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Febuary 9-11 threat


Allsnow

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Let's give it until 00z Tuesday to stick a fork in this potential event.

Yeah the 48 hr rule usually works well (I'd actually give it til 12z Tuesday.) I dont get why people always rush to judgment on these storms, patience pays dividends.

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I still feel reasonably confident this threat is not dead my any means. Look at the 48 hour storm, its totally different than it looked four days ago.

One thing I noticed is the individual gefs nudging their way north. All it takes is a slight change in the northern stream setup.

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A neg nao actually would suppress the solution even more. We dont want it right now.

No it wouldn't, Alex. A -NAO (in this case, a west-based block) would actually make the PV a smaller feature, and force it further SW, which would help to buckle the pattern.

In +NAOs, the PV is often a HUGE in size, and in bad positions.

-NAO does not always mean suppressive.

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Yeah the 48 hr rule usually works well (I'd actually give it til 12z Tuesday.) I dont get why people always rush to judgment on these storms, patience pays dividends.

This is all I was trying to suggest, and I nearly got my head ripped off. I agree at this time it's not looking good. However I just don't put too much stock in what the models are portraying this year. Just look at what happened yesterday, consensus from the NWS was LP tracking to the SE when in fact the track was NW of the area. Models didn't even catch on to this until it was actually happening.

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I still feel reasonably confident this threat is not dead my any means. Look at the 48 hour storm, its totally different than it looked four days ago.

One thing I noticed is the individual gefs nudging their way north. All it takes is a slight change in the northern stream setup.

Even PT(Wxoutlooksblog) says things will change many times before the event so what you may see now may be totally different tomorrow. Though he has cut down chances for the Thursday event with only one asterisk.

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No it wouldn't, Alex. A -NAO (in this case, a west-based block) would actually make the PV a smaller feature, and force it further SW, which would help to buckle the pattern.

In +NAOs, the PV is often a HUGE in size, and in bad positions.

-NAO does not always mean suppressive.

I was going by what Adam said in the Philly thread; he actually thinks this storm is going to be a coastal hugger (or did as of last night), because none of the indicies support this kind of OTS track. I remember him saying that he thinks the models have the PV in the wrong spot and there really isnt any support for it being there.

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12z GFS ensembles are better than the 00z ensembles. 12z has 1008 mb low off the coast. Plenty of time for modeling to change. Most of the storms have changed on the guidance as the storm as become closer in time.

Yeah, we actually should wait for the early week storm to do its thing before making prognostications on what happens down the road. Remember the debacle last night? No one saw that coming either.

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I still feel reasonably confident this threat is not dead my any means. Look at the 48 hour storm, its totally different than it looked four days ago.

One thing I noticed is the individual gefs nudging their way north. All it takes is a slight change in the northern stream setup.

Hell, you could look at the event yesterday which turned out nothing like we expected.

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Please dont do those silly edits in this thread. There is a banter thread and I'm sure plenty of threads in the PA forum to do that. Thanks,

Oh lighten up Francis. What's wrong with a little humor to lighten the mood. Some of you people need to get a life and stop worrying about snow so much.

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Yes Period - and in this case a -NAO in the right position would probably do the trick.......

While this is probably true in this instance, the -NAO that you claim was in place in every storm is simply untrue. The 1/26 event did not really have a -NAO in place. Don't say it was East-based because by the time the storm was on top of us the East Based -NAO was long gone.

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You know things are not going well when not a single storm shows up on the 120hr analongs over the east. That was as of the 00z runs. We have a couple outside chances here.

The first concern is the system on Tuesday. The models have been trending sharper and deeper with the trough but a piece of the PV is breaking off too late and missing the phase. You can see it here on the GFS which is why we end up with a decent event early in the week even if the coastal stays offshore. We need the entire northern stream to dive southwest over the rockies during this time frame and its not happening.

gfs_500_042s.gif

As we move later in the run, you can see how this secondary piece of energy is acting as a kicker and forcing the inital wave off the coast. Meanwhile our energy of interest is now diving down through the Pacific. The mean ridge axis is about 300 miles west of ideal. It's becoming clear already at this point in the run that there is split flow over the Rockies and the northern stream clearly is not digging SW enough. If corrected that would make a huge difference.

gfs_500_054s.gif

Moving ahead further in the run, the concequences of the second S/W missing the phase over the northeast are making there self known. Both are now attempting to phase with the PV but the second S/W is helping to keep heights lowered on the east coast. We need one consolidated phased low at this point over Nova Scota or were dead in the water. Our energy of interest is now moving through the four corners region.

gfs_500_066s.gif

By hr 78, the northern stream is starting to drop in more over western Canada but the damage has already been done. The PV is supressing heights along the coast and its game set match.

gfs_500_078s.gif

By hr 96, our southern stream energy is a sheared out mess. Thanks to the south east riding, the trough is permitted to amplify ever so slightly allowing for a non-organized mess of a low to head out to sea off the MA coast. The PV is in firm control and keeping heights lowered along the coast.

gfs_500_096s.gif

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Guest stormchaser

You know things are not going well when not a single storm shows up on the 120hr analongs over the east. That was as of the 00z runs. We have a couple outside chances here.

The first concern is the system on Tuesday. The models have been trending sharper and deeper with the trough but a piece of the PV is breaking off too late and missing the phase. You can see it here on the GFS which is why we end up with a decent event early in the week even if the coastal stays offshore. We need the entire northern stream to dive southwest over the rockies during this time frame and its not happening.

Either way..... I must say i am happy that it looks like its a much greater OTS chance then an inland runner chance at this point.

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While this is probably true in this instance, the -NAO that you claim was in place in every storm is simply untrue. The 1/26 event did not really have a -NAO in place. Don't say it was East-based because by the time the storm was on top of us the East Based -NAO was long gone.

And according to what the mets were saying, an east based neg NAO is similar to a pos NAO for us.

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