Late warning for Springfield

[weatherwiz]

Per request, this is the video I shot of the wall cloud/funnel on 6/1

I had trouble believing for a min or two that that huge wall cloud was a wall cloud. Wasnt expecting one that wide. Once I could visualize the rotation, on the phone with

the BOX ham coordinator I went pronto.

Ray

Was that taken at the office?

[weather01089]

Was that taken at the office?

It was taken at my new office in Springfield, north of the center.

Ray

[weather01089]

External bandwidth has been such a hot-button issue since the winter storms brought the web servers to their knees, but this event certainly underscores the frustration all offices feel regarding internal bandwidth. Personally, I find it ridiculous that I have to jump through extra steps to see high-resolution data from radar sites that are closer to counties in my CWA than my own radar -- but I do it because I have to.

Now that I think of it, isn't bandwidth the reason they truncated super-res at the lowest three slices? Wouldn't it be nice to see that kind of detail for the whole volume scan?

I dream of a world in which RMRs are obsolete.

I cant push specific blame here, but I can tell you that during the critical time that cell was over far western Hampden Cty, it was severely range folded on BOX.

The other cell, which had a TOR warning up on it over Hampshire Cty, was OK on BOX, but range folded on ENX. You had to watch both.

I was working but managed to see both of them. It was likely quite a balancing act at BOX with the working TOR warning in Hampshire Cty.

Ray

[HoarfrostHubb]

Per request, this is the video I shot of the wall cloud/funnel on 6/1

I had trouble believing for a min or two that that huge wall cloud was a wall cloud. Wasnt expecting one that wide. Once I could visualize the rotation, on the phone with

the BOX ham coordinator I went pronto.

Ray

Very interesting video. Can really see the rotation. I would pee myself

[weather01089]

Very interesting video. Can really see the rotation. I would pee myself

That thought came after, I was way too into it at the time. I was never more than 15 ft from a door to bail into the building basement either.

That being said, I was still nuts. Debris was falling in the parking lot. You can see some of it toward the end.

Im going to put up a version with the timestamp track on it. The TOR warning actually went out right when I called

Ray

[CT Rain]

That thought came after, I was way too into it at the time. I was never more than 15 ft from a door to bail into the building basement either.

That being said, I was still nuts. Debris was falling in the parking lot. You can see some of it toward the end.

Im going to put up a version with the timestamp track on it. The TOR warning actually went out right when I called

Ray

Any idea why the NWS didn't hear about the touchdown in Westfield until so late? The touchdown occurred at 4:17 in a populated area but still not TOR until 4:30. Had they known by 4:20 at least Springfield could have had a couple minutes lead time.

[weatherwiz]

Any idea why the NWS didn't hear about the touchdown in Westfield until so late? The touchdown occurred at 4:17 in a populated area but still not TOR until 4:30. Had they known by 4:20 at least Springfield could have had a couple minutes lead time.

It's kind of a miracle that there weren't more injuries or deaths considering the area it went through and for how long it was on the ground unnoticed

[weather01089]

Any idea why the NWS didn't hear about the touchdown in Westfield until so late? The touchdown occurred at 4:17 in a populated area but still not TOR until 4:30. Had they known by 4:20 at least Springfield could have had a couple minutes lead time.

West Springfield did get a couple of minutes. I have time stamp on the video I took. The TOR warning went out when it was still in the wall cloud stage. it touched down a couple of minutes later. I agree, not the best, but it was something.

Why wasnt it issued earlier? I think BOX is figuring that out. I know many that saw the signature over Granville/West Granville on ENX, but did BOX see it?

Ray

[CT Rain]

West Springfield did get a couple of minutes. I have time stamp on the video I took. The TOR warning went out when it was still in the wall cloud stage. it touched down a couple of minutes later. I agree, not the best, but it was something.

Why wasnt it issued earlier? I think BOX is figuring that out. I know many that saw the signature over Granville/West Granville on ENX, but did BOX see it?

Ray

The touchdown in Westfield was at 4:17 and the warning was issued at 4:30.

