2026-2027 Record-breaking El Nino

[40/70 Benchmark]

9 minutes ago, MJO812 said:

Nothing is difficult in weather if things line up. I know we didnt have an El Nino the last 2 winters but people were talking in absolutes in October and the winter was different than what many thought. Bam Wx thinks the pattern will be colder as we progress into mid to late November due to the PV taking a beating.  Its going to be interesting to see what happens with the PV.

I think it's too early to mean much for us, even if it does result in a colder period.

[MJO812]

12 minutes ago, 40/70 Benchmark said:

I think it's too early to mean much for us, even if it does result in a colder period.

No one wants cold now anyway

[Lucy Pull]

With the way forcing has been setup I’m feeling a warmer version of December 1997 than 2015. 
 

All bets off if we pop an eastern ridge and it connects with the Canadian ridge.
 

 

[bluewave]

8 minutes ago, MJO812 said:

Nothing is difficult in weather if things line up. I know we didnt have an El Nino the last 2 winters but people were talking in absolutes in October and the winter was different than what many thought. Bam Wx thinks the pattern will be colder as we progress into mid to late November due to the PV taking a beating.  Its going to be interesting to see what happens with the PV.

Last winter was a weak La Niña and the SSW occurred in late November. This early PV disruption is occurring nearly a month earlier before the vortex fully sets in. Plus it’s forecast to rebound pretty quickly.

So the amount of potential cold air is going to be fairly limited this early in the season especially against the record Northern Hemisphere temperatures in association with the historic super El Niño.

We didn’t have much success with the two SSWs  during a much weaker super El Niño in January 2024 and March 2024. Also the weak PV during January 1998 actually enhanced the warmth when the -AO linked up with the Southeast ridge. 
 

[40/70 Benchmark]

9 minutes ago, bluewave said:

Last winter was a weak La Niña and the SSW occurred in late November. This early PV disruption is occurring nearly a month earlier before the vortex fully sets in. Plus it’s forecast to rebound pretty quickly.

So the amount of potential cold air is going to be fairly limited this early in the season especially against the record Northern Hemisphere temperatures in association with the historic super El Niño.

We didn’t have much success with the two SSWs  during a much weaker super El Niño in January 2024 and March 2024. Also the weak PV during January 1998 actually enhanced the warmth when the -AO linked up with the Southeast ridge. 
 

I think the elimination of the ample MC forcing from 2023-2024 helps. Strat warming is pretty varied in how it manifests so it's tough to say outside of the fact that it is probably too early at this point.

[Keith Central PA]

1 hour ago, bluewave said:

If you are going warm for December than why are you giving the week 3+ weeklies any credence?

Maybe because your pushing December 2015 with +10 and others here are more sensible and realistic. A December +3-+5 is more in line with 72,82, and 97..than the extreme iof 2015. . 

[forkyfork]

how is dec 2015 so unreasonable if the climate has warmed since then and this nino is stronger?

[forkyfork]

1 hour ago, 40/70 Benchmark said:

It's almost as if the climate is warming or something...

and this nino is a steroid injection

[JVscotch]

6 minutes ago, forkyfork said:

how is dec 2015 so unreasonable if the climate has warmed since then and this nino is stronger?

I thought the MJO was the biggest factor, as MJO went through phases 4-6 in December which amplified the warmth.  The MJO has heavily been absent from these phases since summer.  If somehow we manage to hit them, then sure. 

[forkyfork]

1 minute ago, JVscotch said:

I thought the MJO was the biggest factor, as MJO went through phases 4-6 in December which amplified the warmth.  The MJO has heavily been absent from these phases since summer.  If somehow we manage to hit them, then sure. 

all you need is a trough in the west and this happens

[40/70 Benchmark]

4 minutes ago, JVscotch said:

I thought the MJO was the biggest factor, as MJO went through phases 4-6 in December which amplified the warmth.  The MJO has heavily been absent from these phases since summer.  If somehow we manage to hit them, then sure. 

Yes, all we can say is that this El Nino will be a bit warmer than it would have under identical conditions a decade ago....but not sure that is enough to account for the lack of MC contribution. We spent a decade observing how that amplifies warmth over the eastern CONUS, so we can't now pretend that it wasn't a factor.

[40/70 Benchmark]

2 minutes ago, forkyfork said:

all you need is a trough in the west and this happens

There is also no antecedent airmass to work with this early in the season.

[JVscotch]

4 minutes ago, forkyfork said:

all you need is a trough in the west and this happens

I hear you.  I believe it’s more than just that.  We are still in late October and I feel need to see how things develop in November and heading towards December.  I know the strat stuff has mixed reviews on impacts but I still feel more comfortable seeing it taking strong hits than not.  This El Niño is a beast and east-based, but the warmth in 3 and 3.4 is stronger than 1997 as well which can hopefully allow further westward movement of the North Pacific low a couple times if it also feels extreme blocking over the arctic.  I think as a whole, it’ll be hard to fight the El Niño’s tendency to overwhelm but not impossible with other forcing from MJO and the arctic. Others have stated this kind of stuff already so nothing new, but I do feel is important.  Being in MD, I’m just hoping for a good storm or two as we are long overdue for a big dog.