2/15-16: Slopocalypse or Bust

[psuhoffman]

33 minutes ago, CAPE said:

Two things can be true at the same time. Not debating the 2 degree warming, but each synoptic setup, although similar, will have some details that are different but important. I'm just not sure this 2 degree difference can be applied across the board. Seems like an oversimplification that doesnt account for the nuances.  The current setup may or may not have had a different(more favorable) outcome in the 1970s. Devil in the details- that hasn't changed. The current airmass is almost entirely Pacific in origin with a significantly negative PNA, while the AO is positive and the NAO is neutral. The only decent cold is to our NE, and no real mechanism to involve it in the storm as it stands. Need better than that to somewhat negate the unfavorable Pacific imo. We needed a stronger low with a better track as we saw in several model cycles a few days ago, and dynamic cooling got the lower levels just cold enough for a paste bomb.

 

It depends where. Even in 1970 this was unlikely to be much snow south of DC and SE of the fall line. But even with this weaker low solution it’s close enough for places like Resiterstown, Frederick, Westminster, Parkton… I think it’s frankly a no brainer that these areas lost some snow. Was it 1” or 3” I dunno. But it’s so close that any colder at all would have made a difference. And we know it was colder. I don’t think it’s that complicated.  And we know we are losing snow.  The numbers bear it out. Our snowfall is declining. So we know for a fact we’re losing some storms. This one seems like a no brainer at least for my area. My wet bulb is 33. I’m going to he raining with a boundary layer of 33-34 for like 5 hours doing which about .3 qpf falls. That’s so marginal any colder at all and I’d be getting 2-3”. Maybe I do get 2” it’s close, but then any colder and it would have been 4”!   Either way I am losing some snow today because it’s warmer. Because this is a perfect example of a borderline temp event where it’s going to tip barely too warm in 2026 and so likely would have tipped cold enough at some point in the past. I dunno if that point is 2000 or 1970 or 1950 or 1930 but at some point this would have been snow, at least up here. 

[Terpeast]

9 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

The sounding is from 6pm. This would have always had to start as rain with the boundary temps. But places NW of the fall line in MD definitely would have had 2-3” of snow if it was 50 years ago. Up here I might eke out 1” maybe and it could have been 3-4” if it was 2f colder. 

For your area and north of 70 for sure, but I don’t think even my area would have even been in play with 2-3f cooler temps

[psuhoffman]

Just now, Terpeast said:

For your area and north of 70 for sure, but I don’t think even my area would have even been in play with 2-3f cooler temps

Maybe you’re right I was mostly focused on this area up here. But there were examples recently for 95. One in 2021. Around the super Bowl. Perfect track little wave. I eeked out 6” of super wet snow up here and 95 was 34-35 during the heavy precip with white rain. They were in the cold sector. The boundary was juts 1-2f too warm. That was better example for 95. This one is a lost snow for up here  

[mdhokie]

37 and rain in Deep Creek. Snowpack is taking a hit. Good thing I didn't plan on skiing today. 

[Terpeast]

16 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Maybe you’re right I was mostly focused on this area up here. But there were examples recently for 95. One in 2021. Around the super Bowl. Perfect track little wave. I eeked out 6” of super wet snow up here and 95 was 34-35 during the heavy precip with white rain. They were in the cold sector. The boundary was juts 1-2f too warm. That was better example for 95. This one is a lost snow for up here  

Yea I can def point to better examples for down here than this one today. Not gonna lose sleep over it though - we had decent cold air in dec and jan, that wasn’t the problem, getting an active STJ is/has been.  

[CAPE]

30 minutes ago, Terpeast said:

Yea I can def point to better examples for down here than this one today. Not gonna lose sleep over it though - we had decent cold air in dec and jan, that wasn’t the problem, getting an active STJ is/has been.  

Yup. We had an arctic desert for 20 days. 

[CAPE]

1 hour ago, psuhoffman said:

It depends where. Even in 1970 this was unlikely to be much snow south of DC and SE of the fall line. But even with this weaker low solution it’s close enough for places like Resiterstown, Frederick, Westminster, Parkton… I think it’s frankly a no brainer that these areas lost some snow. Was it 1” or 3” I dunno. But it’s so close that any colder at all would have made a difference. And we know it was colder. I don’t think it’s that complicated.  And we know we are losing snow.  The numbers bear it out. Our snowfall is declining. So we know for a fact we’re losing some storms. This one seems like a no brainer at least for my area. My wet bulb is 33. I’m going to he raining with a boundary layer of 33-34 for like 5 hours doing which about .3 qpf falls. That’s so marginal any colder at all and I’d be getting 2-3”. Maybe I do get 2” it’s close, but then any colder and it would have been 4”!   Either way I am losing some snow today because it’s warmer. Because this is a perfect example of a borderline temp event where it’s going to tip barely too warm in 2026 and so likely would have tipped cold enough at some point in the past. I dunno if that point is 2000 or 1970 or 1950 or 1930 but at some point this would have been snow, at least up here. 

I dunno. This  just doesnt look like a a winner baby, not for our latitude. Now a stronger low along the coast, you would have something up your way at least. It doesnt really deepen until its well offshore though. And the High to the NE with lower pressure to the NW, kinda inverted from what we want, esp in a marginal Pacific airmass. Not like we have an antecedent cold air mass in place, but retreating. Its freaking mild air leading in. I think we agree in general, but I just don't think it applies in all marginal situations. A slightly stronger High to the north, even with the same weakish low and track might have been enough to tip the scales up your way.  Its the fine details in a marginal setup that can make the difference.

[ravensrule]

In 1869 it would have been snowing at my house. I'm pissed.