michsnowfreak

That's what I was thinking. Im just going to play it by ear the next few weeks and make a decision probably in early February.

I did not realize there were cold Hardy palms that could handle multiple freezing nights for months on end. Then again I never really looked much into the species lol. Im more of a conifer guy myself.

To your knowledge what area of lower Michigan has the deepest snowpack right now? is it the traditional belts near Gaylord? Trying to figure out where to go a month from now. A lot can change obviously but some of the snow depths unbelievably low. If the upper peninsula stays so low on snow I may just go somewhere in northern lower.

Minneapolis spent the entire holiday season with no snow on the ground until the December 23rd snowstorm. They did not have a white Christmas in 2014, 2015, or 2018. Beavis would have already relocated.

This morning's 0.2" of snow melted around midday. A little bit later we had a heavy squall come through, whiten the ground again, and it is now melted. This reminds me of a late March cold snap, not mid winter.

Honestly I cannot remember the last time we had what I would consider an average Spring green up here. Most of the time it has run late than of course we had the ridiculous early in 2012. I do want to caution that regardless of what kind of Winter it is the weather in March and April is the main factor for Spring green up. Some of the region's most notoriously warm winters of years past had widespread reports of flowers blooming mid Winter, even some trees blossoming (1889-90, 1918-19, 1931-32), but March ans April cold snaps were all that was needed to halt any early Spring green up. Likewise, before 2012, by far the earliest spring Greenups we had seen were 1945 and again in 1946, due to big March torches. What was crazy about 1945 is that it came after a pretty severe winter (which in itself was rare for the meager winters of the 40s). So really what happens in spring is the main factor.

It's like the models are really run by a human being who is sitting there reading people's emotions go up-and-down on weatherboards every 6 hours. Trust me, our subforum is by far one of the most relaxed on American weather.

I'm lost lol. Just a few years ago I remember MSP making headlines for hardly any snow on the ground mid winter (obviously this was a bad year and not the norm)...and Chicago has had quite a few 50+ inch winters the past 15 years which you have adamantly complained about. MSP also gets winter thaws sometimes. I am not trying to give you a hard time but this is not at all the beavis I know lol. Hell there's a "microclimate" area of Detroits northern suburbs that average more snow than MSP proper and do much better with snow retention than the rest of DTW metro when thaw hits as long as its not an all out torch. Green Bay only had a T of snow on the ground last i checked and thats farther north than MSP. I always assumed none of this was acceptable if its even a possibility to occur. I would think that nothing short of Marquette would suit you, and that's at a bare minimum. Japan is calling your name.

I think you are right. Considering Chicago only has a 6 month span of the year when freezing temperatures are likely, sounds like a palm tree haven to me.

that includes the missing date from 1874-1884 so it counted as 0. average overall is 46.6".

Period of record average snowfall for Minneapolis 46.6" with 88 days on average of 1" or more of snow on the ground. They do average 12 days per season with 12" or more of snow on the ground but there are quite a few winters that do not even reach 12" and quite a few other winters where you have a really good spell of deep snow. One of the biggest differences is much more sunshine and much colder temperatures than the lower Great Lakes. Their snowiest winter on record was 98.6" in 1983-84 and least snowy 14.2" in 1930-31. The 1930s have some crazy anaemic winters in the Midwest

I'm referring to the cfs on weatherbell where you can see 4 different runs a day. Some crazy cold runs, but also with the huge flip flopping run to run it really opens your eyes to how worthless the cfs is outside of regular few week lead time. and even then

It's unreal how flip floppy and inconsistent the models are. I notice the cfs continues with its frigid February. Isn't the backing off on cold with a still active look actually better for snowstorm chances in our region?

Who is writing off next month?

Regardless of what happens, bamwx is a joke lol. I would take them as seriously as jb

if anyone thinks that beavis would be satisfied with an average Madison or Minneapolis winter, then clearly they have not read his posts

picked up 0.2 of snow overnight. zzz continues.

yes you are fortunate lol.

This is a good post. I love winter and I love snow. I always have and I always will. I also understand how weather works and understand that our winter climo is actually better than a ton of places. I am shocked that with a met degree beavis has such an unrealistic expectations. I have measured snow since 1995 and have taken an annual winter trip North since 2007. I get frustrated when we have crappy winters just like any other snow lover. BUT I don't go into a winter with an expectation that we will get feet of snow November 1st and Arctic cold and then meltdown when it doesn't happen.

That is true. 2014 had two 10"+ storms in a week but no individual big dog. Give me that winter every year.

I remember Ice in the lakes until may and I remember some ornamental trees died in the Detroit area over the Winter due to the severity

I agree. I have always told people we will have a harsh winters again but we will never have another 2013-14. It was the 3rd coldest December to March on record at Detroit, but in addition to being the snowiest Winter on record the snow depth blew all of the records away. We had 46 days with more than 10" of snow on the ground. The next Winter, 2014-15, we had 32 days with more than 10" of snow on the ground. Before those 2 winters the single Winter record was 18 days.

how is your glacier doing lol?

Here is the snowfall for those same past 15 winters ...............ORD......DTW 2005-06: -9.7"....-6.4" 2006-07: -0.7"....-12.4" 2007-08: +24.0"....+29.0" 2008-09: +16.4"....+23.0" 2009-10: +17.9"....+1.0" 2010-11: +21.1"....+26.4" 2011-12: -16.5"....-16.7" 2012-13: -6.2"....+5.0" 2013-14: +45.7"....+52.2" 2014-15: +14.3"....+4.7" 2015-16: -5.1"....-7.4" 2016-17: -10.2"....-4.8" 2017-18: -0.2"....+18.3" 2018-19: +13.2"....-11.4" 2019-20: -1.5"....+1.0" Chicago and Detroit each have an accumulated surplus just over 100 inches the past 15 years. That is a lot! Breaking down the good and bad, the past 15 winters, although Chicago averages 1.5F colder and 6.4" less snow per winter than Detroit...each city averaged +0.4° and +6.8" for their respective average for the past 15 winters. I don't like mild and low snow winters any more than beavis...I just know reality is that an average would not be an average if you always exceeded it.

Here the temperature departures for Chicago and Detroit last 15 winters, of course not counting this Winter. ................ORD.....DTW 2005-06: +2.7....+2.4 2006-07: +0.1....+0.9 2007-08: -1.6....0.0 2008-09: -4.1....-3.5 2009-10: -1.4....-0.5 2010-11: -3.3....-3.8 2011-12: +6.4....+5.0 2012-13: +3.2....+2.7 2013-14: -7.6....-7.0 2014-15: -3.4....-4.9 2015-16: +5.0....+5.6 2016-17: +4.2....+5.1 2017-18: +0.5....-0.5 2018-19: +0.3....+1.0 2019-20: +5.0....+4.6 I looked up the last time that each Detroit and Chicago had a Winter with a temperature departure as above average as 2013-14 was below average, and for each city you have to go all the way back to 1889-90. And that's using today's average.