michsnowfreak

It probably is. I'm not familiar enough with Indys climo to confirm, but it would make sense as we have had that here in Detroit. Snowstorm frequency is much increased since 2000 over the long term average.

Here is the last 10 christmases here. Which as you stated, by definition of white christmas (1"+ snowcover 7am christmas morning) is 50%. It was 60% christmas eve tho (see 2009). 2017- 5" of fresh powder christmas eve and another inch in squalls Christmas day 2016- very heavy 5" slushpack christmas eve dwindled to 3" christmas day. The melting of a deep mid-dec pack. It wasnt pretty but definitely white. 2015- bare 2014- bare 2013- a fresh dusting christmas day atop frozen patches of snow. This was amusing because from early Dec to late Mar, Dec 24-25 were 2 of only 4 days (all in late dec) where grass was showing in this historic winter 2012- A fresh and rather unexpected inch of snow christmas eve evening was a treat in a mild Dec 2011- bare, but there was a dusting christmas eve morning which quickly melted 2010- 5" snowpack, old but still freshish 2009- 1" snowcover christmas eve was washed away with christmas day rain 2008- Foot snowpack on a rainy christmas eve froze into an 8" glacier christmas day

Bring it!!!

We celebrate with one side of the family on the 24th and the other side on the 25th. I love both days but Christmas Eve has always been my favorite and our snowstorm last year on Christmas Eve was absolutely perfect. Everybody loved the atmosphere it created, except for the dicey travel. It was certainly not the biggest storm of the Winter, but 5" of fresh glistening powder that began falling around noon Christmas Eve until 11pm (more squalls Christmas day as a record cold blast was moved in) was not just a white Christmas. It was courier and ives perfection. To have that happen 2 years in a row would be a dream.

They have always been bad but this year is an absolute sh*t show with them defaulting to warm in cold patterns.

100% wrong. You were in Indiana one Winter. I don't know what you are not grasping about the concept. I'm not sure where in Indiana you live, but again, since 2000, Indianapolis (FAR from the best location for snow in indiana) has had 32 snowstorms of 4" or more, 17 of 6"+, and 4 of 10"+. Obviously, to have the biggest storm of the season be 4" is on the low side. Atlanta meanwhile, in that same timeframe, has had THREE storms of 4"+, the largest being 4.6". 90% of this subform outside the lake belts averages 1-2+ snowstorms PER WINTER of 6"+. Most of the deep south outside the mountainstops is lucky if they average 1 per DECADE. I do not deny that you are in one of the worst areas of this sub forum for snow, however on average you still certainly will do much better than the deep South in terms of big snowstorms.

Lol snow has fallen on 5 of the first 8 days of December but we are 0.1" total. I've now had snowflakes fall on 20 days this season already, but am only at 6.2" and have really not had to shovel at all. Only one time, and that was not necessary as it mostly melted later that day. What an odd start.

Good post and excellent point about a 6" snowfall not being a big deal. We certainly will enjoy it and we certainly will be posting when it happens but there is no need for a 1000+ post thread just because something shows up on the models a week out. Rare snow in the deep South is absolute Comedy Central material for us in here in the North while watching people get stranded and having their commutes take 12 hours to get through 1" of snow. And even though the mid Atlantic every handful of years gets a massive new englandesque storm, the Midwest and Great Lakes out-snowstorms them by a ton. And I would not worry about the Midwest's alleged reputation as being boring. Each state has redeeming qualities and I know first hand that tourism is huge here in Michigan. It's also comical seeing this on a weatherboard come up because where do you get more extreme changeable weather and change of seasons then the Midwest? Sure as HELL not the deep south or midatlantic. That "boring" reputation primarily comes from elitists on either the East or West Coast stereotyping, and if you think for one minute that they dont stereotype the deep south...l-o-l.

Agree 100%. As you said there are some knowledgeable posters. The New England forum is certainly the 1st to start hounding on what Winter will be like (they do that in like June lol) so i pop in there occasionally but often it's just way too much to sift through all the junk and clutter in their threads to get to the actual meat so I just pass

Ugh i kept forgetting to enter. Good luck to all but may the snowiest guesses win lol

Lmao I hope you are joking. As I said in my above post different areas of the sub forum will get hit harder in most storms than other areas. It is rare to see a storm slam the entire subforum, but it is more common to see a storm affect the entire sub form but in different ways. And it's also silly to cherry pick an isolated spot in the deep South and compare that to the entire subforum. The comparisons you have been making of the midwest to the deep south have been so skewed and incorrect its laughable.

It all depends. A lot of factors come into play. 1st of all this region gets lots of snow storms so it's not like a novelty thing. 2nd of all most storms will affect one part of the sub forum harder than the other. 3rd of all, some forms have more posters and others

We've had mood flakes on and off for the past 3 days but just a trace. Snow has literally fallen and 18 days already this season and I met a total of 6.1" lol. And by the way I've been listening to Christmas music since November 1st.

Spot on!

