Tornado Girl Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 What's the definition of a blizzard around this parts? While heavy snowfalls and severe cold often accompany blizzards, they are not required. Sometimes strong winds pick up snow that has already fallen, creating a ground blizzard. Like Andyace said, The National Weather Service defines a true blizzard as a storm which contains large amounts of snow OR blowing snow, with winds in excess of 35 mph and visibilities of less than 1/4 mile for at least 3 hours. And as Andy (Wx4cast) said, a severe blizzard is considered to have temperatures near or below 10°F, winds exceeding 45 mph, and visibility reduced by snow to near zero. Three things must come together for a blizzard to form. 1.Air below freezing point (typically 20 degrees F and below) that can cause snow, should be present both at the heights of the clouds and near the ground. As a result, snow is formed at the clouds, and near the ground, the snow is prevented from melting. 2.There should be adequate moisture to help clouds develop, and result in precipitation. Wind blowing over a lake is a sure source of moisture. 3.Warm air that rises over cold air should be present for the blizzard to develop, resulting in strong winds at more 35 miles per hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorEaster27 Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 Wish I had my sled down in NYC instead of the adk's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tornado Girl Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 So far today I have picked up a heavy dusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Slick Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 Not even a dusting today. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyace Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 About 1 inch here today. I have not used my snowblower once, nor started any snowmobiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wx4cast Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 So far today I have picked up a heavy dusting. I never thought you'd be a "slantsticker" ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolymammoth Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 This is strictly a weenie b**ch post: but I spent my first 20 years in the NY area (1957-1977) back when (generally) all-snow coastal storms were a rarity. Usually reserved for February. I spent much of my childhood disappointed by snow to rain events. I've spent the last 30+ years in Binghamton, NY where we often fully participated in coastal storms--and not infrequently were in the accumulation lolipop zone. We have had--as far as I can tell--not a single flake of synoptic-storm-produced snow here this season. And synoptic storms affecting us have been rare in the last few years. Mixing issues have become common here. We can't seem to make it happen here anymore. Early to give up on this winter--but I'm disheartened when areas (like coastal NJ and LI) get hit with increasing frequency and BGM measures snow in frequent tenths of an inch of LES. No point except--it sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bumble Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 This is strictly a weenie b**ch post: but I spent my first 20 years in the NY area (1957-1977) back when (generally) all-snow coastal storms were a rarity. Usually reserved for February. I spent much of my childhood disappointed by snow to rain events. I've spent the last 30+ years in Binghamton, NY where we often fully participated in coastal storms--and not infrequently were in the accumulation lolipop zone. We have had--as far as I can tell--not a single flake of synoptic-storm-produced snow here this season. And synoptic storms affecting us have been rare in the last few years. Mixing issues have become common here. We can't seem to make it happen here anymore. Early to give up on this winter--but I'm disheartened when areas (like coastal NJ and LI) get hit with increasing frequency and BGM measures snow in frequent tenths of an inch of LES. No point except--it sucks. The total lack of synoptic snow really is remarkable. I can't think of any snypoptic snow that has fallen yet either in the Buffalo area. You would think by this time at least a weak clipper or minor overrrunning event would have crossed the area. Can't even seem to get the dreaded snow to rain type of system.....I'm sure something will roll through sooner or later, but the I-95 corridor continues to dominate the eastern US snow systems in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Slick Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 Remember last February? Just saying...we almost always get one "big" synoptic system each year. Just have to wait for it. Although it is a pain in the ass playing the waiting game. Hell, even Lake Ontario hasn't produced anything the past few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakeEffectKing Posted December 29, 2010 Author Share Posted December 29, 2010 The total lack of synoptic snow really is remarkable. I can't think of any snypoptic snow that has fallen yet either in the Buffalo area. You would think by this time at least a weak clipper or minor overrrunning event would have crossed the area. Can't even seem to get the dreaded snow to rain type of system.....I'm sure something will roll through sooner or later, but the I-95 corridor continues to dominate the eastern US snow systems in 2010. Remember last February? Just