Lawn/Garden/Golf Thread

[LMolineuxLM1]

Hmmm, I said that?

Someone is gonna wind up in a hole for sure over this one. lol.

[MGorse]

Someone is gonna wind up in a hole for sure over this one. lol.

Hmmm, thanks for the idea.

[NaoPos]

Tony and mike told me that for every hole i par they will buy me a drink.

Good thing I'm driving.

You'll probably have a career day.

[tombo82685]

here you go guys, took this on our first hole on the green this morning....

[chrisNJ]

Should we be thinking of spring fertilizing early this year due to the warm winter? May be a stupid question but I am starting to get in the mind of when I should do this. Early April?

[tombo82685]

Should we be thinking of spring fertilizing early this year due to the warm winter? May be a stupid question but I am starting to get in the mind of when I should do this. Early April?

Chris, i would wait till 2 mowings, its still going to be about mid april or so. When you do fertilize put down a very light rate. You don't want to nuke the grass.

[catoctin wx]

Tombo,

I had my lawn reseeded last fall and it looks great this spring. I put down the winterizer in early december, although it probably wasn't needed considering the winter

I just mowed the south facing areas today, since they were growing already. My question is this. I want to put down some crab grass preventer before it gets going, since I've had problems with that in the past. I also want to overseed to fill in some bare spots. I need to put down the seed about 2 weeks before the crab grass preventer right? Would this be a good time to do this considering how warm March is looking to be? I figure in 2-3 weeks things will be growing quickly in MD.

Thanks!

[tombo82685]

Tombo,

I had my lawn reseeded last fall and it looks great this spring. I put down the winterizer in early december, although it probably wasn't needed considering the winter

I just mowed the south facing areas today, since they were growing already. My question is this. I want to put down some crab grass preventer before it gets going, since I've had problems with that in the past. I also want to overseed to fill in some bare spots. I need to put down the seed about 2 weeks before the crab grass preventer right? Would this be a good time to do this considering how warm March is looking to be? I figure in 2-3 weeks things will be growing quickly in MD.

Thanks!

With you being in fredrick, md i would say you have basically the same hardiness temperature as we do in se pa. Rule of themub for crabgrass preventer is once the forsythia blooms then put it down after that. You still have a while to go. Soil temperatures need to be 55 degrees or higher for 3 consecutive days for crabgrass to start germinating. I usually put it down in late april early may. This year may be a little earlier. But just use the forsythia bloom as your guide.

How big are the bar areas? like smaller than 3 ft diameter? As you probably know crabgrass preventer restricts the growth of grass seedlings. A lot of people run into this problem. They put seed down then put the crabgrass stuff down and never get any sprouting.

Glad to hear everything worked out well.

[catoctin wx]

With you being in fredrick, md i would say you have basically the same hardiness temperature as we do in se pa. Rule of themub for crabgrass preventer is once the forsythia blooms then put it down after that. You still have a while to go. Soil temperatures need to be 55 degrees or higher for 3 consecutive days for crabgrass to start germinating. I usually put it down in late april early may. This year may be a little earlier. But just use the forsythia bloom as your guide.

How big are the bar areas? like smaller than 3 ft diameter? As you probably know crabgrass preventer restricts the growth of grass seedlings. A lot of people run into this problem. They put seed down then put the crabgrass stuff down and never get any sprouting.

Glad to hear everything worked out well.

The bare areas are fairly small. Really I was looking to put down the seed because some of the areas are a bit thin.

So if I put down the seed, how long would you suggest I wait before putting down the crab grass preventor.

Thanks again

Just for some perspective, here are the before and after between last fall and today.

Fall 2011

March 2012

[tombo82685]

The bare areas are fairly small. Really I was looking to put down the seed because some of the areas are a bit thin.

So if I put down the seed, how long would you suggest I wait before putting down the crab grass preventor.

Thanks again

Just for some perspective, here are the before and after between last fall and today.

Fall 2011

March 2012

Lawn looks great, once it really starts to grow it should look even better. What i would do is put your pre emerge down like a week or two after the forsythia blooms. Then once you are really starting to mow like when its like twice a week kind of ordeal. I would go into the bare areas and really scarify the soil aggressively then seed. The way how pre emerge works is the granular pellet is washed into the soil and creates like a barrier. The seedling once germinates it takes up the pre emerge and inhibits further root formation and the plant dies. When you scarify the soil vigorously you will disperse that barrier so the plant can grow.,

[catoctin wx]

Lawn looks great, once it really starts to grow it should look even better. What i would do is put your pre emerge down like a week or two after the forsythia blooms. Then once you are really starting to mow like when its like twice a week kind of ordeal. I would go into the bare areas and really scarify the soil aggressively then seed. The way how pre emerge works is the granular pellet is washed into the soil and creates like a barrier. The seedling once germinates it takes up the pre emerge and inhibits further root formation and the plant dies. When you scarify the soil vigorously you will disperse that barrier so the plant can grow.,

Sounds like a good plan. Thanks Tombo!