I was actually thinking of adding Buffalo to that and then I was trying to remember if they can get the hot temperatures with the water. Then again I really suppose 88ﾟdewpoint 73° versus 94° with a dew point of 69ﾟ is just noise lol. Buffalo is certainly a better snow location, I just did not know how hot it could get in the summer. One thing is for certain the lower Great Lakes Stretching into the upper Midwest in a line between Des Moines in Minneapolis is a perfect area to experience 4 true seasons. Many of us snow addicts, some worse than others lol, wish to live in climates that are much more Winter heavy and less of a balance between true summer and true Winter.

Borderline Winter weather, meaning mixing or borderline temps, will often see you do better than Detroit. But in the heart of winter ive seen your area get more fringed while detroit slammed. But your area up through Detroit's northern suburbs is an area of somewhat enhanced snowfall. Once you get to northern Oakland County it's an absolute microclimate. One thing some people may not realize is that in lower Michigan it's not simply a South to North thing of who gets the most snow. In fact the Detroit area as a whole very often times gets more snowfall than mid Michigan or the Southeast corner of northeast lower Michigan. It's something most people outstate would not realize because obviously the spotlight is on the snowbelt areas of northern Michigan that get absolutely blasted. There have even been about 3 or 4 winters this century where Detroit has gotten more snow then the banana belt of the upper peninsula (i.e. Menominee area).

I honestly think the best climates IF you want true summer AND true winter are the likes of Minneapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, and Chicago. I really like my Detroit climate for the most part but it isnt my ideal, my ideal would be Marquette. I'm just talking in my opinion I cannot think of a better place to experience distinct seasons. We definitely have long winters and long summers. There are breaks in both, including cool spells in summer and thaws and warm spells in Winter. But the bottom line is winters are full of lots of clouds, lots of snowflakes, and numerous snow systems coming from multiple sources, just as summers are filled with a lot of sunshine and a lot of warm and humid weather. When you are getting up to the 45th parallel, there are certainly several hot days in the summer but there really isn't what id call true summer to satisfy a sun worshippers needs. Winters of course are great (Although I would be very aggravated if I lived that far North but outside of a snow belt. Sure they have frozen Lakes and snow on the ground, but their snowfall totals are extremely weak in comparison to very nearby counterparts). On the flip side, once you are South of 39-40N, Summer is long and hot, no argument there, and there are certainly many cold snaps and several snowfalls in winter, but i wouldnt call it true winter.

You definitely did not move to one of the better areas of this subforum for snow. And last year sounded on the extra boring side for you. With that said it's definitely a laughable comparison of Indiana and Georgia. Decent snowfalls in Indiana probably outnumber decent snow falls in Georgia 15 to 1. You will certainly see a decent snowfall at some point in Indiana. Edit. I looked up snowfalls since 2000 in Atlanta and Indianapolis. Since 2000, Atlanta has had 3 snowfalls over 4", the largest being 4.6". Indianapolis has had 31 snowfalls over 4", including 17 over 6" and 4 over 10", the largest being 12.3".

See this is where it's all perspective. You say that only 25% of the Winter days are like Winter but 90% of the summer days are like summer. I guarantee I could find probably 8 out of 10 people who would say the exact opposite. You're giving a strict criteria for Winter. Per your winter scale, if the high is 20° but there is only 1 inch of snow on the ground, that's not Winter. If there is 6" of snow on the ground but the high is 34°, that's not Winter. You did not give a scale for what is a summer day, but if 90% of the days from mid June to mid September are summer, considering the Great Lakes averages 15 days or less of 90° per year, I have to assume according to you, a day with a high of 78ﾟis summer. Again it's all in perspective but quite an unfair and unrealistic playing field you are setting forth. And I say it again, this is coming from someone who has very similar weather likes as you.

The map is definitely low for the Detroit area. 6.7" at DTW, 6.1" here, and northern suburbs easily over 10". For the most part it is a great map though and a great tool as well

I was in a Grand Rapids today. Lots of old dirty piles of snow so it was evident they had a nice Winter wonderland not too long ago. However today it was 95% bare ground

The way the models are I would not count on anything a week away anywhere lol. Most of the mid Atlantic has terrible snow climo , though north of Philadelphia might not be as bad.

Thanks for the analysis as always don. Detroit averages about 6" more than Chicago on average, and recent winters Detroit has far been out snowing Chicago. With all the talk of an East Coast Winter this year I was thinking it would be another year where Detroit far out snowed Chicago, however Chicago is certainly off and running. November was quite an odd month in Detroit in that it snowed so often but there was nothing of consequence. Snow fell on 14 days during November including 9 days which had measurable snow. It was cloudy or mostly cloudy 27 of the 30 days. Brushing the car off was common as was waking up to light but picturesque snowfalls. Yet shoveling has not been necessary yet, and most of the snows were low ratio. It has been nice to see the flakes fly so frequently but i am definitely ready for more! Climo thru Nov 30 is only 1.6", so it really picks up steam in Dec. I am sure plow drivers have been salivating seeing so many flakes fall but not having to plow anything yet but climo is a reminder that we are just getting started.

Sounds good. DTX issued their Winter outlook finally. Pretty much call for December to be slightly warmer and slightly less snowy than normal and January and February to be slightly colder and slightly snowier the normal. A very broad brushed outlook not varying much from climo but the take away is what I have heard from several other sources- that December will be the weakest Winter month.

It does look pretty boring for the most part but hopefully we can get a little bit of snow on Thursday. That seems to be the day the models are honing in on at this point