michsnowfreak

My question was partially in jest. It was a retort to your response to my commenting how many late green ups we have had lately by talking about the early 1800s. But you still didnt explain why every graph you will ever see showing how much a winter has warmed will start since 1970. So I will. Its because starting a regression line in the coldest-on-record 1970s will automatically give you a MUCH more unrealistic warming curve than the longterm average. I have no issue with stats, in fact I welcome them. I am pretty much the climate stat king for Detroit, so if cherry picking is your style be prepared that it can and will go two ways. From a winter perspective (snowfall/snow depth) there is so much I could cherry pick that obliterated snow records, but usually at minimum a 30-year sampling is important imo, not a 12-year one (2010-22). just my opinion. I am VERY aware of what has and what has not changed in our climate. The 21st century is so far warmer, wetter, and snowier than it was in the 19th & 20th centuries. But comparing 1872-1900 to 2010-22 is as cherry picking as they come. Its not even close to the same number of years. March is one of the most warmed months since the 1870s, definitely true. So I suppose that's why we are looking at only the last 12 years compared to the earliest years of data (and just ignoring the 110 years in between lol). Now January, on the other hand, has warmed very little since the late 1800s, so that's why we usually draw those comparisons to the 1970. Are you in Ohio btw? The 2012 spring greenup was a record year, much like 1945, and extremely unusual. No way does the average first leaf on soft maple come in mid-April in SE MI. Buds yes but leaves in mid-April are early. Every Fall and Spring are different, though subtle averages can be estimated. Temp averages by season/decade at Detroit. AVG F WINTER – SPRING – SUMMER - FALL 1870s – 25.2 – 44.5 – 69.5 – 50.5 *incomplete decade* 1880s – 27.6 – 45.8 – 69.6 – 51.8 1890s – 26.5 – 45.8 – 70.4 – 51.3 1900s – 24.9 – 45.9 – 69.8 – 52.2 1910s – 25.5 – 46.2 – 70.3 – 52.0 1920s – 25.8 – 46.7 – 70.1 – 52.7 1930s – 28.3 – 46.5 – 72.3 – 52.7 1940s – 27.0 – 47.0 – 71.4 – 53.1 1950s – 28.6 – 47.0 – 71.6 – 52.7 1960s – 26.2 – 47.0 – 70.5 – 53.1 1970s – 24.8 – 47.2 – 70.2 – 51.6 1980s – 25.9 – 47.5 – 70.7 – 51.2 1990s – 29.2 – 48.3 – 71.6 – 52.4 2000s – 27.7 – 48.8 – 71.7 – 53.5 2010s – 28.2 – 49.6 – 73.2 – 53.8

Definitely a good snow line this winter for MI/OH

Compacting with these late season snows is an absolute given, as is having less on the roads than the grass. But the 12.1 does seem a bit high. Depth at 7pm yesterday was already 6"

Yes. The last thing we need is more power outages lol. And you were right, it was 67 mph.

It was very gusty. Wow on 66 mph though (per climate report). Had some light snow flying in the wind these evening. Obviously just a T.

Madison is 44°. Will be interesting to see what their 00z depth is

Looks like there were blobs of double digit totals near Madison, far NW IL, and between Appleton and green bay. I don't care how many tree limbs are down, I'll always take wet snow over rain lol.

15.8" at DTW this March. No complaints. I only wish every March was like this. As I had said the midwest/lakes region in general has not had a snowy march in years. Usually February is the month that obliterates climo. Hopefully in '23-24 it's December.

I said our region was due for some good March snowstorms and there have been several this year.

Wow I had not heard of that one. I just looked it up. It was Sept 5, 1881. That september still stands as the hottest on record for detroit. On Sept 5 the high/low was 94/74 amd the low that night only dropped to 77.

I agree that the rating system is kind of silly. But it gives you a feel for how the Winter as a whole was, and its cool to see how the line graph rating the winter changed categories either way as the winter progressed. It rates the entire Cold season. Detroit easily rates as mild and we had 4 winter storms that caused damage. Meanwhile 2017-18 was rated as extreme and we had nothing damaging that year, just a good cold snowy winter. You can check out buffalo's individual seasons here. https://mrcc.purdue.edu/AWSSI/chart.html?stn=BUFthr For detroit the most "mild" winter was 2011-12, just beating out 1952-53 & 1997-98. The most "extreme" winter was 2013-14. That was in it's own time zone, nothing else came remotely close. A far distant second was 1977-78.

The Chicago fire was 1871. I think the michigan wildfires were also early 1870s

April 2009 saw that. Contrast indeed

It may even be later on that but it will be quite unsightly by then lol. DTW has a lot they dump snow in from the runways. Some years it can get huge.

Love your avatar. Bang, zoom!

Never happy to see a snow miss, but let's just say the trees need a break lol Jan 25 Feb 22 Mar 3 Mar 10

There were incredibly roller coaster winters in those decades. Very warm winters in the Midwest were 1875-76 1877-78 1879-80 1881-82 1889-90

Still be a while before these dirty mountains melt

That's the spirit. Where was this attitude before?

Bringing cc into every post is annoying. But id be all for a regional thread on it. Locally there's things I like (more snow) and things I don't like (more heat). The book that I mentioned above is actually a great way to look at what this area looked like almost 200 years ago.

How come when discussing how much winter temps warmed we start in 1970, but when discussing greenup we start in 1800? And if trees blooming in early-mid May is "exceptionally early", I guess we had to wait til June in 1800. I have a 580 page book by Bela Hubbard called "memorials of a half century". It literally details everything (weather, trees, etc) around Detroit from the 1830s-1880s. It's a fascinating read. There were many open winters back then btw. I'd say winters of the early 19th century were colder and drier overall.

You're a trip lol. Actually if it's warm I'm fine with it. Only 7 months til the first flakes of '23-24. It's when we get these prolonged spring cold snaps it's hard for a snow weenie to not root snow.

Wow thanks. I knew it was not much, but didn't realize it was that little. Glad I made him shovel my mom's driveway at Christmas, gave him a little winter lol.

Question for chicago lakeshore folks. Do you guys have any idea how much snow fell this season approximately on the lake shore? Maybe 12-15"? My brother was asking, I told him he undoubtedly had less than the 19.7: at ORD.