[Harbourton]

Old female deer is slowly passing away in my back yard. Kinda sad.

[Lady Di]

With the beautiful day yesterday the garden got leveled out and is ready for tilling. March the 11th! Unreal, although I do remember planting early back in 2002.

Also we pulled some weeds\brush away and I was surprised at how dry it was. I just mentioned last week I couldn't foresee our area going into a drought situation, but after being out there it won't take too long for things to become even drier if we don't get sufficient rain this spring.

[Grothar]

With the beautiful day yesterday the garden got leveled out and is ready for tilling. March the 11th! Unreal, although I do remember planting early back in 2002.

Also we pulled some weeds\brush away and I was surprised at how dry it was. I just mentioned last week I couldn't foresee our area going into a drought situation, but after being out there it won't take too long for things to become even drier if we don't get sufficient rain this spring.

Earlier quotes with several members laughing at me. They did this with Irene last year too. Just watch it carefully

E PA/NJ/DE/NE MD/Elko, NV Banter thread

Posted by Grothar on 6 March 2012 - 04:41 PM in Philadelphia Region

The first of many red flag days to come was issued for today. Its only going to get worse- Drought watch by Memorial Day for parts of our area appears to be a reality. The little rainfall we have had will not replenish the groundwater because we have had no snow cover this winter and what has fallen from the skies has ran off already. The streams are currently at base flow now and will continue to drop big time going into summer. The 90 day outlooks appear to be cool and damp but that does not mean s***. Cool and damp only gives us drizzle and cooler than normal days. I see us in a pattern like we are in now- 80 degree days for 2-3 days and 60 degree days for 4-5 days with little moisture falling upon us with the passing cool fronts. As long as the the GOM moisture is shut off in a dying La Nina Pattern going to neutral, the moisture influx to our area is gone. The only hope is a tropical moisture in August - October. Until then, we will rely thunderstorms scattered in nature. Severe weather is possible with each cool frontal passage but it will the hit quick or dying out t- storms. Some have posted of cloudy and dreary days to come- not good for outdoor activities but also not good for cutting into rainfall deficits. The stabilized atmosphere has been to hard to bust through with all precip events this past year and the the same pattern will go on. This weather pattern that will be going into will be like southern ca with cool and dreary mornings and warm afternoons. The only saving grace is if a stalled front in May hangs along the EC with s/w running along it. To me right now, thats like wishing for an HECS. Why should that happen now unless we go into a real deep -NAO which we have not had in almost a year

1234abc, on 11 February 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

Interestingly, people were saying this to me back in October too.

I know what you mean. The potential is there and you want to believe but there is so much negativity in the reliability of these weather models right now for our region that it is like talking to the wall. Do not give up. I warn as well about potentials. I can tell you right now that the potential for a significant drought and groundwater shortages exist for our entire region this summer. The lack of snow and snow cover is not a laughing matter and many businesses and resident rely on ground water. There should be more talk right now on this board about the significant precip as a whole. We are not only in a snow drought but a rain drought the last few months Where are the analogs for that on this subforum? Posts like it "its a tundra" is correct. The soil profile is not even completely frozen and meanwhile the moisture is being sucked right out of it. That is not good for the varieties of vegetation in our area. Unless we get significant precip (snow or rain) in the next four - eight weeks, drought watches will be issued by May because the recharge cycle will be lost for the summer months

[SmokeEater]

Earlier quotes with several members laughing at me. They did this with Irene last year too. Just watch it carefully