saying...we almost always get one "big" synoptic system each year. Just have to wait for it. Although it is a pain in the ass playing the waiting game. Hell, even Lake Ontario hasn't produced anything the past few weeks. One reason and one reason only.....a dominant negative NAO.....allows almost no GOM moisture to get involved. Those storms that do get to tap the keg, are shunted to the east for the same reason. We hear all about a negative NAO and how good it is for the east......but the asterik that should be firmly planted in all upstate NY, S. Canada's minds is that THAT DOES NOT APPLY TO US!!!! From ALB and eastward and esp. southward, neg. NAO becomes more and more important for the big storms.....and to a certain extent for us too....but not as strong, nor as west based as it has been. Neutral NAO's are OUR friend (or retreating ones or weakening ones....just anything other than the blockbusters that have been occurring. Clippers are not going to manifest themselves in a pattern as such either....again...they'd be bone dry, and dampen out as they enter the everlasting confluence zone associated with being upstream from a huge block...IMO, watching the Siberian mountain of a ridge break down, may shuffle the entire NH deck....it will have no other effect than a positive one, from a synoptic point for us.....ie can only go up from a total of near 0 synoptic snow events! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tornado Girl Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 I never thought you'd be a "slantsticker" ! slantsticker ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakeEffectKing Posted December 29, 2010 Author Share Posted December 29, 2010 slantsticker ? ie.....you're inflating your totals by holding your ruler at an angle to the ground..... Andy probably assumed as much with your "heavy" characterization of your dusting.....most of us saw a couple thousand flakes!! Or I could be totally wrong! One week into winter.....we'll be OK......I hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tornado Girl Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 ie.....you're inflating your totals by holding your ruler at an angle to the ground..... Andy probably assumed as much with your "heavy" characterization of your dusting.....most of us saw a couple thousand flakes!! Or I could be totally wrong! One week into winter.....we'll be OK......I hope! OK....Thanks... Short term there won't be a lot going on...The air will be so dry After the frontal passage Saturday night that we won't see much if anything. But things will turn around eventually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayuud Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 The total lack of synoptic snow really is remarkable. I can't think of any snypoptic snow that has fallen yet either in the Buffalo area. You would think by this time at least a weak clipper or minor overrrunning event would have crossed the area. Can't even seem to get the dreaded snow to rain type of system.....I'm sure something will roll through sooner or later, but the I-95 corridor continues to dominate the eastern US snow systems in 2010. Some met posted this on wivbs blog "Steve McLaughlin, a long time meteorologist with the NWS in Buffalo, has been quoted several times in area newspapers saying “we live in a mesoscale mecca but a synoptic desert”, meaning that we get ample lake effect events but little in the way of big area-wide snow events. Last year and this year (so far) fit that quote well." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayuud Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 " Lake Ontario has completely frozen over on only two recorded occasions: during the winter of 1874–75, and in February 1934" i wonder how cold it was back then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan11 Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 Did BGM miss out on the so called Snowcane event of late February? I just figured since that one really tracked into SNE, that BGM would have been far enough east to catch some decent snow. This is strictly a weenie b**ch post: but I spent my first 20 years in the NY area (1957-1977) back when (generally) all-snow coastal storms were a rarity. Usually reserved for February. I spent much of my childhood disappointed by snow to rain events. I've spent the last 30+ years in Binghamton, NY where we often fully participated in coastal storms--and not infrequently were in the accumulation lolipop zone. We have had--as far as I can tell--not a single flake of synoptic-storm-produced snow here this season. And synoptic storms affecting us have been rare in the last few years. Mixing issues have become common here. We can't seem to make it happen here anymore. Early to give up on this winter--but I'm disheartened when areas (like coastal NJ and LI) get hit with increasing frequency and BGM measures snow in frequent tenths of an inch of LES. No point except--it sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan11 Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 This is true thus far. They are either offshore or coastal events OR extreme cutters that don't even start as snow... The one from two weeks ago and then this upcoming cutter. That last cutter did end with some post frontal synoptic snow here... 2 inches. At least I got 7" from yesterday's coastal blizzard...better than nothing. The total lack of synoptic snow really is remarkable. I can't think of any snypoptic snow that has fallen