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Coronavirus

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16 minutes ago, madwx said:

Interestingly it’s because of 6 cases of blood clots out of 7 million doses so far.  All adult age groups have a higher chance of dying from covid than getting a blood clot from that vaccine 

Bad news indeed when a vaccine can be pulled because 0.0000009% of people had a side effect that, from what I can tell, didn’t kill them (I would assume if they died it would be in the article).

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3 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

Bad news indeed when a vaccine can be pulled because 0.0000009% of people had a side effect that, from what I can tell, didn’t kill them (I would assume if they died it would be in the article).

I believe one has died and another is still hospitalized. I don’t know the exact figure, but my understanding is that if you narrow it down to just the impacted group (women 18-48), the prevalence is of course much higher although still very rare. Sucks all around though.

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Anti vaxxers are out in full force already

You should be careful with any of the vaccines because they aren't FDA approved. They are only approved for emergency use.

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5 minutes ago, MJO812 said:

Anti vaxxers are out in full force already

You should be careful with any of the vaccines because they aren't FDA approved. They are only approved for emergency use.

Lots of things are not FDA approved. I'm drinking my Bang energy drink this morning which is not and then preworkout isn't either. Preworkout messed me up back in January, I'll never take again. 

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7 minutes ago, MJO812 said:

Anti vaxxers are out in full force already

You should be careful with any of the vaccines because they aren't FDA approved. They are only approved for emergency use.

Though it does sound like the Pfizer is close to full approval and they are now seeking approval for 12-15 year olds. (This is good news for the “we need schools open as soon as humanly possible” crowd.)

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The entire world should stick to the mRNA vaccines. It seems injecting even a small dead portion of the Covid-19 virus can mess you up. But still 1 out of 7 million people is extremely rare. The odds are probably the same for ibuprofen or Tylenol. Stage 3 trials used 50,000 people, so the sample size has increased and that is probably why they weren't able to find a 1 in 2 million side effect. 

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Michigan is now at peak hospitalizations (and has over 10% of all those hospitalized in the U.S.). Only positive thing is average age of those hospitalized is much younger, which means higher survival rate. 21-day time lagged CFR is also down to ~1.2%, compared to ~1.6% in December. Comparing the peak mortality of this wave versus the last will be a real world test of impact of the vaccines.

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12 hours ago, mattb65 said:

tHiS iS mIsInFoRmaTiOn11!!!11!

Posting a graph for others to interpret the data themselves is one thing.

Editorializing the numbers on a graph with conclusions not based on scientific evidence, such as...

"Once 60 - 70% of people are vaccinated, we'll reach herd immunity" 

or 

"80% of people are vaccinated." 

or 

"We'll be at herd immunty by the end of May."

...is misinformation, which is what several people were doing.

There's a difference. But nice try though. 

 

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1 hour ago, BuffaloWeather said:

Lots of things are not FDA approved. I'm drinking my Bang energy drink this morning which is not and then preworkout isn't either. Preworkout messed me up back in January, I'll never take again. 

This wouldn't have been found if it were fully approved anyway. This is a rare side effect that you wouldn't expect to find in a 30,000 person trial.

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1 hour ago, BuffaloWeather said:

The entire world should stick to the mRNA vaccines. It seems injecting even a small dead portion of the Covid-19 virus can mess you up. But still 1 out of 7 million people is extremely rare. The odds are probably the same for ibuprofen or Tylenol. Stage 3 trials used 50,000 people, so the sample size has increased and that is probably why they weren't able to find a 1 in 2 million side effect. 

Even though it's extremely rare, you can understand why extremely healthy young people might not want to take the J & J vaccine now. If you statistically have an extremely low risk of dying from Covid (like is the case for the very healthy young), it's understandable that some healthy young people would not want to take any chance at all with a blood clot risk with a vaccine since they're already at very low Covid risk. Any blood clot risk at all for completely healthy people is unacceptable. Of course the good news is people can take the other 2 vaccines, but this is definitely a blow to vaccination efforts. A lot of young people found the J & J vaccine more appealing due to only 1 shot and less flu-like side effects. This could hurt the effort of trying to get to herd immunity.