E PA/NJ/DE/NE MD/Elko, NV Banter thread

Posted by Grothar on 6 March 2012 - 04:41 PM in Philadelphia Region

The first of many red flag days to come was issued for today. Its only going to get worse- Drought watch by Memorial Day for parts of our area appears to be a reality. The little rainfall we have had will not replenish the groundwater because we have had no snow cover this winter and what has fallen from the skies has ran off already. The streams are currently at base flow now and will continue to drop big time going into summer. The 90 day outlooks appear to be cool and damp but that does not mean s***. Cool and damp only gives us drizzle and cooler than normal days. I see us in a pattern like we are in now- 80 degree days for 2-3 days and 60 degree days for 4-5 days with little moisture falling upon us with the passing cool fronts. As long as the the GOM moisture is shut off in a dying La Nina Pattern going to neutral, the moisture influx to our area is gone. The only hope is a tropical moisture in August - October. Until then, we will rely thunderstorms scattered in nature. Severe weather is possible with each cool frontal passage but it will the hit quick or dying out t- storms. Some have posted of cloudy and dreary days to come- not good for outdoor activities but also not good for cutting into rainfall deficits. The stabilized atmosphere has been to hard to bust through with all precip events this past year and the the same pattern will go on. This weather pattern that will be going into will be like southern ca with cool and dreary mornings and warm afternoons. The only saving grace is if a stalled front in May hangs along the EC with s/w running along it. To me right now, thats like wishing for an HECS. Why should that happen now unless we go into a real deep -NAO which we have not had in almost a year

1234abc, on 11 February 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

Interestingly, people were saying this to me back in October too.

I know what you mean. The potential is there and you want to believe but there is so much negativity in the reliability of these weather models right now for our region that it is like talking to the wall. Do not give up. I warn as well about potentials. I can tell you right now that the potential for a significant drought and groundwater shortages exist for our entire region this summer. The lack of snow and snow cover is not a laughing matter and many businesses and resident rely on ground water. There should be more talk right now on this board about the significant precip as a whole. We are not only in a snow drought but a rain drought the last few months Where are the analogs for that on this subforum? Posts like it "its a tundra" is correct. The soil profile is not even completely frozen and meanwhile the moisture is being sucked right out of it. That is not good for the varieties of vegetation in our area. Unless we get significant precip (snow or rain) in the next four - eight weeks, drought watches will be issued by May because the recharge cycle will be lost for the summer months

Just like how you nailed your winter forecast, right? Don't get too cocky with Irene, if you keep going all in on something, you have to be right once. You have very knowledgable mets in our subforum explaining to you why you are wrong, yet you continue on. Yes, the topsoil and the fuels on top of it are dry, hence why we are getting elevated fire weather dangers, to a point. This happens every year around this time, nothing unusual. It only takes a couple of days after a decent rainstorm for the drying out process to happen. This is just like some of the fire wx people, who say this is going to be the year we get a massive wildfire down here in SJ, and it never happens, and they say it year after year. We are nowhere near getting drought watches in the next 2-3 months, let alone anytime soon. The groundwater table is still so high, especially in SJ and E PA, from all the rain we got last year, it's ridiculous. Why do you think we have numerous posters posting that their yards are still soaked completely through? And wasn't it just 3-4 months ago you posting about how soaked your yard was? That doesn't just go away overnight.

[tombo82685]

also, it takes a lot more for drought conditions to come on this time of year compared to summer. The ET rates are very low which is why from october to march yards never dry out because their is nothing uptaking the water. Also, the freeze and thaw cycle... Also, want to say, the lack of snow cover imho has nothing to do with if we get dry conditions. You can have limited snow cover and an insanely wet year. The fact is we just haven't been getting many systems over the region regardless if its snow or rain.

[Boch23]

^{When I think drought I think when i was litte and you could walk around a good portion of the Springton Reservoir. Not a couple weeks without rain.}

[Grothar]

Yes smokeater again I was was partially wrong with my winter forecast but so were many others including pro forecasters. I really thought we would get normal snowfall and colder temperatures based on La Nina dying in the latter portion of the winter and I was expecting the patterns to go more neutral and YOU KNOW WHAT, I WAS WRONG. CASE CLOSED. I leave it up because it is still winter for another week. Please stop rubbing my winter forecast from my blog in my face for I do not see you doing this to others on this board.By the way, my blog was posted in September, not late November- a big difference in predicting the upcoming winter weather. The lesson I learned was not to go out a limb and produce a winter forecast so early and post it for everyone to see. IMHO the October storm pretty much set up the pattern for which their was no return. No one predicted a Halloween snowstorm event and none of the long range weather patterns indicated there would be a snowstorm.

