely any t'storm in their CWA that exhibits any amount of rotation. I'm glad that it's been made apparent that the BOX office doesn't hand out TORs like candy. The one thing I think we've learned from this year (specifically Joplin) is that many people that are warned and warned again become fatigued from it and often won't act until it's too late. There really needs to be balance between overwarning and being too cautious, and I think the psychology of people's response to the warning process needs to be looked at a little more closely to see what NWS and others can do to improve this whole process. Good thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wx4cast Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Are tornadoes in this area harder to see on radar/instruments due to terrain? I know I know... dumb question Plenty of posters were posting radar shots and asking when they were going to issue the TOR warning for such and such a cell. Then a minute or 2 later, it would be issued. If the folks on here could see it, shouldn't they be able to? It seems pretty inexcusable to me. BOX's area of responsibility isn't that large geographically speaking and it's not like this was a brief area of rotation embedded within a line. It was pretty obvious...I'm curious as to why the warning wasn't put out sooner. it's pretty standard for people on this board to call for torn warns before they are issued (even when they are never issued for a reason)... i think you can get a certain level of rotation without there actually being a reason to warn. maybe the nws should dedicate one employee to read the boards all day. I do know here in ENY, if you will "masking" of features by the terrain combined with the height of the radar (around 2k ft agl) is an issue in the issuance of TOR vs SVR warnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrials Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/06/03/a_twister_poses_big_challenge_for_meteorologists/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wx4cast Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Really good thread, and these are certainly fair questions to ask. A real appreciation to the NWS folks for offering insight on what was going on. I've seen a lot of offices that will issue TORs for absolutely any t'storm in their CWA that exhibits any amount of rotation. I'm glad that it's been made apparent that the BOX office doesn't hand out TORs like candy. The one thing I think we've learned from this year (specifically Joplin) is that many people that are warned and warned again become fatigued from it and often won't act until it's too late. There really needs to be balance between overwarning and being too cautious, and I think the psychology of people's response to the warning process needs to be looked at a little more closely to see what NWS and others can do to improve this whole process. Good thread. This is one of the reasons why hail was changed from 3/4 to 1" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tropopause_Fold Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/06/03/a_twister_poses_big_challenge_for_meteorologists/ Thanks for posting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbutts Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share Posted June 4, 2011 http://www.boston.co...meteorologists/ But the tornado warnings are issued by the National Weather Service’s Storm Prediction Center and are not issued until a tornado can be confirmed. wtf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 [/size][/font][/font] wtf Yeah... I did a "huh?" when I saw that... that would be a bit back-assward ... although their verification number would go up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbutts Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share Posted June 4, 2011 The purpose of this thread and ramfications for impugning NWS is dubiously self-serving to me. I suspect that some of the issue here is really that some folks wanted the melodrama and excitement, and feel cheated because there wasn't blaring sirens and red flashing lights for people to get all manic in fear just that much more. They don't want their extreme weather party cut into - and perception is everything whether they know it or not.. and it is petty. The same sort of vibe emanates from the chorus in the winter, when snow is handled even slightly off from what is or is not realized relative to a forecast; just waiting to pounce with drool! Wrong attitude to have though. Again, it's more a reflection of weather for entertainment/emotion rather than science, and needing some source to blame when those emotional expectations were not fulfilled. It's all stupid to begin with because no one should be investing that way. I was on top of those cells yesterday and I thought it went over just fine. The reflectivity channels only hinted at a hooks until a tad later... I am aware of the gated this and that argument, but the velocity channels at KTAN its self did not show that quite as obviously as whatever these alterior product(s) origins are. Unless NWS uses some internal imagery that they don't show the publice - i don't know. Otherwise, from what was shown on KTAN's website's rad page, it was not abundantly clear there was a tornado on the ground - ground truth was key there; hense the appearance of a late dial up. I was watching both cells closely and thought the Springfield one - using KTAN's rad source - was somewhat suspicious looking when they issued a warning, and part of me even thought that might be the other way - trigger happy. I've seen countless "hooks" in the Plains with far better NWS radar velocity channel gates, and nothing more than a funnel cloud reported by storm chasers. Give it a rest. There is no issue here with how it was handled. I promise, the next one you'll get ALL your party favors in, and not have any of its affects diminished. jeez How exactly am I or anyone is anyone served by this thread? Are the personal feelings of your NWS friends more important than the lives they're paid to protect? It's not about petty dick waving, it appears to me that your post is. Your rant here is insulting, misguided, and just straight up wrong. The weather was extreme and damaging regardless of which warnings were issued. If there is anyone who was hoping for this, they got their wish anyway. My wish is for people who don't live on this forum during weather events to get their warnings so they have a chance to protect themselves. Events will happen regardless of my wishes or anyone else's and yes I admit I like the adrenaline rush from watching extreme weather (just like you and everyone else here). It's amazing that someone who's been around as long as you and makes the types of posts that you do still has the gall to call people out for it. If I were a mod I'd weenie tag you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrials Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 [/size][/font][/font] wtf I didn't write the article obviously, its a pretty typical weather piece, bits of good info and some bad info. I just posted it because it was " on topic". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Interesting piece on how this science teacher from Brimfield credits TWC with saving his and his family's lives: From today's Worcester Telegram online http://www.telegram.com/article/20110607/NEWS/110609734/1116 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Interesting piece on how this science teacher from Brimfield credits TWC with saving his and his family's lives: From today's Worcester Telegram online http://www.telegram..../110609734/1116 Once the storm moved east of Springfield the media was all over it. Out of market stations (like Hartford-New Haven and Providence) went wall to wall with the tornado and even cable news stations picked up and ran with the story. For people in Brimfield, Soutbridge, and Monson there was quite a bit of warning on TV and from the NWS. Some people were oblivious but many had an idea something bad was coming. Westfield, Springfield, and West Springfield didn't have that luxury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Once the storm moved east of Springfield the media was all over it. Out of market stations (like Hartford-New Haven and Providence) went wall to wall with the tornado and even cable news stations picked up and ran with the story. For people in Brimfield, Soutbridge, and Monson there was quite a bit of warning on TV and from the NWS. Some people were oblivious but many had an idea something bad was coming. Westfield, Springfield, and West Springfield didn't have that luxury. What did you think of the damage firsthand in Brimfield yesterday? catostrophic huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Once the storm moved east of Springfield the media was all over it. Out of market stations (like Hartford-New Haven and Providence) went wall to wall with the tornado and even cable news stations picked up and ran with the story. For people in Brimfield, Soutbridge, and Monson there was quite a bit of warning on TV and from the NWS. Some people were oblivious but many had an idea something bad was coming. Westfield, Springfield, and West Springfield didn't have that luxury. Yeah... I wonder if what really caught people's attention was when it went over the Connecticut River and the bridge on live TV Still, at least they were using the media for the best possible reason. what a great read some parts of the thread last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 What did you think of the damage firsthand in Brimfield yesterday? catostrophic huh? Yeah we were in the area blocked off by the national guard. I was shocked the number (I counted 4) houses totally swept off their foundation. Nothing left at all on the foundation can look straight down into the basement. I assume the NWS determined that those houses weren't anchored well? I saw screw drivers impaled in trees and 2x4s and sticks impaled in the side of a house. One thing on Haynes Hill Rd on the south side of the damage path there was a roof and an entire house moved to the east of their foundations. On the north side of the track the house was blown off its foundation to the west. Obviously that's what happens with tornadoes and I've seen it with trees before but never with houses myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Yeah we were in the area blocked off by the national guard. I was shocked the number (I counted 4) houses totally swept off their foundation. Nothing left at all on the foundation can look straight down into the basement. I assume the NWS determined that those houses weren't anchored well? I saw screw drivers impaled in trees and 2x4s and sticks impaled in the side of a house. One thing on Haynes Hill Rd on the south side of the damage path there was a roof and an entire house moved to the east of their foundations. On the north side of the track the house was blown off its foundation to the west. Obviously that's what happens with tornadoes and I've seen it with trees before but never with houses myself. Yeah when I was up there on Saturday..they wouldn't let me get to that area where the possible EF4 hit that you're talking about. I saw your posts on Twitter. Were you near the Quinnebog Campground when you went onto Holland Rd by that lake or did you enter from the other end of Holland? Right on that main route into Brimfield from Sturbridge..there was a little street that had like 4 or 5 houses on it. That was where I walked up and took a bunch of pics also where the roof was ripped off and other structural damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Jeez... again with the EF4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Yeah when I was up there on Saturday..they wouldn't let me get to that area where the possible EF4 hit that you're talking about. I saw your posts on Twitter. Were you near the Quinnebog Campground when you went onto Holland Rd by that lake or did you enter from the other end of Holland? Right on that main route into Brimfield from Sturbridge..there was a little street that had like 4 or 5 houses on it. That was where I walked up and took a bunch of pics also where the roof was ripped off and other structural damage It got worse west of the area you described. I think the tornado reached its peak strength on Dean Pond Rd then Dearth Hill Rd and east toward Hollow Rd., Haynes Hill Rd., Wales Rd., and Paige Hill Rd. There's about 3 hills and valleys that were just decimated south of Rt 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 But like you posted, Kev, the campgrounds were awful. That was probably the scariest thing seeing those campers wrapped around trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 But like you posted, Kev, the campgrounds were awful. That was probably the scariest thing seeing those campers wrapped around trees. I saw a couple canoes from the campground 1/4-/1/2 mile down Holland rd..all smashed up amongst the downed trees and wires. I walked all thruout that campground.It was eerie with noone around and just carnage everywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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