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2 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

Even though it's extremely rare, you can understand why extremely healthy young people might not want to take the J & J vaccine now. If you statistically have an extremely low risk of dying from Covid (like is the case for the very healthy young), it's understandable that some healthy young people would not want to take any chance at all with a blood clot risk with a vaccine since they're already at very low Covid risk. Any blood clot risk at all for completely healthy people is unacceptable. Of course the good news is people can take the other 2 vaccines, but this is definitely a blow to vaccination efforts. A lot of young people found the J & J vaccine more appealing due to only 1 shot and less flu-like side effects. This could hurt the effort of trying to get to herd immunity.

I’m not an infectious disease specialist, but I would think the mortality rate for covid among “extremely healthy” people is greater than 1 in 6.8 million, which seems to be the mortality rate for the J&J vaccine (at least with respect to blood clots).

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4 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

Even though it's extremely rare, you can understand why extremely healthy young people might not want to take the J & J vaccine now. If you statistically have an extremely low risk of dying from Covid (like is the case for the very healthy young), it's understandable that some healthy young people would not want to take any chance at all with a blood clot risk with a vaccine since they're already at very low Covid risk. Any blood clot risk at all for completely healthy people is unacceptable. Of course the good news is people can take the other 2 vaccines, but this is definitely a blow to vaccination efforts. A lot of young people found the J & J vaccine more appealing due to only 1 shot and less flu-like side effects. This could hurt the effort of trying to get to herd immunity.

I could understand the thinking, but it's still misguided at the reported level. The risk is far greater of severe effects/dying of covid in a younger individual than a blood clot from this vaccine. 

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3 minutes ago, WaryWarren said:

Nothing good ever comes out of South Dacovid. Such a cursed place and that's what you get for building Mt. Rushmore on sacred Indigenous land you goobers.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/minnesota-traces-covid-19-in-nine-counties-to-sioux-falls-south-dakota-wrestling-tournament

I’ve always been of the opinion that we don’t need two Dakotas, but lately I’ve been of the opinion that we don’t even need one Dakota.

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7 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

I could understand the thinking, but it's still misguided at the reported level. The risk is far greater of severe effects/dying of covid in a younger individual than a blood clot from this vaccine. 

The odds of being struck by lightning are 1 in 500,000. You're 12 times more likely to be struck by lightning then to get a blood clot from j&j vaccine. 

https://www.cdc.gov/disasters/lightning/victimdata.html#:~:text=Lightning is one of the,only around 1 in 500%2C000.

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6 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

I could understand the thinking, but it's still misguided at the reported level. The risk is far greater of severe effects/dying of covid in a younger individual than a blood clot from this vaccine. 

That's true, but as you said you can understand the thinking. The chance of a very healthy young person dying from Covid is comparable to the risk of dying in a car accident. The risk is so incredibly low that it's not something you worry about. To me dying from a vaccine that you don't even need is the worst kind of tragedy. Even 1 death like that is completely unacceptable to me. I would rather keep myself in top shape through exercise and diet and rely on my own good health to protect me from severe Covid than take a vaccine that has even the tiniest blood clot risk. Of course that's just my opinion and it's fine if others feel differently. Again the good news is the other 2 vaccines don't seem to bring that risk. There is more of a risk of severe allergic reactions with those vaccines, but you can have them watch you for 30 minutes and they can inject you to save you if you have the rare allergic reaction.

