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NYC Jan 20/21 Obs and Discussion Thread


am19psu

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12z NAM 40km text soundings:

LGA: .57" 31-32.3 surface

NYC: .55" 31-32.3 surface

JFK: .55" 32.5-34.1 surface

EWR: .53" 31.5-31.9 surface

ISP: .55" 31.1-32.3 surface

BDR: .68" 31.8-32.4 surface

Do you get a sharp drop off in QPF for HPN? The one site that I went to only has .22 for HPN. Thanks.

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fyi..... numbers out of KHPN...

110121/0400Z 16 17003KT 29.8F SNOW 13:1| 0.1|| 0.1 0.004|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110121/0500Z 17 11004KT 30.0F SNOW 13:1| 0.1|| 0.1 0.004|| 0.01 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110121/0600Z 18 11005KT 30.2F SNOW 14:1| 0.1|| 0.2 0.004|| 0.01 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

----------------------------------------------+----++-------------++--------------++-------------++-----------+---+---

110121/0700Z 19 10005KT 30.2F SNOW 13:1| 0.3|| 0.5 0.028|| 0.04 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110121/0800Z 20 08006KT 30.6F SNOW 13:1| 0.7|| 1.2 0.051|| 0.09 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110121/0900Z 21 08007KT 31.1F SNOW 15:1| 1.3|| 2.5 0.087|| 0.18 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110121/1000Z 22 05008KT 31.3F SNOW 15:1| 1.8|| 4.4 0.122|| 0.30 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110121/1100Z 23 04007KT 31.3F SNOW 16:1| 2.1|| 6.4 0.134|| 0.43 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110121/1200Z 24 35008KT 30.9F SNOW 19:1| 1.6|| 8.0 0.087|| 0.52 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

----------------------------------------------+----++-------------++--------------++-------------++-----------+---+---

110121/1300Z 25 32011KT 29.8F SNOW 24:1| 1.3|| 9.3 0.055|| 0.57 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110121/1400Z 26 32012KT 29.7F SNOW 18:1| 0.2|| 9.5 0.012|| 0.59 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

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fyi..... numbers out of KHPN...

110121/0400Z 16 17003KT 29.8F SNOW 13:1| 0.1|| 0.1 0.004|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110121/0500Z 17 11004KT 30.0F SNOW 13:1| 0.1|| 0.1 0.004|| 0.01 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110121/0600Z 18 11005KT 30.2F SNOW 14:1| 0.1|| 0.2 0.004|| 0.01 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

----------------------------------------------+----++-------------++--------------++-------------++-----------+---+---

110121/0700Z 19 10005KT 30.2F SNOW 13:1| 0.3|| 0.5 0.028|| 0.04 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110121/0800Z 20 08006KT 30.6F SNOW 13:1| 0.7|| 1.2 0.051|| 0.09 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110121/0900Z 21 08007KT 31.1F SNOW 15:1| 1.3|| 2.5 0.087|| 0.18 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110121/1000Z 22 05008KT 31.3F SNOW 15:1| 1.8|| 4.4 0.122|| 0.30 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110121/1100Z 23 04007KT 31.3F SNOW 16:1| 2.1|| 6.4 0.134|| 0.43 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110121/1200Z 24 35008KT 30.9F SNOW 19:1| 1.6|| 8.0 0.087|| 0.52 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

----------------------------------------------+----++-------------++--------------++-------------++-----------+---+---

110121/1300Z 25 32011KT 29.8F SNOW 24:1| 1.3|| 9.3 0.055|| 0.57 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

110121/1400Z 26 32012KT 29.7F SNOW 18:1| 0.2|| 9.5 0.012|| 0.59 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 100| 0| 0

BUFKIT's snow algorithms make it nearly always bust too high....not saying ratios wont be high, but there never as extreme as BUFKIT paints them to be

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wow... BUFKIT numbers are impressive.. just came out... I only checked KHPN, but it's got 9.5 inches... Ratios during the heaviest part of the storm are about 15:1

This has to be about the limit for this system no? I mean 2-4 was looking like a good bet yesterday, now its sounding more like 6-10. Given the speed of this system, I suppose it would have to intensify more rapidly to drop greater amounts than this. Is that even a possibilty ATM?

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This has to be about the limit for this system no? I mean 2-4 was looking like a good bet yesterday, now its sounding more like 6-10. Given the speed of this system, I suppose it would have to intensify more rapidly to drop greater amounts than this. Is that even a possibilty ATM?

yea, I mean.. I doubt we would get this high of numbers.. I just found it rather impressive so I posted it... hey you never know though.

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This has to be about the limit for this system no? I mean 2-4 was looking like a good bet yesterday, now its sounding more like 6-10. Given the speed of this system, I suppose it would have to intensify more rapidly to drop greater amounts than this. Is that even a possibilty ATM?

On the 12z NAM, a very nice banding feature showed up at 21hrs over eastern NJ, western NYC area. It's possible that if this thing gets its act together a tad sooner we could be dealing with 1-2" per hour snowall rates for a time. This is still a quick mover but if someone managed to sqeeze out 1" QPF with ratios in the 12-1 - 15-1 range someone is getting 12"+.

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Hi-res models are quite amplified now, but also they bring warm air close to the NYC area. This is the problem I was worried about-we need a weak system to keep the warm ocean air safely offshore. If it amplifies any more than progged now, parts of the coast may mix over. There's nothing forcing an offshore track or cold air in place whatsoever here.

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Which would merit a warning for the area

I think if the GFS and Euro follow the NAM warnings could be put out by the afternoon update.

Or for places east of NYC at least

that I would agree with.. As someone said earlier, with St. Louis getting 9" perhaps the models are picking up on the fact that this storm may have have a bit more juice than

originally thought..

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Hi-res models are quite amplified now, but also they bring warm air close to the NYC area. This is the problem I was worried about-we need a weak system to keep the warm ocean air safely offshore. If it amplifies any more than progged now, parts of the coast may mix over. There's nothing forcing an offshore track or cold air in place whatsoever here.

NYC is very cold in the upper levels based off NAM soundings. Only the surface is a little warm, 30-32.5

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Seems like its in by midnight out by 7 and sun's shining by 9 type of deals then we see how cold we can get over the weekend

GFS looks fine. I'm guessing it spits out .35-.40 or so through 27 hours for NYC. Normal for it to be a bit drier than the mesoscales I would think.

GFS is a shift north with the precip swath too. NAM did that as well I think.

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The one feature apparent on the models that I love to see is a nice fetch originating out of the GOM. I don't think this system, although fast moving, will have any issues with moisture. Also as the storm intensifies over the Atlantic it has plenty of moisture to work with. The storm will develop over the baroclinic zone just offshore and feed off the warmer waters. For this reason I do believe this more westerly track is likely and like others I worry about some areas dealing with the potential for mixing. I think the areas with the greatest potential for higher snow amounts are NYC and C-N NJ. The best part about this storm is with expectations of 1-3 or 3-5 inches, a delightful surprise is likely for someone.

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