michsnowfreak

I agree. I still think a stormy Winter with plenty of snow was on tap but a majority of the fun will be January on word. I also don't think the rest of December will be a shutout for the sub but it will not be sustained Winter by any means. I made sure to take pictures of my outdoor decorations in the snow this week just in case our bad December luck of the past few years continues. Supposedly gefs shows strat warming in late December, which is a good sign.

A warm winter in the north is still not conducive to most people wanting to be outdoors lol

Winter will come. I'm not a fan of the pattern, but once things get active good things can happen. Retention wise I have a feeling colder air will hit more consistently after Christmas.

EPS is colder, GEFS is warmer. I'm not good with indices and stuff, but that's the basic idea lol.

EPS and GEFS looking very different as we head towards the Solstice

Agree that we are NOT the general public lol. I would say they remember 2000-01 as harsh Because December was very harsh and even though January through April was extremely boring it took until mid February for the snowpack to melt. Plus, this was coming after meh 1990s winters (despite the Jan 99 blizzard). After so many snowy winters the next 2 decades I am not quite sure it would be remembered the same now. 1977-78 is another very front loaded Winter, were Winter was essentially over from active standpoint Room after the January 26th blizzard. But the snowpack did not melt until late March.

Thats nice if there's a cold air mass to prevent melting.

We lucked out with snow around Christmas which stayed on the ground through early January in 2012-13, but definitely for the most part in the Midwest Winter did not start until mid January. in the end it ended up with slightly above average snowfall here. But yes the attention spans are what where it's at. I even heard people last year talking about it being a long Winter lmao, when we had cold and snow in April.

I like gray skies in winter but it's irritating when snow melts, then it turns gray. The absolute perfect Winter scene is a steel gray sky with fresh bright white snow everywhere.

After a 4 inch snowfall started the month we had nothing but sunshine...now that the snow finished melting yesterday, its gray.

Definitely. When you think of those early and late season snows that don't stick or all the countless days with flurries in the middle of Winter the traces really add up. ORD averaged 29 days of measurable snow per winter and 44 days of 1"+ snowdepth. DTW averages 37 days of measurable snow per winter and 50 days of 1"+ snowdepth.

I don't have the exact average, but this region definitely see snowflakes a lot more than many other regions. Unfortunately even with xmacis there's no way to compile data that includes trace amounts without counting them, so I decided to use last season and then the 2 extreme poster child seasons of 2013-14 & 2011-12. Chicago- 2019-20: 61 days with snow (DJF +5.0°) 2013-14: 74 days with snow (DJF -7.6°) 2011-12: 39 days with snow (DJF +6.4°) Detroit- 2019-20: 77 days with snow (DJF +4.6°) 2013-14: 92 days with snow (DJF -7.1°) 2011-12: 53 days with snow (DJF +5.0°)

oh wow you were correct. When averaging DJF the 2 were the warmest 5 year winter periods, but both averaged normal snowfall. it does seem like extremes are increasing, as right before that warm stretch began we had the coldest Feb in 140 years in 2015 which was the year after our most severe winter in recorded history, and a slew of mostly severe winters dating to 2008. I just remembered this is the discussion thread not banter lol...so despite a zzzzz stretch im sticking with my guns. In the end winter will average warmer, wetter, and snowier than avg.

I am sure you are being facetious, thats simply not happening lol. Unless you mean out of the game for wall to wall cold/snow. When it snows on 60-70 days in a Winter that's already 7ﾟ warmer than average and we see flakes on Halloween and mothers day...I don't think I am quite worried about Winter going anywhere

I would have to look into that, I am not sure if the past 5 winters were the warmest 5 year set on record. Its possible as 3 of the 5 were much warmer than avg, the other 2 near avg. I do know that the 2010s winters were not the warmest winters on record (the 1990s, 1950s, 1930s were warmer) but they were the snowiest on record. I think the ice in 2018-19 was actually quite good, terrible last year. Obviously snow is just a part of the equation...but you cannot look at things a couple years at a time. When I look at the long term trends, I will take winter temperatures a degree warmer in return for several inches more snowfall.