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16 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

That's true, but as you said you can understand the thinking. The chance of a very healthy young person dying from Covid is comparable to the risk of dying in a car accident. The risk is so incredibly low that it's not something you worry about. To me dying from a vaccine that you don't even need is the worst kind of tragedy. Even 1 death like that is completely unacceptable to me. I would rather keep myself in top shape through exercise and diet and rely on my own good health to protect me from severe Covid than take a vaccine that has even the tiniest blood clot risk. Of course that's just my opinion and it's fine if others feel differently. Again the good news is the other 2 vaccines don't seem to bring that risk. There is more of a risk of severe allergic reactions with those vaccines, but you can have them watch you for 30 minutes and they can inject you to save you if you have the rare allergic reaction.

I dont really see it that way. There was a single person that was reported to die out of nearly 7 million people. If you didn't do things that carry that type of risk you never do anything...

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9 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

I dont really see it that way. There was a single person that was reported to die out of nearly 7 million people. If you didn't do things that carry that type of risk you never do anything...

The Astrazeneca vaccine is the same type of vaccine as the Johnson vaccine, and there have been a couple hundred cases and a number of deaths over there. Britain's health regulator has recommended that people under the age of 30 get a different Covid vaccine, and now we're seeing a pause of the Johnson vaccine in the US. Obviously there have been enough cases that this type of vaccine is a concern for healthy young people that are already at very low Covid risk.

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Just now, winterwx21 said:

The Astrazeneca vaccine is the same type of vaccine as the Johnson vaccine, and there have been a couple hundred cases and a number of deaths over there. Britain's health regulator has recommended that people under the age of 30 get a different Covid vaccine, and now we're seeing a pause of the Johnson vaccine in the US. Obviously there have been enough cases that this type of vaccine is a concern for healthy young people that are already at very low Covid risk.

Yes, but even the AZN vaccine has about a 1 in 100000 risk of these rare blood cots discussed. The only time it might not make sense for someone to get that vaccine is if they are under 30, and if they live in an area with low covid prevalence, so that your absolute risk from the vaccine would be even or maybe slightly higher. Anywhere where there's a lot of covid, it makes sense to get the vaccine, at any age, from a risk standpoint. In places where there's more than one option, I would definitely opt for the mRNA vaccines, but if AZN was only available, I would take it at 35. 

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3 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

Yes, but even the AZN vaccine has about a 1 in 100000 risk of these rare blood cots discussed. The only time it might not make sense for someone to get that vaccine is if they are under 30, and if they live in an area with low covid prevalence, so that your absolute risk from the vaccine would be even or maybe slightly higher. Anywhere where there's a lot of covid, it makes sense to get the vaccine, at any age, from a risk standpoint. In places where there's more than one option, I would definitely opt for the mRNA vaccines, but if AZN was only available, I would take it at 35. 

 Wise for young people to look at the infection level in their area and their own risk level, and make an informed decision. Not every young person is at low risk. Many are at higher risk due to obesity and other factors. An extremely healthy athlete might not want to take any risk at all with this type of vaccine, while it's worth the tiny blood clot risk for someone that's obese since they're at much higher Covid risk.

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Just now, winterwx21 said:

 Wise for young people to look at the infection level in their area and their own risk level, and make an informed decision. Not every young person is at low risk. Many are at higher risk due to obesity and other factors. An extremely healthy athlete might not want to take any risk at all with this type of vaccine, while it's worth the tiny blood clot risk for someone that's obese since they're at much higher Covid risk.

A younger athletic persons risk of dying of covid is far higher than 1 in 7 million. 

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I get both sides. There’s a lot of younger healthy people that aren’t concerned about covid for themselves, and also aren’t scared of vaccines (myself included). To me, statistically, there isn’t a whole lot of reasons to be concerned for YOURSELF from either. 

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I said it before months ago, and I'll say it again now:

I am a semi-elite runner. I know of at least two running buddies (both of whom are way, way, fitter than you think you are), both my age, who had Covid. The first is an idiot who got it at a party and was sick as hell for a week, and had lingering weakness for over a month. The other was also extremely sick for about two weeks and ended up with fears about heart problems, going back and forth to the hospital for various tests. He is just now, five months later, back to about the same fitness level he was at before. 

