1968-69 was a terrible Winter here, in fact it was Detroit's last sub 20" Winter on record. The other winters mentioned however were all good here. I myself was a big fan of 2002-03, had 69" imby, but I know just to the West it was not that good. My gut feeling on this Winter would be average to colder and snowier than average. As I said earlier, seasonal forecast models seem to be split, some going colder and some milder, but no extremes one way or the other seem to be in play temp wise. As for snow? It's hard not to go on the snowy side considering the overall snowiness of this century in this area. And the old-fashioned, take-with-a-grain-of-salt, nature signs do point toward a harsh Winter. Even the Almanacs are split. At the end of the day, I do not think this will be a terrible disaster Winter nor do I think it will be one of the greats. When there are so many conflicting signs, it's not a bad bet to just go average