Did a teacher ACTUALLY say that to a 3rd grade class!? If so, that's ridiculous to fill kids heads with that at a learning/vulnerable age. Although I remember reading a similar article back in the late 1990s. It's absolutely comical, not only because snowfall (along with precip) has actually increased at many places above 40N, but because a snow season literally spans half the year or more on average from first to last flake. I guess the teacher expected some Armageddon-like transformation in 8 years. The 2010s were the trifecta at Detroit...the wettest, snowiest, and warmest decade on record.

The summer equivalent of you would be complaining that at the heart of summer average highs are only in the mid 80s...so its just as easy to see a high of 75 in July as it is to see a high of 95...and that's just not acceptable!!!! And don't get me started on how almost every June features low temps in the 40s. You're right...JJA is always blazing hot wall to wall. Do you see how that sounds? And why do we have winter threads/discussions!? Why even visit a weather board then if all you like is winter and you don't want to discuss it! But as a fellow cold/snowcover lover, I'm very disappointed in your "whats the point we get 1 or 2 exciting snowstorms" attitude. I thought you didn't care about snowstorms anyway, just cold and snowcover. Barrow (or whatever its called now lol) sounds like your place. kiss any exciting snowstorm ever goodbye...but you'll have snowcover from sept to June lol. The lower Lakes has never been a region of what you're looking for. But considering we see snow off and on from October to May, lol at acting like Chicago gets no winter. Not sure of Chicago's average, but im sure Hoosier has them. But Detroit averages approximately 75 days a year with a trace of more of snowfall, 35 days of measurable snowfall, 50 days of 1"+ snowcover....and 12 days of 90F+. So out of 365 days, 75 see snowflakes and 12 see 90 degrees. We need to stop pretending we have summer!!! (reminder these are facts but this post is also tongue in cheek to show you how it sounds...Winter is my favorite season as you know).

I'm at 6.2" so far, but after a white start to December the ground is mostly bare today. The Nov 30-Dec 1 snowfall was beautiful. We now enter a quiet period in the Great Lakes but I can't imagine it stays that way for long in a la nina

I'm at 6.2" with 4 days of 1"+ snowcover. It has now all melted except for a few patches & piles, but one interesting thing to note is before the mild night last night, brilliant sun the previous 2 days did not melt the snowpack very fast. Yes it slowly melted, but it really was a Testament to the low Sun angle. One thing I always find interesting is that if it's a front or back loaded Winter, the public tends to always remember the end of it. If we went snowless through New Year's then got dumped on from mid January to mid March, people would remember it is a harsh Winter. If we were getting dumped on from Thanksgiving through New Year's and then the rest of the Winter was mild, they would remember it is a mild Winter. The upcoming quiet stretch is quite perplexing however with the overwhelming signs of a wet winter in the southern Lakes, I can tell you I will be SHOCKED if this zzzz is a winter long theme.

something tells me in the 4 months until that time it will not be all zzzz

just patches and piles of snow left as temps hung in the upper 30s all night. now onto a boring stretch that hopefully is one of few in what should be a stormy winter.

...and the days will be getting colder

I was browsing various Dec discussion threads looking for possible forecast maps for later in Dec lol, and came across this. its a great point. NYC climate always seems like a feast or famine place when it comes to snow. and lean times suck, but when you look at it, there was a lot of snow in recent years not long ago. The 2010s were actually the warmest (just barely), wettest, and snowiest decade on record for Detroit. Snowfall has increased across much of the Midwest and Northeast this century, so I just don't get the fear that snow is going away that some people have. Its not lol. The northeast will always be prone to noreasters.

Snow still trying to hang tough, full cover in any shaded areas. I am tired of seeing the sun. We've certainly had a handful of cloudy days but this is the time of year I look I look forward to that constant gray overcast. Yes, I mean that and yes I know I'm in the minority.