I don't care who the hell you think you are, or what you think your statistical chances are of getting sick; if you're not afraid of contracting this disease, you're a certified, grade-A dumbass. If you're scared of the vaccine but not the disease itself, then you're even dumber. 

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15 minutes ago, Malacka11 said:

I said it before months ago, and I'll say it again now:

I am a semi-elite runner. I know of at least two running buddies (both of whom are way, way, fitter than you think you are), both my age, who had Covid. The first is an idiot who got it at a party and was sick as hell for a week, and had lingering weakness for over a month. The other was also extremely sick for about two weeks and ended up with fears about heart problems, going back and forth to the hospital for various tests. He is just now, five months later, back to about the same fitness level he was at before. 

I don't care who the hell you think you are, or what you think your statistical chances are of getting sick; if you're not afraid of contracting this disease, you're a certified, grade-A dumbass. If you're scared of the vaccine but not the disease itself, then you're even dumber. 

I'm 35 (was 34 when I got COVID last August). It barely touched me, other than a nearly two-week long total loss of taste and smell. I've had bouts with the flu, even colds where I felt way worse, and for longer. Only really noticed the cough at night for about a week.

It put my fiancee, also 34 at the time (she's 4 months older than me) into the hospital for 4 days, although she never had any severe breathing problems she had extreme weakness/lethargy and wild blood pressure fluctuations. It also sent her into kidney failure and she is now on dialysis (granted, she had some preexisting conditions that predisposed her to kidney issues, but her function levels were holding their own before COVID).

My friend Dan, a year older and a heavier guy, was in a coma on a ventilator for almost two weeks, nearly died, and still deals with lingering shortness of breath and weakness. He got it early in the pandemic (late March of 2020) when hardly anything was known about COVID-19, let alone how to treat severe cases, so he was lucky to survive.

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21 minutes ago, Malacka11 said:

I said it before months ago, and I'll say it again now:

I am a semi-elite runner. I know of at least two running buddies (both of whom are way, way, fitter than you think you are), both my age, who had Covid. The first is an idiot who got it at a party and was sick as hell for a week, and had lingering weakness for over a month. The other was also extremely sick for about two weeks and ended up with fears about heart problems, going back and forth to the hospital for various tests. He is just now, five months later, back to about the same fitness level he was at before. 

I don't care who the hell you think you are, or what you think your statistical chances are of getting sick; if you're not afraid of contracting this disease, you're a certified, grade-A dumbass. If you're scared of the vaccine but not the disease itself, then you're even dumber. 

Statistics don’t lie my man. I can give you probably three dozen anecdotal accounts of people I know my age or older, in worse shape, who had basically zero symptoms. 
 

I was an EOD tech in the Army. My personal risk tolerance is incredibly far away from wherever Covid ranks. 
 

ETA- if the stats don’t matter and worse case scenarios do, surely you can understand why people are scared of vaccines 

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13 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

Statistics don’t lie my man. I can give you probably three dozen anecdotal accounts of people I know my age or older, in worse shape, who had basically zero symptoms. 
 

I was an EOD tech in the Army. My personal risk tolerance is incredibly far away from wherever Covid ranks. 

That's fair, but I just can't grasp how you wouldn't be at least somewhat concerned about contracting the disease. 

If anything, I would expect that a job like that would make you more concerned about the risk associated with Covid. I know my father, who almost died several times in Iraq, takes Covid more seriously than practically anyone I know. 

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I wonder if the decision to not send additional vaccine to Michigan would have been made anyway or if one of the reasons is because they knew this pause of J&J was coming.  Hopefully there's enough supply of the other 2 to accommodate everybody who already had an appointment scheduled.

