June 2025 discussion-obs: Summerlike

[FPizz]

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

Those trees have got to go!  This is a yearly thing now-- either we remove the trees or nature will.

 

How much tree cover gain occurred globally between 2000 and 2020? The world experienced 130.9 million hectares (Mha) of tree cover gain between 2000 and 2020 ¹ — an area roughly the size of Peru.

Despite losses in places, trees are increasing around the world. I happy to read that.

[LibertyBell]

8 minutes ago, FPizz said:

 

 

 

How much tree cover gain occurred globally between 2000 and 2020? The world experienced 130.9 million hectares (Mha) of tree cover gain between 2000 and 2020 ¹ — an area roughly the size of Peru.

Despite losses in places, trees are increasing around the world. I happy to read that.

But this has also led to more fires and those trees in Canada are more flammable than other trees, so the best course of action is going to be to remove them and replace them with foliage that is much less flammable.

 

[LibertyBell]

12 minutes ago, Sundog said:

I suffer from back problems. I've been thinking of removing my spine so that I don't have to deal with the pain any longer. 

They can be replaced with foliage that is much less flammable.  There really is no other immediate answer to this problem.  This is a health issue too, the air pollution from those fires has led to a multitude of health problems including higher rates of asthma.

 

[Sundog]

Just now, LibertyBell said:

They can be replaced with foliage that is much less flammable.  There really is no other immediate answer to this problem.

 

We just have to deal with it, there is not solution. 

Usually I would say go after the arsonists hard since humans cause the vast majority of wildfires, but in the case of remote Canada this is not the case. 

[LibertyBell]

15 minutes ago, bluewave said:

Trees have really taken a beating since 2010. We have seen record tree losses in the East from all the high wind events. The West into Canada has seen a ton of tree losses from all the wildfires. Not to mention the record deforestation of the Amazon Basin. 

The farmers that intentionally burned those trees in the Amazon should be prosecuted-- those trees are far more important to us than the ones in Canada, the Amazon is the *lungs* of the planet.  The trees in the Amazon would never have been burned if those stupid farmers hadn't intentionally set them on fire.

 

[LibertyBell]

1 minute ago, Sundog said:

We just have to deal with it, there is not solution. 

Usually I would say go after the arsonists hard since humans cause the vast majority of wildfires, but in the case of remote Canada this is not the case. 

We can go after the farmers in the Amazon who were intentionally burning the trees there.  I would put sanctions on Brazil and embargo their coffee if they don't arrest and imprison those stupid farmers.

 

[Sundog]

3 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

We can go after the farmers in the Amazon who were intentionally burning the trees there.  I would put sanctions on Brazil and embargo their coffee if they don't arrest and imprison those stupid farmers.

 

It's the third world, they typically have zero regard for the environment or the biodiversity that is destroyed by their actions. 

Caring for the environment is a first world issue. 

There is more value in the Amazon per square mile in terms of biodiversity than any other place on Earth. 

[bluewave]

11 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

The farmers that intentionally burned those trees in the Amazon should be prosecuted-- those trees are far more important to us than the ones in Canada, the Amazon is the *lungs* of the planet.  The trees in the Amazon would never have been burned if those stupid farmers hadn't intentionally set them on fire.

 

The main issue with what passes as regional and global governance is that too many people and governments see themselves as separate from nature. Somehow over the last several thousand years we got the idea that nature is something to be conquered. But in reality we are all part of the same living organism whether we realize it or not. 

[TWCCraig]

14 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

They can be replaced with foliage that is much less flammable.  There really is no other immediate answer to this problem.

 

That's probably happening naturally already. Boreal forest being replaced by deciduous forest. These high latitudes are warming faster than other places on the planet and if rainfall doesn't increase as well you get fires. Pine, fir, and spruce burn very easily. I don't know if boreal forests are expanding northward as fast as were losing them fires, drought etc.

[LibertyBell]

4 minutes ago, TWCCraig said:

That's probably happening naturally already. Boreal forest being replaced by deciduous forest. These high latitudes are warming faster than other places on the planet and if rainfall doesn't increase as well you get fires. Pine, fir, and spruce burn very easily. I don't know if boreal forests are expanding northward as fast as were losing them fires, drought etc.

I've been contemplating this too, the fires are nature's way of replacing something which no longer fits the climate.

 

[LibertyBell]

7 minutes ago, bluewave said:

The main issue with what passes as regional and global governance is that too many people and governments see themselves as separate from nature. Somehow over the last several thousand years we got the idea that nature is something to be conquered. But in reality we are all part of the same living organism whether we realize it or not. 

Yes, the problem is when something bad happens in nature, the usual cause is humans, not nature.  Nature seeks to achieve a sustainable balance, humans have more short term goals.