Besides the funnel cloud report from BAF at 4:24 I find it baffling (no pun intended) that word didn't reach the NWS that a tornado was on the ground. It wasn't until the live camera shot from WWLP around 4:31 or so with the tornado crossing the river into Springfield when it seemed we had "ground truth".

Not sure what the break down in communication was between people/law enforcement/emergency management in Westfield and West Springfield was in those 13 minutes. A strongly worded warning at 4:25 with info such as a tornado is on the ground causing significant damage and moving straight toward Springfield could have helped the media get the word out of how dangerous a situation was even few minutes earlier.

[weather01089]

The touchdown in Westfield was at 4:17 and the warning was issued at 4:30.

Besides the funnel cloud report from BAF at 4:24 I find it baffling (no pun intended) that word didn't reach the NWS that a tornado was on the ground. It wasn't until the live camera shot from WWLP around 4:31 or so with the tornado crossing the river into Springfield when it seemed we had "ground truth".

Not sure what the break down in communication was between people/law enforcement/emergency management in Westfield and West Springfield was in those 13 minutes. A strongly worded warning at 4:25 with info such as a tornado is on the ground causing significant damage and moving straight toward Springfield could have helped the media get the word out of how dangerous a situation was even few minutes earlier.

Well something is wrong with that time. Its 4.5 air miles from where the tornado hit in Westfield (Off shaker rd), to where it hit in West Springfield.

At 40 mph, 4:17 doesnt work.. I went outside immediately after BOX got word from westfield, which was sent to me in the chat room we were all in. Ill get the time/date stamped version of the video, edit it and post it on youtube.

I observed a bit before I called on the phone, to be sure it was really a wall cloud and not scud. It really did look too big to be a wall cloud. It became obvious after a short time though that it was a hhuge rotating wall cloud.

At 4:30 it was still in the "wall cloud" stage, as you will see in the video. They issued the warning at that point. They had ground truth when I saw debris, I was on the phone with them. They issued a severe weather statement about

a minute after the warning mentioning the sighting.

Ray

[HoarfrostHubb]

Was it on the ground in Westfield and then lifted?

[weather01089]

At 4:30 it was still in the "wall cloud" stage, as you will see in the video. They issued the warning at that point. They had ground truth when I saw debris, I was on the phone with them. They issued a severe weather statement about

a minute after the warning mentioning the sighting.

Ray

I put up the video with the time stamp overlayed.

Ray

[weatherwiz]

I put up the video with the time stamp overlayed.

Ray

Where's the link?

[ineedsnow]

when it touched down in westfield the warning should have been issued i heard the warning when i was between exit 12 and 13 on 91s and a minute later it was in front of me im sure they had reports from westfield way before that they did a crappy job on this one in my opinion!!!

[weather01089]

Was it on the ground in Westfield and then lifted?

It "skipped" hitting the ground in Agawam a couple times. It was never off the ground for more than 2 miles, so its considered one track..

Once it hit West Springfield, it was pretty solid all the way east.

Ray

[cdmwx]

I think the media played a major role in warning people about this cell, whether or not there was an NWS warning. It seems that most around here were watching the news - all three main Springfield stations had live skycams up showing the tornado going through Springfield.

My real warning here in Monson was hearing and seeing debris from the tornado after having seen it on WWLP minutes earlier. It hit about 1/2 mile to my south, but had I not been in the basement I would've been able to see it. I saw some debris in the southwest sky and headed inside. Hearing the "freight train" was also a big tipoff...

(This is Chris, MonsonWeather back on EUSWX btw).

[HoarfrostHubb]

Glad you are back MonsonWeather/Chris

Hopefully a once in a lifetime event

[cdmwx]

Glad you are back MonsonWeather/Chris

Hopefully a once in a lifetime event

Thanks - it was quite an amazing experience. To think how lucky we were, had the tornado been 1/2 mile further north my house might not be here. Looking east from the top of my street (hill) I can see distant tree damage in the hills toward Brimfield. I live in the valley everyone's been talking about and my street is the at base of the "western" hills here in Monson. Basically, the path ended up to my south and eventually to my due east.

