Late warning for Springfield

[adamrivers]

WESTFIELD/BARNES,MA (BAF) ASOS reports Tornado KBAF 012024Z 30005KT 1 1/4SM R20/4500VP6000FT FC +TSRA BKN024 BKN030 OVC065 26/22 A2984 RMK FUNNEL CLOUD B23 E24 AO2 LTG DSNT NW-E TSB1958RAB00 P0023

I thought I'd said everything that needed to be said in this thread. But this load of invective mischaracterizes a colleague...which is waaaaaaay past wrong.

Take a look at the observation, posted at the top. It reports a Funnel Cloud in progress, as noted by the initial underlined segment. Fine. It then states that the Funnel Cloud began at H+23 and ENDED at H+24. So which is it? Is the FC in progress, or has it ended? This is the question that faced us in Taunton when we saw this observation. Eleanor called BAF and asked them to correct the observation; if the FC had indeed ended, then it should not be in the weather/obstructions part of the observation. The tower decided that the Funnel Cloud had ended. The corrected observation was then sent. (Strange how that correction hasn't been shown.)

Bill,

Not sure what your issue is. I did not mischaracterize your colleague. The only mischaracterizing that could possibly be interpreted from my statement was questioning why BAF said, upon Eleanor's phone call, that there was no longer a funnel cloud since it was clear that there was. I was not questioning Eleanor and have accepted and been thankful that you guys took the time to come on this board and explain what happened that day. While, yes, I have been critical of the forecast office not issuing the tornado warning until 4:30, I accepted the explanation given and understood how it occurred, due to range folding, monitoring of several storms. You may recall where I mentioned that I, a novice person in the weather department, watched it unfold on ENX radar and asked whether or not other radars were utilized and got a response from Eleanor which answered the question, and certainly made me learn a lot about the subject in question and how these types of things go down.

I apologize for getting the time of the BAF observation wrong. I had it as 4:16pm, probably confused with the time the tornado actually touched down. Again, I apologize. But you completely mischaracterized my post - it seemed to me that Ray's series of posts were trying to take credit for the tornado warning being issued, and additionally undermine or question the excellent field survey that your team did and the documents that were made available to the public regarding the tornado. Since I feel that the survey was excellent, I was defending YOUR office and the job it did as it seemed to me Ray's agenda was to try and go against everything official. If you would like to hang me for that, go ahead.

[weather01089]

Bill,

Not sure what your issue is. I did not mischaracterize your colleague. The only mischaracterizing that could possibly be interpreted from my statement was questioning why BAF said, upon Eleanor's phone call, that there was no longer a funnel cloud since it was clear that there was. I was not questioning Eleanor and have accepted and been thankful that you guys took the time to come on this board and explain what happened that day. While, yes, I have been critical of the forecast office not issuing the tornado warning until 4:30, I accepted the explanation given and understood how it occurred, due to range folding, monitoring of several storms. You may recall where I mentioned that I, a novice person in the weather department, watched it unfold on ENX radar and asked whether or not other radars were utilized and got a response from Eleanor which answered the question, and certainly made me learn a lot about the subject in question and how these types of things go down.

I apologize for getting the time of the BAF observation wrong. I had it as 4:16pm, probably confused with the time the tornado actually touched down. Again, I apologize. But you completely mischaracterized my post - it seemed to me that Ray's series of posts were trying to take credit for the tornado warning being issued, and additionally undermine or question the excellent field survey that your team did and the documents that were made available to the public regarding the tornado. Since I feel that the survey was excellent, I was defending YOUR office and the job it did as it seemed to me Ray's agenda was to try and go against everything official. If you would like to hang me for that, go ahead.

I was on the survey. In any event I cannot take credit for the warning, it was a combination of all that info that resulted in it. I was told at that moment that the warning was actually edited and ready, and he simply hit the button when I called, my piece being one of many. All that info however didnt arrive as early as was being said. BAF may have simply lost sight of the funnel cloud at that point, being close to provin mountain. I do have a picture and video from the Agawam side at 4:24 showing it, and it was pretty impressive. It was still west of provin mtn in westfield still though. The funnel didnt show up well even in West Springfield until the debris started flying.

I do have some issues as to why the warning wasnt issued based on the radar presentation, and the parameters east of it, and the timing, but those have already been said. I never criticized Eleanor or Bill, in fact I had no idea who had done what at the office that day. BOX does have the capacity to watch ENX, and certainly with that kind of presentation (110kts gtg) on that cell, I'd hope they would have called BOX on the phone. But like was said, it was busy and crazy. Look at Bills list of reports.

That 4:16 got attached during the survey based on some info from the Westfield EMA. After the fact though it looks to be a few minutes early. The place they quoted as the first getting hit was only 1/4 mile from Shaker Rd. By the way myself and a couple of the skywarn folks from Westfield and Southwick have been looking futher west in Granville and West Granville. Its remote where this went, and possible there is hidden damage. Nothing seen yet.

Bill, you guys take a lot of flack from a lot of directions no matter which way you go. I'd error on the side of a false warning though, only because the public isnt going to complain if they just get a nasty severe thunderstorm VS a tornado.

Ray

[weather01089]

For the record, I think this was the best surveyed tornado event I've ever witnessed. I have NEVER criticized the survey. All the people involved did a tremendous job and witnessed some hard things to witness. The problem with a post VS a real conversation is that things can get misinterpreted as to what you are trying to say. If the only issue is a few minutes on the start time, that is very minor and only a minute part of what had to be surveryed.

Ray

[bobbutts]

Still can't believe this thing went right through Springfield without a warning. Even harder to believe is the general attitude here that it's no problem and discussing the failure is somehow rude.

This is like a fire dept seeing smoke, then getting a call for a fire, and still waiting for ground truth about said fire to send a crew. It's a complete failure of core function that indicates a major safety issue.

[weather01089]

Still can't believe this thing went right through Springfield without a warning. Even harder to believe is the general attitude here that it's no problem and discussing the failure is somehow rude.

This is like a fire dept seeing smoke, then getting a call for a fire, and still waiting for ground truth about said fire to send a crew. It's a complete failure of core function that indicates a major safety issue.

Well Springfield had about a 2 min lead time warning. And yes, this isnt about making anyone look bad, its about finding out how to stop it from happening again.

Ray

[weather01089]

Well Springfield had about a 2 min lead time warning. And yes, this isnt about making anyone look bad, its about finding out how to stop it from happening again.

Ray

What Bill didnt note in his description of the previous storms north of this one, is that there were several reports of low rotation on the Hampshire county cell from spotters.

Ray