 

[JustinRP37]

We can't just get rid of Canada's boreal forest! They are part of a very important ecosystem. The problem with boreal forests is that decomposition is super slow. They have very limited decomposition throughout the year because of the long and very cold winters. So every summer more growth does happen and some needles and whatnot drop to the forest floor where they can remain for decades. The problem with this is it is akin to you bringing in a gallon of kerosene into your kitchen each year and storing it under the sink. You never light the kerosene or use it, but every year you buy another gallon and store it. Eventually you have a lot of kerosene built up and suddenly your garbage disposal goes on the fritz and sparks go everywhere (like lightning). Next thing you know you have gallons of kerosene going up in flames because none was used and just kept accumulating.

The boreal forest is also home to several endangered species, plus tons of bacteria we haven't fully studied. We can't just get rid of it. Even replacement more fire-resistant trees would be non-native and not provide the same ecosystem services.

[LibertyBell]

12 minutes ago, Sundog said:

It's the third world, they typically have zero regard for the environment or the biodiversity that is destroyed by their actions. 

Caring for the environment is a first world issue. 

There is more value in the Amazon per square mile in terms of biodiversity than any other place on Earth. 

Yes and even on a human based level, there are likely cures to several diseases in the Amazon forest that we've yet to discover.

 

[LibertyBell]

Just now, JustinRP37 said:

We can't just get rid of Canada's boreal forest! They are part of a very important ecosystem. The problem with boreal forests is that decomposition is super slow. They have very limited decomposition throughout the year because of the long and very cold winters. So every summer more growth does happen and some needles and whatnot drop to the forest floor where they can remain for decades. The problem with this is it is akin to you bringing in a gallon of kerosene into your kitchen each year and storing it under the sink. You never light the kerosene or use it, but every year you buy another gallon and store it. Eventually you have a lot of kerosene built up and suddenly your garbage disposal goes on the fritz and sparks go everywhere (like lightning). Next thing you know you have gallons of kerosene going up in flames because none was used and just kept accumulating.

The boreal forest is also home to several endangered species, plus tons of bacteria we haven't fully studied. We can't just get rid of it. Even replacement more fire-resistant trees would be non-native and not provide the same ecosystem services.

Not get rid of but *slowly* replace with trees that are less flammable.  It looks like nature is doing that anyway. The new climate doesn't seem to be able to sustain the trees that are currently occupying it.

[FPizz]

20 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

But this has also led to more fires and those trees in Canada are more flammable than other trees, so the best course of action is going to be to remove them and replace them with foliage that is much less flammable.

 

I don't really care about Canadian fires.  If I have 5 or 10 days a year of haze, it doesn't bother me.  If we get what we had a few years ago and that lasts for weeks, then we have an issue, otherwise its a nothing burger

[Sundog]

10 minutes ago, FPizz said:

I don't really care about Canadian fires.  If I have 5 or 10 days a year of haze, it doesn't bother me.  If we get what we had a few years ago and that lasts for weeks, then we have an issue, otherwise its a nothing burger

The trends are the problem.

Before the last three years I can recall only one time having smoke come into our area, back in 2002. 

[LongBeachSurfFreak]

59 minutes ago, bluewave said:

Trees have really taken a beating since 2010. We have seen record tree losses in the East from all the high wind events. The West into Canada has seen a ton of tree losses from all the wildfires. Not to mention the record deforestation of the Amazon Basin. 

Ash borer beetle and southern pine bark beetle have killed literally billions of trees in the east. Next on deck is beech leaf disease. Add that to American chestnut blight and Dutch elms disease. Eastern forests are a shell of what they once were. Acid rain and climate change are the final death blows to what’s left. 

[Sundog]

2 minutes ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

Ash borer beetle and southern pine bark beetle have killed literally billions of trees in the east. Next on deck is beech leaf disease. Add that to American chestnut blight and Dutch elms disease. Eastern forests are a shell of what they once were. Acid rain and climate change are the final death blows to what’s left. 

And yet we have more trees today than 100 years ago in the eastern US lol

I guess they're all just a variety of oak and maple haha

[Brian5671]

1 minute ago, Sundog said:

And yet we have more trees today than 100 years ago in the eastern US lol

I guess they're all just a variety of oak and maple haha

yeah the forest is lush here but alot of oak and norway maple, some hickory and tulip trees too

[Sundog]

Seriously though I'm a huge tree lover and all this crap we've had to deal with is very depressing. I've mentioned before I had to cut down a huge 60 year old Ash 3 years ago from my backyard that made great shade and amazing fall color because of the Emerald Ash Borer 

Literally all of it is a product of globalization correct? I think all the pests/diseases are all imports?