[Turtle]

I think the media played a major role in warning people about this cell, whether or not there was an NWS warning. It seems that most around here were watching the news - all three main Springfield stations had live skycams up showing the tornado going through Springfield.

My real warning here in Monson was hearing and seeing debris from the tornado after having seen it on WWLP minutes earlier. It hit about 1/2 mile to my south, but had I not been in the basement I would've been able to see it. I saw some debris in the southwest sky and headed inside. Hearing the "freight train" was also a big tipoff...

(This is Chris, MonsonWeather back on EUSWX btw).

Thanks - it was quite an amazing experience. To think how lucky we were, had the tornado been 1/2 mile further north my house might not be here. Looking east from the top of my street (hill) I can see distant tree damage in the hills toward Brimfield. I live in the valley everyone's been talking about and my street is the at base of the "western" hills here in Monson. Basically, the path ended up to my south and eventually to my due east.

Welcome back, Chris, especially with everything that your neighbors are going through.

I was out there the day after on the NWS storm survey. It was simply breathtaking to see the damage, especially in Monson and Brimfield. I am thankful you and your home are OK. My heart broke speaking to the folks on Bethany Road that lost their homes, as well as along the route east to Brimfield, Sturbridge and Southbridge.

BillB and I worked the "Extreme Weather Day" at the Museum of Science last Saturday (6/11), and we met a teacher from Monson. We spoke with her a long time. She told us that 7 of her students lost their homes. We are hopeful to visit with the students in the fall.

I hope things start turning around for your neighbors in Monson.

--Turtle

[cdmwx]

Welcome back, Chris, especially with everything that your neighbors are going through.

I was out there the day after on the NWS storm survey. It was simply breathtaking to see the damage, especially in Monson and Brimfield. I am thankful you and your home are OK. My heart broke speaking to the folks on Bethany Road that lost their homes, as well as along the route east to Brimfield, Sturbridge and Southbridge.

BillB and I worked the "Extreme Weather Day" at the Museum of Science last Saturday (6/11), and we met a teacher from Monson. We spoke with her a long time. She told us that 7 of her students lost their homes. We are hopeful to visit with the students in the fall.

I hope things start turning around for your neighbors in Monson.

--Turtle

Hi there Turtle/Eleanor

That section of town was definitely the hardest hit. The area of Stewart Ave. where the tornado rose up the hill was quite a sight, where the houses were totally demolished. I was down in that neighborhood quite a bit in the days following the storm bringing around food/water with some friends - we graduated on the 8th, originally was supposed to be the 3rd. It has been amazing to see how many people have come around to help, people from town as well as from out of town. The people in the affected areas seemed to have been very grateful that they are alive and that they have been helped so immensely.

Being so interested in the weather, I've always wanted severe weather to hit here. I certainly never expected this! I'll have an interesting perspective next year (going to Lyndon State for atmos. sci).

[weather01089]

when it touched down in westfield the warning should have been issued i heard the warning when i was between exit 12 and 13 on 91s and a minute later it was in front of me im sure they had reports from westfield way before that they did a crappy job on this one in my opinion!!!

Well the Westfield report (s) didnt get to NWS until around 5:28 based on what we saw. And the 5:17 alleged time is not correct based on what we observed in West Springfield and Agawam. So while I think something was wrong with whatever went on with the radar and reasoning, the reaction to the reports was as good as possible. I was on the phone at 4:29 with the wall cloud, and they issued the warning right away.

Ray

[weather01089]

Well the Westfield report (s) didnt get to NWS until around 5:28 based on what we saw. And the 5:17 alleged time is not correct based on what we observed in West Springfield and Agawam. So while I think something was wrong with whatever went on with the radar and reasoning, the reaction to the reports was as good as possible. I was on the phone at 4:29 with the wall cloud, and they issued the warning right away.

Ray

Sorry 5:28 and 5:17 are 4:17 and 4:28 my error.

Ray

[weather01089]

Where's the link?