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48 minutes ago, Malacka11 said:

I said it before months ago, and I'll say it again now:

I am a semi-elite runner. I know of at least two running buddies (both of whom are way, way, fitter than you think you are), both my age, who had Covid. The first is an idiot who got it at a party and was sick as hell for a week, and had lingering weakness for over a month. The other was also extremely sick for about two weeks and ended up with fears about heart problems, going back and forth to the hospital for various tests. He is just now, five months later, back to about the same fitness level he was at before. 

I don't care who the hell you think you are, or what you think your statistical chances are of getting sick; if you're not afraid of contracting this disease, you're a certified, grade-A dumbass. If you're scared of the vaccine but not the disease itself, then you're even dumber. 

I'm not afraid of contracting the disease because I already had it and it had almost no impact on me. All I had was a scratchy throat, a slight headache and a little congestion. So I'm not a dumbass ... I already know how my body reacted to the virus. Both my cardiologist and primary care doctor told me my chance of getting severely ill from Covid is almost zero because my heart/lungs and immune system are much stronger than average people. My resting heart rate is 36, which is very rare, and my cardiologist told me that my heart and lungs are stronger than most 18 year old athletes even though I'm in my 40s. Different runners have different fitness levels. Not all runners are extremely fit. Some have lower to moderate moderate fitness levels. Don't act as if you know what everyone's risk level is.

So yes, I am more worried about the vaccine than I am of Covid. And I'd rather die from being struck by lightning than a blood clot from a vaccine. When you take a vaccine you're doing something that's supposed to protect you, so imagine dying from it instead. To me that's the worst type of tragedy there is, except for being murdered. So I am not ok with even the tiniest chance of something happening from the vaccine. I do all this work (exercise) to keep myself in top shape, so I'd much rather rely on the natural protection. If I wasn't at extremely low Covid risk, I'm sure I would feel differently and get the vaccine. These vaccines are a great thing. I just think the very small percentage of people that are at super low Covid risk due to being athletes can not get the vaccine and it can be considered a reasonable decision. A lot of baseball teams right now are having a hard time getting to 85% vaccination which would take away restrictions. That's because there are plenty of athletes like me that don't want the vaccine. The decision should be respected.

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14 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

I'm not afraid of contracting the disease because I already had it and it had almost no impact on me. All I had was a scratchy throat, a slight headache and a little congestion. So I'm not a dumbass ... I already know how my body reacted to the virus. Both my cardiologist and primary care doctor told me my chance of getting severely ill from Covid is almost zero because my heart/lungs and immune system are much stronger than average people. My resting heart rate is 36, which is very rare, and my cardiologist told me that my heart and lungs are stronger than most 18 year old athletes even though I'm in my 40s. Different runners have different fitness levels. Not all runners are extremely fit. Some have lower to moderate moderate fitness levels. Don't act as if you know what everyone's risk level is.

So yes, I am more worried about the vaccine than I am of Covid. And I'd rather die from being struck by lightning than a blood clot from a vaccine. When you take a vaccine you're doing something that's supposed to protect you, so imagine dying from it instead. To me that's the worst type of tragedy there is, except for being murdered. So I am not ok with even the tiniest chance of something happening from the vaccine. I do all this work (exercise) to keep myself in top shape, so I'd much rather rely on the natural protection. If I wasn't at extremely low risk, I'm sure I would feel differently and get the vaccine. These vaccines are a great thing. I just think the very small percentage of people that are at super low risk due to being athletes can not get the vaccine and it can be considered a reasonable decision. A lot of baseball teams right now are having a hard time getting to 85% vaccination which would take away restrictions. That's because there are plenty of athletes like me that don't want the vaccine. The decision should be respected.

Baseball has plenty of players who are built like Bartolo Colon or David Wells or Prince Fielder, all of whom would have at least some risk of severe covid. Hell, I’m fairly certain that Babe Ruth would have died of covid if it had been around in his time. I get your point, but baseball might be the wrong sport to choose if we want to talk about extremely healthy people in athlete level shape.

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