[Sundog]

2 minutes ago, Brian5671 said:

yeah the forest is lush here but alot of oak and norway maple, some hickory and tulip trees too

Also lots of Sweet Gums in my area

[LongBeachSurfFreak]

5 minutes ago, Sundog said:

And yet we have more trees today than 100 years ago in the eastern US lol

I guess they're all just a variety of oak and maple haha

Allot are invasives. Like Norway crap maple, black locust and tree of heaven. Doesn’t make for a productive ecosystem because our animals and insects aren’t adapted for them. And tree of heaven for example is the host of spotted lantern fly. They should all be removed where ever possible so the few native species still going strong can take over. Very dependent on location which trees. Here on the island it’s oak, hickory, red maple, tulip, sweet gum, sassafras, and black gum to name a few of the most prominent and least blight/disease prone. 

[LibertyBell]

11 minutes ago, Sundog said:

And yet we have more trees today than 100 years ago in the eastern US lol

I guess they're all just a variety of oak and maple haha

monotype culture, it's the problem with our food supply and farming system too. We're going to face a real crisis in a few decades when our food supply starts to run out.  One single plant disease could do it.

[LibertyBell]

1 minute ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

Allot are invasives. Like Norway crap maple, black locust and tree of heaven. Doesn’t make for a productive ecosystem because our animals and insects aren’t adapted for them. And tree of heaven for example is the host of spotted lantern fly. They should all be removed where ever possible so the few native species still going strong can take over. Very dependent on location which trees. Here on the island it’s oak, hickory, red maple, tulip, sweet gum, sassafras, and black gum to name a few of the most prominent and least blight/disease prone. 

and most of the trees are male so it causes loads of problems with allergies

[LibertyBell]

10 minutes ago, Sundog said:

Seriously though I'm a huge tree lover and all this crap we've had to deal with is very depressing. I've mentioned before I had to cut down a huge 60 year old Ash 3 years ago from my backyard that made great shade and amazing fall color because of the Emerald Ash Borer 

Literally all of it is a product of globalization correct? I think all the pests/diseases are all imports?

How do you kill these insects? Is there a way of eliminating them so you don't have to cut down these trees?

 

[TWCCraig]

I saw lots of white oak along Nicolls road (CR-97) refoliating this week after being completely eaten bare by gypsy moth caterpillars

[Brian5671]

8 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

How do you kill these insects? Is there a way of eliminating them so you don't have to cut down these trees?

 

You really can't.   too widespread at this point.  I laugh when people say to kill any spotted lanternfly you see-that's like trying to hold back the tide with a broom.   Years ago they sprayed malathion to combat  west nile disease in mosquitoes-it possibly led to a large die off of lobsters in LI sound.  Not worth it in the end.

[Sundog]

33 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

How do you kill these insects? Is there a way of eliminating them so you don't have to cut down these trees?

 

If the damage is too far gone there's nothing you can do. A couple years ago the city came around and put a green dot on all the Ash trees and then injected insecticide. What's annoying is that these little beasts move fast to damage a tree. 

They did this last year too. I think you can only slow/possibly halt the damage if you consistently inject insecticide but otherwise you can't do anything else. 

 

[Sundog]

22 minutes ago, Brian5671 said:

You really can't.   too widespread at this point.  I laugh when people say to kill any spotted lanternfly you see-that's like trying to hold back the tide with a broom.   Years ago they sprayed malathion to combat  west nile disease in mosquitoes-it possibly led to a large die off of lobsters in LI sound.  Not worth it in the end.

It depends on the bug. Lanterflies have been found to not do the damage they were feared to cause. Thank goodness. 

The Asian Longhorned Beetle was bad though. It would kill the tree. But because it's easy to spot and doesn't move as swiftly they actually did a good job of keeping it under control. 

[donsutherland1]

Tomorrow will be the warmest day of the week with the mercury rising into the upper 80s across much of the region. The warmest spots will likely reach or exceed 90°. Friday will see temperatures top out near 80°, but it will turn cooler for the weekend.

Shower and periods of rain are also likely during the weekend, especially Saturday afternoon and Sunday. Sunday will likely be particularly cool with the high temperature struggling to reach 70° in New York City and many areas around the City staying in the upper 60s. Rainfall amounts will generally be light with most of the region seeing 0.25"-0.50" of rain.

No exceptional heat appears likely through the first three weeks of June.

The ENSO Region 1+2 anomaly was +0.4°C and the Region 3.4 anomaly was 0.0°C for the week centered around June 4. For the past six weeks, the ENSO Region 1+2 anomaly has averaged +0.23°C and the ENSO Region 3.4 anomaly has averaged -0.07°C. Neutral ENSO conditions will likely continue through at least mid summer.

The SOI was -7.59 yesterday. 

The preliminary Arctic Oscillation (AO) was +0.658 today. 

Based on sensitivity analysis applied to the latest guidance, there is an implied 59% probability that New York City will have a warmer than normal June (1991-2020 normal). June will likely finish with a mean temperature near 73.0° (1.0° above normal).