Ray

[adamrivers]

Well the Westfield report (s) didnt get to NWS until around 5:28 based on what we saw. And the 5:17 alleged time is not correct based on what we observed in West Springfield and Agawam. So while I think something was wrong with whatever went on with the radar and reasoning, the reaction to the reports was as good as possible. I was on the phone at 4:29 with the wall cloud, and they issued the warning right away.

Ray

Ray,

Your constant misrepresentation of the facts is frankly annoying. Barnes put FC in their ASOS at 4:16. We have seen in posts from Eleanor that was retracted by them upon her phone call - not sure why as it has been shown in post-tornado review that there was, indeed, a tornado on the ground at that point. Everyone on this board, including myself, knew that there was a tornado on the ground, which there was, in Westfield. There were tweets confirming there was a tornado on the ground well before the warning was issued at 4:30... I have traveled nearly the entire length of the tornado in question and the only places where it seemed to lift at all were over West Springfield near the Westfield line, and again briefly when it crossed the Westfield River into Agawam. Other than that, it was on the ground.

It's fine to have an agenda, which your posts clearly do, but at least have the correct facts and use them to support your position.

[CT Rain]

Here are the radar grabs from ENX at 4:11 pm and 4:16 pm.

The 4:17 time from the NWS seems spot on to me with a touchdown just south of downtown Westfield.

[BillB]

WESTFIELD/BARNES,MA (BAF) ASOS reports Tornado KBAF 012024Z 30005KT 1 1/4SM R20/4500VP6000FT FC +TSRA BKN024 BKN030 OVC065 26/22 A2984 RMK FUNNEL CLOUD B23 E24 AO2 LTG DSNT NW-E TSB1958RAB00 P0023

Ray,

Your constant misrepresentation of the facts is frankly annoying. Barnes put FC in their ASOS at 4:16. We have seen in posts from Eleanor that was retracted by them upon her phone call - not sure why as it has been shown in post-tornado review that there was, indeed, a tornado on the ground at that point. Everyone on this board, including myself, knew that there was a tornado on the ground, which there was, in Westfield. There were tweets confirming there was a tornado on the ground well before the warning was issued at 4:30... I have traveled nearly the entire length of the tornado in question and the only places where it seemed to lift at all were over West Springfield near the Westfield line, and again briefly when it crossed the Westfield River into Agawam. Other than that, it was on the ground.

It's fine to have an agenda, which your posts clearly do, but at least have the correct facts and use them to support your position.

I thought I'd said everything that needed to be said in this thread. But this load of invective mischaracterizes a colleague...which is waaaaaaay past wrong.

Take a look at the observation, posted at the top. It reports a Funnel Cloud in progress, as noted by the initial underlined segment. Fine. It then states that the Funnel Cloud began at H+23 and ENDED at H+24. So which is it? Is the FC in progress, or has it ended? This is the question that faced us in Taunton when we saw this observation. Eleanor called BAF and asked them to correct the observation; if the FC had indeed ended, then it should not be in the weather/obstructions part of the observation. The tower decided that the Funnel Cloud had ended. The corrected observation was then sent. (Strange how that correction hasn't been shown.)

Let us not neglect the whole chronology up to that storm:

252pm Tornado Warning issued for Cheshire County ... subsequent ground truth ... several reports of large hail

309 pm Severe Tstm Warning issued for several segements of NW MA ... subsequent ground truth ... two reports of straight line wind, more reports of large hail

324 pm Severe Tstm Warning issued for parts of Cheshire and Hillsborough .. subsquent ground truth ... reports of large hail

328 pm Tornado Warning issued for parts of Franklin-Hampshire-Hampden ... subsequent ground truth ... reports of large hail

332 pm Severe Tstm Warning issued for parts of Worcester-Middlesex-Cheshire ... subsequent ground truth ... Nothing!

405 pm Tornado Warning issued for parts of 4 counties around Quabbin ... subsequent ground truth ... Large hail, one report of wind damage in Hadley at 415 pm.

And then there were...

418 pm Severe Tstm Warning issued for parts of several counties including Springfield-Holyoke-Westfield. This warning included a statement to the effect that a tornado was possible.

430 pm Tornado Warning issued for Springfield, et al. We all now know what happened.