As far as the drought comments, I agree with the soil litter comments. However I absolutely disagree with the water table and ground water comments. The groundwater tables are down considerably in Eastern PA.. Southern NJ is a different story with their sandy soils. Anyway, the base flows in the creeks in the Lehigh Valley are actually below normal based on the limestone geology for this time of the year, which is found in many parts of Eastern PA. Base flow is not the same as runoff flow. The shale geology in PA and NJ is not as bad but it is getting there too. Many people think that just because the first six inches to a foot of topsoil is saturated, that it means that we are not in a drought. Many of the commentators on this site say the ground is still saturated in their yard. The reason for this is either they are near or in a wetland, they have hydric or hydric component soils in the yard, or they have a distinct fragipan layer in their soil. Hydric or hydric component soil types are usually found in or near wetlands. But many times when homes are built especially in the 50's - 70's the developer would mix in these type of soils within your normal topsoil just to get rid of them or because they ran out of clean topsoil when final grading the property. Then the yard would not drain properly and the homeowner would get storm water runoff directed toward the homes foundation or standing water in the yard. Lastly a fragipan will act just like Hydric soils in many instances. see links

http://www.greenwash.../wet-homes.html

http://www.water-res...er/fragipan.pdf

http://www.google.co...o/basic_int/run

[chrisNJ]

I agree with Grothar on the groundwater levels being down. I do environmental consulting work throughout PA and NJ and at some of my sites, levels have dropped over a foot since last fall. This includes overburden and bedrock aquifers.

Yes smokeater again I was was partially wrong with my winter forecast but so were many others including pro forecasters. I really thought we would get normal snowfall and colder temperatures based on La Nina dying in the latter portion of the winter and I was expecting the patterns to go more neutral and YOU KNOW WHAT, I WAS WRONG. CASE CLOSED. I leave it up because it is still winter for another week.

Please stop rubbing my winter forecast from my blog in my face for I do not see you doing this to others on this board.By the way, my blog was posted in September, not late November- a big difference in predicting the upcoming winter weather. The lesson I learned was not to go out a limb and produce a winter forecast so early and post it for everyone to see. IMHO the October storm pretty much set up the pattern for which their was no return. No one predicted a Halloween snowstorm event and none of the long range weather patterns indicated there would be a snowstorm.

As far as the drought comments, I agree with the soil litter comments. However I absolutely disagree with the water table and ground water comments. The groundwater tables are down considerably in Eastern PA.. Southern NJ is a different story with their sandy soils. Anyway, the base flows in the creeks in the Lehigh Valley are actually below normal based on the limestone geology for this time of the year, which is found in many parts of Eastern PA. Base flow is not the same as runoff flow. The shale geology in PA and NJ is not as bad but it is getting there too. Many people think that just because the first six inches to a foot of topsoil is saturated, that it means that we are not in a drought. Many of the commentators on this site say the ground is still saturated in their yard. The reason for this is either they are near or in a wetland, they have hydric or hydric component soils in the yard, or they have a distinct fragipan layer in their soil. Hydric or hydric component soil types are usually found in or near wetlands. But many times when homes are built especially in the 50's - 70's the developer would mix in these type of soils within your normal topsoil just to get rid of them or because they ran out of clean topsoil when final grading the property. Then the yard would not drain properly and the homeowner would get storm water runoff directed toward the homes foundation or standing water in the yard. Lastly a fragipan will act just like Hydric soils in many instances. see links

http://www.greenwash.../wet-homes.html

http://www.water-res...er/fragipan.pdf

http://www.google.co...o/basic_int/run

[hazwoper]

While base flow of streams in SEPA is down, groundwater levels are certainly not currently in drought state.

http://pa.water.usgs...tors/composite/

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/pa/nwis/rt

[Grothar]

While base flow of streams in SEPA is down, groundwater levels are certainly not currently in drought state.

http://pa.water.usgs...tors/composite/

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/pa/nwis/rt

Again, let me clarify this for you. yes groundwater is not in a drought state for SEPA because of the shale type of geology involved- slower percolation through the bedrock etc. On the links that you provided, Lehigh Northampton and Berks, Carbon etc are under a drought watch. Why you may ask only these counties? They are primarily composed of trexler shale and limestone geology and soils. This type of Geology for groundwater tables are directly reflected and mirrored in stream base flows and limestone quarries. When the stream base flow is high, so are the groundwater tables. Why I am so concerned? Because a large percentage of what SE PA and the NE region of the US rely on for their bottled drinking water is manufactured and packaged in Fogelsville, Lehigh County. Now lets see, what do I mean by this? Well for starters, Samuel Adams Brewery with their free tours. Some more you say? Pierre, Niagara, Nestle, Deer Park, Coca Cola Syrup and bottling and many other off name water brands. the odds are you probably drank one of these brands in the last year. Lehigh County has its own state of the art pre-treatment sewage facility for all of these plants. This groundwater withdrawals do not even include all the private and public wells for Lehigh County in this area. It is literally the Marcellus Shale of PA and the US for drinking water and employs thousands of people and brings millions of dollars to our area and to your area And just think, it all started with Pierre in 1993 who realized the clean water wealth of our area and built their only US bottling facility. When the water tables are down- it is very serious for Lehigh County and for PA. AND THIS IS NOT DROUGHT MONGERING just a concern

[LMolineuxLM1]

So who here is ready to do their first lawn cut of the year? My back yard is ready almost for it. Might be doing it either this weekend or next week.