yet either in the Buffalo area. You would think by this time at least a weak clipper or minor overrrunning event would have crossed the area. Can't even seem to get the dreaded snow to rain type of system.....I'm sure something will roll through sooner or later, but the I-95 corridor continues to dominate the eastern US snow systems in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bumble Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 Some met posted this on wivbs blog "Steve McLaughlin, a long time meteorologist with the NWS in Buffalo, has been quoted several times in area newspapers saying “we live in a mesoscale mecca but a synoptic desert”, meaning that we get ample lake effect events but little in the way of big area-wide snow events. Last year and this year (so far) fit that quote well." Well, that might be exagerating a bit, since we have can have ample systems moving through in the winter and can do OK on southwest flow events. But I get the general point - we're much more likely to get a big hit from mesocale events in WNY than a large-scale synoptic system. A lot of times it's actually a matter of synoptic systems getting a jolt from the lakes that brings the good snows (i.e., enhancement in front of a strong clipper system). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tornado Girl Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 " Lake Ontario has completely frozen over on only two recorded occasions: during the winter of 1874–75, and in February 1934" i wonder how cold it was back then I've done quite a bit of research on Lake Ontario freeze over's. The temps in January and February 1934 were some of the coldest on record. During that time extreme Cold griped Eastern North America ; it engulfed the continent from Manitoba to the Atlantic seaboard and down the east coast to Palm Beach, Florida. I have some records of the temperatures that winter. Including records from the Battery in NYC which show the city had its lowest recorded temps in Feb, 1934. When I researched the great freeze of 1934; I contacted several places including NOAA/GLERL But the dates proceed the years included in the Great Lakes Ice Atlas. However, George Leshkevich at NOAA/GLERL, suggested a few retired ice climatologist That had some information (or leads) One of them a Mr. Ray Assel sent me a document on recent trends in GL ice cover. I’ve also got data from the Coast Guard that a Petty Officer Bill Colclough sent me. The data is very hard to find. And most of it is in the form of stories. less reliable stores have Lake Ontario freezing across in 1874 and 1893; the The Toronto star, talks about another freeze up in 1912 of Lake Ontario and Lake Superior. But the strongest evidence of the big freeze remains that of 1934, likely about February 9 and/or 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bumble Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 I've done quite a bit of research on Lake Ontario freeze over's. The temps in January and February 1934 were some of the coldest on record. during that time extreme Cold griped Eastern North America ; it engulfed the continent from Manitoba to the Atlantic seaboard and down the east coast to Palm Beach, Florida. I have some records of the temperatures that winter. Including records from the Battery in NYC which show the city had its lowest recorded temps in Feb, 1934. When I researched the great freeze of 1934; I contacted several places including NOAA/GLERL But the dates proceed the years included in the Great Lakes Ice Atlas. However, George Leshkevich at NOAA/GLERL, suggested a few retired ice climatologist That had some information (or leads) One of them a Mr. Ray Assel sent me a document on recent trends in GL ice cover. I’ve also got data from the Coast Guard that a Petty Officer Bill Colclough sent me. The data is very hard to find. And most of it is in the form of stories. less reliable stores have Lake Ontario freezing across in1893 and 1874 And the The Toronto star, talks about another freeze up in 1912 of Lake Ontario and Lake Superior. But the strongest evidence of the big freeze remains that of 1934, likely about February 9 and/or 10. Interesting that Jan/Feb 1934 had such severe cold - the 30's always comes up in global warming talk as being one of the warmest decades on record. I imagine it would have been difficult, if not impossible, to confirm that the entire lake was frozen in the 19th and early 20th centuries in the days before air travel and satellites.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNYWxGuy Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 Did BGM miss out on the so called Snowcane event of late February? I just figured since that one really tracked into SNE, that BGM would have been far enough east to catch some decent snow. O, we definately did get smacked, and C NY / Interior E NY were in fact at the epicenter of the best snows from that storm. That said, the original poster's claim of a synoptic snowfall dump slump in BGM and surrounding areas of Central NY does have merit. Prior to the February '10 storm, the last time C NY as a whole saw a widespread 12"+ synoptic snowfall was at the hands of the February 14-15 / April 16 2007 events. All I can say is thank god for the lakes (Ontario and Finger Lakes alike) and the elevation, else our winters would be nothing to write home about... Here was the snowfall map from the February 25, 2010 event courtesy of WFO BGM... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan11 Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 Nice map Memorable storm for sure. I got 46" that week by including the 19" that fell on February 22-23, but breaking off the first event as that map does... The Feb 25th event was 17" , but 10" more fell on the following few days from the same system as it sat there so I guess the total would be 26" for that event over February 25-27. BTW...that snow was so dense and wet that I really had about 39" or 40" of depth later Saturday the 27th. It couldn't really compress much. O, we definately did get smacked, and C NY / Interior E NY were in fact at the epicenter of the best snows from that storm. That said, the original poster's claim of a synoptic snowfall dump slump in BGM and surrounding areas of Central NY does have merit. Prior to the February '10 storm, the last time C NY as a whole saw a widespread 12"+ synoptic snowfall was at the hands of the February 14-15 / April 16 2007 events. All I can say is thank god for the lakes (Ontario and Finger Lakes alike) and the elevation, else our winters would be nothing to write home about... Here was the snowfall map from the February 25, 2010 event courtesy of WFO BGM... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan11 Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 This map illustrates well the snow drought in the typical snowmobiling areas. Head over to the far eastern areas of the state/bordering NE for any decent depth it would seem. Saw some guys on the wooded trails around here yesterday where we have 8 to 10", but I wouldn't call that very good. Note the white areas may have some snow, but the map doesn't include the Ohio, Chesapeake, Delaware and Ramapo estuaries. OK....Thanks... Short term there won't be a lot going on...The air will be so dry After the frontal passage Saturday night that we won't see much if anything. But things will turn around eventually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying MXZ Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 More freezing drizzle this morning. There has been quite a bit of that the past 2 weeks or so. Nothing ever heavy, but enough to ice over windsheilds, etc. Anyone have any idea what would be causing that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manhattanandcatskills Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 More freezing drizzle this morning. There has been quite a bit of that the past 2 weeks or so. Nothing ever heavy, but enough to ice over windsheilds, etc. Anyone have any idea what would be causing that? I don't know..but we had it too last night in Andes, Delaware County, it's coated the car, etc. How much snow do you have on the ground Flying M? We have 12" and it's not depicted on that snowfall map from yesterday. The City was crazy. There have been big dumps 03, 05, 06, etc, but I have never seen so many huge banks, unplowed streets, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying MXZ Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 I don't know..but we had it too last night in Andes, Delaware County, it's coated the car, etc. How much snow do you have on the ground Flying M? We have 12" and it's not depicted on that snowfall map from yesterday. The City was crazy. There have been big dumps 03, 05, 06, etc, but I have never seen so many huge banks, unplowed streets, etc. I haven't taken a measurement, but it's in the 10"-12" range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wx4cast Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 ie.....you're inflating your totals by holding your ruler at an angle to the ground..... Andy probably assumed as much with your "heavy" characterization of your dusting.....most of us saw a couple thousand flakes!! Or I could be totally wrong! One week into winter.....we'll be OK......I hope! George thanks for defining and explaining the term. OK....Thanks... Short term there won't be a lot going on...The air will be so dry After the frontal passage Saturday night that we won't see much if anything. But things will turn around eventually Just having some fun in this o/wise boring pattern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Point, NY Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 Just having some fun in this o/wise boring pattern Hey.............There's always 3 Phantoms games in the next 4 days Got an extra ticket for ya tonight................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan11 Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 The reason it isn't depicted is because your area is in the Delaware watershed and that map doesn't cover it. Thus most of Delaware County is always blank on that particular map. I don't know..but we had it too last night in Andes, Delaware County, it's coated the car, etc. How much snow do you have on the ground Flying M? We have 12" and it's not depicted on that snowfall map from yesterday. The City was crazy. There have been big dumps 03, 05, 06, etc, but I have never seen so many huge banks, unplowed streets, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan11 Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 My sister and family went to the Albany Devils game last night and seemed to have fun despite their overtime loss. It was a good competitive game ending in a shootout I believe. Hey.............There's always 3 Phantoms games in the next 4 days Got an extra ticket for ya tonight................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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