It is now June 21st, and time for everyone to move on.

This is my final statement on this thread.

[weather01089]

Here are the radar grabs from ENX at 4:11 pm and 4:16 pm.

The 4:17 time from the NWS seems spot on to me with a touchdown just south of downtown Westfield.

That radar image is west of where it touched down, which was SE of the center closer to the Agawam border.

The BAF ob of a funnel cloud was at 4:28, and we have a picture from Agawam showing the wall/funnel west of Provin Mtn in Westfield still at 4:24.

I observed it first at about 4:27 over Agawam moving toward west springfield, and got on the phone with BOX at 4:28 as you can see in my video.

This doesnt minimize the fact that the tornado warning should have been issued earlier, with the radar presentation alone, but they didnt get the damage

reports at the time that is being claimed.

If you go back to 4:02 and 4:06 on ENX, you will see at first the minimal couplet, then the 4:06 was getting scary. I made comments to various people on AIM at that time.

We got a report from westfield looking toward that shaker rd area at 4:24 as well.

There is also a video on youtube from Agawam looking west at it that also has the time 4:24 listed on it.

While I think without doubt the warning probably should have gone out earlier, Im not going to blame anyone for ignoring ground reports they didnt have.

Ray

[weather01089]

Here are the 4:06 and 4:16 images. You can see the marker "little river" on the 4:16 image which is right at shaker rd.

Its still west of there at that moment.

That being said, the 4:06 was the second scan showing a good couplet.

Ray

[weather01089]

Ray,

Your constant misrepresentation of the facts is frankly annoying. Barnes put FC in their ASOS at 4:16. We have seen in posts from Eleanor that was retracted by them upon her phone call - not sure why as it has been shown in post-tornado review that there was, indeed, a tornado on the ground at that point. Everyone on this board, including myself, knew that there was a tornado on the ground, which there was, in Westfield. There were tweets confirming there was a tornado on the ground well before the warning was issued at 4:30... I have traveled nearly the entire length of the tornado in question and the only places where it seemed to lift at all were over West Springfield near the Westfield line, and again briefly when it crossed the Westfield River into Agawam. Other than that, it was on the ground.

It's fine to have an agenda, which your posts clearly do, but at least have the correct facts and use them to support your position.

I have no agenda nor am I condoning the fact that the warning wasnt issued earlier. But base it on the right reason. They didnt get the westfield info until 4:27, and upon hearing it, the person on AIM with me at the office had me go look.

I will wholeheartedly agree with you they should have had a warming out. Probably with the 4:06 image from ENX. But I know the timing of when they got the alleged ground info. The initial info was vague as well. Read my posts carefully, there is no agenda.

My point is that my complaint would be on the radar data, not on the report.

KBAF OB:

,KBAF 012028Z 00000KT 2SM R20/4500VP6000FT FC -TSRA SCT024 BKN030 OVC065 26/23 A2983 RMK FUNNEL CLOUD B23 E24 AO2 VIS 3/4V5 LTG DSNT NW-E TSB1958RAB00 P0023,

note: Funnel cloud B 23 E 24 and they put the ob out at 2028.

Ray

[weather01089]

BY the way for the record, WE (Skywarn) got the report of the "tornado on the ground" in westfield, from a public safety dispatcher in another town that heard the radio call. It was in chat, with the timestamp of 4:26. I just reread the log to refresh my memory. That report was passed to BOX at that time, and it was the first info they had on any ground truth. The only info was the third hand radio call.

Simultaneously to that, we had a ham from westfield observe a funnel cloud looking approximately at shaker rd. We have his callsign. Right after that the floodgates opened.

MEMA was on the chat and offered to make inquries to the state police..

I am not at liberty to post the chat dialog, but all of it is timestamped, and saved by multiple independant people.

Again, you are free to come look at any of this. I have no agenda and will be the first to be a critic when its due, and have been in the past. Matter of fact, I'd love to show all of this stuff to anyone that wants to see it. I took video seconds after the tornado was finished in West Springfield. It hit within 2 blocks of my home.

Ray