[Parsley]

So who here is ready to do their first lawn cut of the year? My back yard is ready almost for it. Might be doing it either this weekend or next week.

Probably by next weekend.

[SmokeEater]

US Drought outlook. Defintely nowhere near drought status anytime soon, going off this map.

[Grothar]

US Drought outlook. Defintely nowhere near drought status anytime soon, going off this map.

I do not rely on NOAA maps for droughts. Sorry but they are too generalistic and are primarily used for long term weather guidance. I have attached a link to the USGS because they are the experts and its their business to accurately monitor stream levels because of all the gauges they have on our streams. Their maps indicate we are now in deep sh** especially if the weather patterns do not change in the upcoming weeks.

http://waterwatch.us...index.php?id=ww

[tombo82685]

Grothar, i agree with all the facts you have posted and i think everyone else here can agree we need some rain because we haven't had much. The only issue i had with your first statement you posted in the banter thread where you say drought watch by memorial day looks to be a reality. We should all know and you should know to how fast weather can change on a dime. What occurs this week could be vastly different from next week. Thats the only issue i have. Look at last summer at how dry we were till mid august then someone turned on the faucet.

[Boch23]

Grothar, i agree with all the facts you have posted and i think everyone else here can agree we need some rain because we haven't had much. The only issue i had with your first statement you posted in the banter thread where you say drought watch by memorial day looks to be a reality. We should all know and you should know to how fast weather can change on a dime. What occurs this week could be vastly different from next week. Thats the only issue i have. Look at last summer at how dry we were till mid august then someone turned on the faucet.

Yeah last two summers i feel like we had extended dry periods with the only rain being from thunderstorms that were few and far between until late august early sept.

[Grothar]

Grothar, i agree with all the facts you have posted and i think everyone else here can agree we need some rain because we haven't had much. The only issue i had with your first statement you posted in the banter thread where you say drought watch by memorial day looks to be a reality. We should all know and you should know to how fast weather can change on a dime. What occurs this week could be vastly different from next week. Thats the only issue i have. Look at last summer at how dry we were till mid august then someone turned on the faucet.

I agree with you tombo . I am hoping the weather pattern does change by memorial day. The only problem I have is that we were all saying that the weather pattern was going to change in December and it never did and we got screwed for the rest of winter. It will take a major game changer to get us out of this dry pattern and I really do not see that happening any time soon. That faucet got shut with the the cutoff valve closed.

Typically with this current pattern a cool front comes through, drops less than .5 inch of rain , then warms up again with a dry SW wind. Hell, we cannot even get a t-storm with heavy precip to cross over the mts without dying out right now. We also cannot get a deep negative NAO to establish. To make matters worse, a backdoor cold front like we had today should have produced significant rain and t- storms with the temp gradient the way was across our area. If this was mid summer maybe? The point I am trying to make is that the available moisture is not aligning itself with actual frontal passage in our area and we are getting screwed out t-storms and long duration rains. This is not normal for this time of the year and is more typical of early October weather patterns. That is why I said about drought watches being issued by Memorial day because most people associate that day as first day of summer. Believe me, many hydrologists are watching this unfolding scenario carefully because it has been a long time since we have experienced absolutely no snowfall and insignificant rainfall to recharge our groundwater tables. I believe in the middle 1960's we experienced similar conditions

[FUCK JOE BIDEN]

forsythia starting to bloom, earliest I can remember, however I would not put down crabgrass control based on it this year. I do a split app as it is.

[tombo82685]

forsythia starting to bloom, earliest I can remember, however I would not put down crabgrass control based on it this year. I do a split app as it is.

even when the forsythia was on normal bloom in early to mid april you can still wait another 2-3 weeks...i have put it down in early may with no problems. You really don't see crabgrass going till late may june. I just sprayed fairways on wednesday for poa seedhead control with some bifenthrin for hyperodes control and greens were done thursday. Last year i did it day after easter.