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Hurricane Sandy - LIVE - Meteorological Discussion


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If the center moves more westward towards the white (3,000 foot tops) , we could kiss this baby goodbye.

Even just around the yellow, she's bound to take a decent hit.

Um, no. She isn't going to dissipate because of 3-4K foot mountains. Keep in mind that Blue Mountain in Jamaica was 7,000 ft and Sandy passed right over it.

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VDM says it's down to 954 mbs.

000

URNT12 KNHC 250250

VORTEX DATA MESSAGE AL182012

A. 25/02:35:30Z

B. 19 deg 13 min N

076 deg 16 min W

C. 700 mb 2726 m

D. 81 kt

E. 226 deg 15 nm

F. 315 deg 92 kt

G. 226 deg 13 nm

H. EXTRAP 954 mb

I. 10 C / 3044 m

J. 17 C / 3046 m

K. 9 C / NA

L. CLOSED WALL

M. C22

N. 12345 / 7

O. 0.02 / 4 nm

P. AF302 0518A SANDY OB 14

MAX OUTBOUND AND MAX FL WIND 102 KT SE QUAD 02:45:00Z

SLP EXTRAP FROM 700 MB

Wow.

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If the center moves more westward towards the white (3,000+ foot tops) , we could kiss this baby goodbye.

Even just around the yellow, she's bound to take a decent hit.

Major overstatement. Will it take a hit? Yeah. But don't forget what it encountered earlier today. Yeah, it has to encounter a little more, but "kiss it goodbye" is something we will NOT be doing.

topographische-karte-jamaica.png

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Discussion and 48-hour outlook

------------------------------

at 1100 PM EDT...0300 UTC...the center of Hurricane Sandy was

located near latitude 19.4 north...longitude 76.3 west. Sandy is

moving toward the north near 13 mph...20 km/h...and this general

motion is expected to continue with an increase in forward speed

tonight and Thursday. A turn toward the north-northwest and a

decrease in forward speed are expected Thursday night and Friday.

On the forecast track...the center of Sandy will make landfall in

southeastern Cuba during the next few hours...emerge from the north

coast of Cuba on Thursday...move near or over the central Bahamas

late Thursday and Thursday night...and move near or over the

northwestern Bahamas on Friday.

Maximum sustained winds are near 90 mph...150 km/h...with higher

gusts. Sandy is a category one hurricane on the Saffir-Simpson

hurricane wind scale. Reports from an Air Force Reserve hurricane

hunter aircraft indicate that the central pressure is falling

rapidly...and Sandy could become a category two hurricane before

landfall on the Cuban coast. Weakening is forecast as the center

crosses Cuba. However...Sandy is expected to remain a hurricane as

it moves through the Bahamas.

Hurricane force winds extend outward up to 30 miles...45 km...from

the center...and tropical storm force winds extend outward up to

140 miles...220 km. Guantanamo Bay Cuba recently reported sustained

winds of 47 mph...76 km/h...and a wind gust of 58 mph...93 km/h.

The minimum central pressure extrapolated by an Air Force Reserve

hurricane hunter aircraft is 954 mb...28.17 inches.

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Um, no. She isn't going to dissipate because of 3-4K foot mountains. Keep in mind that Blue Mountain in Jamaica was 7,000 ft and Sandy passed right over it.

Major overstatement. Will it take a hit? Yeah. But don't forget what it encountered earlier today. Yeah, it has to encounter a little more, but "kiss it goodbye" is something we will NOT be doing.

topographische-karte-jamaica.png

What are you talking about? Sandy went past Jamaica's tops and nothing happened to it.

I was ready to jump on this, and then figured others would take care of it. Thanks for doing such a good job, all.

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If the center moves more westward towards the white (3,000+ foot tops) , we could kiss this baby goodbye.

Even just around the yellow, she's bound to take a decent hit.

Small cores have ways of avoiding things. In other words it could take a (Edit: eastward wobble) around those peaks like Ike did with Jaimaca.

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What are you talking about? Sandy went past Jamaica's tops and nothing happened to it.

The issue isn't necessarily the 3k abrupt elevation rise on the southeastern Cuban coastline, it's the much larger surface area the core will traverse as compared to the much smaller surface area of eastern Jamaica that will put Hurricane Sandy in check. Where as the speed of forward motion and the large core being partially over water as it moved over the Blue Mountains did not seem to create very much of an inhibiting factor, perhaps even having a positive effect of tightening the core, the overall larger high area of high terrain combined with the larger eastern Cuban landmass in general could have a negative impact. The core will be over land for at least 10 to 12 hours. That should cause a halt in intensification and a weakening trend until it reaches the Bahamas.

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>>keep in mind that Blue Mountain in Jamaica was 7,000 ft and Sandy passed right over it.

just noticed that...wow she is a beast.

Tropical systems typically do get ripped apart rather quickly just from small patches of 3000+ tops.

More landscape of mountains in Cuba though.. Will be interesting to see.

Not exactly. If you're thinking of Hispaniola, those mountains are 10,000'. Jamaica rarely severely disrupts a hurricane. With Cuba, it has more potential because hurricanes can track for longer distances over Cuba (like Ike and Dennis), but Sandy is going to take about the shortest path possible.

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The issue isn't necessarily the 3k abrupt elevation rise on the southeastern Cuban coastline, it's the much larger surface area the core will traverse as compared to the much smaller surface area of eastern Jamaica that will put Hurricane Sandy in check. Where as the speed of forward motion and the large core being partially over water as it moved over the Blue Mountains did not seem to create very much of an inhibiting factor, perhaps even having a positive effect of tightening the core, the overall larger high area of high terrain combined with the larger eastern Cuban landmass in general could have a negative impact. The core will be over land for at least 10 to 12 hours. That should cause a halt in intensification and a weakening trend until it reaches the Bahamas.

Halt in intensification? Sure. "Kiss this baby goodbye?" (and I realize you didn't say that, but someone else did). Uh, no...

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HURRICANE SANDY DISCUSSION NUMBER 11

NWS NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL182012

1100 PM EDT WED OCT 24 2012

CUBAN RADAR DATA AND REPORTS FROM AN AIR FORCE RESERVE HURRICANE

HUNTER AIRCRAFT INDICATE THAT SANDY IS BECOMING BETTER ORGANIZED

THIS EVENING. THE CENTRAL PRESSURE HAS FALLEN RAPIDLY TO 954 MB...

AND A 20-25 N MI WIDE EYE HAS DEVELOPED. THE AIRCRAFT REPORTED

700-MB FLIGHT-LEVEL WINDS OF 102 KT AND BIAS-CORRECTED SFMR SURFACE

ESTIMATES OF 75-80 KT. THE INITIAL INTENSITY OF 80 KT IS BASED ON

A BLEND OF THESE DATA...AND THIS COULD BE CONSERVATIVE. IT SHOULD

BE NOTED THAT SUBJECTIVE SATELLITE INTENSITY ESTIMATES FROM TAFB

AND SAB...ALONG WITH OBJECTIVE INTENSITY ESTIMATES FROM CIMSS...ARE

AT OR ABOVE 100 KT. THIS SUGGESTS THAT SANDY IS LIKELY TO

STRENGTHEN FURTHER BEFORE LANDFALL IN CUBA IN A FEW HOURS.

THE INITIAL MOTION IS 010/11. THE HURRICANE IS CURRENTLY BETWEEN A

MID/UPPER-LEVEL LOW OVER THE NORTHWESTERN CARIBBEAN AND A

MID/UPPER-LEVEL RIDGE OVER THE EASTERN CARIBBEAN. THE DYNAMICAL

MODELS FORECAST SANDY TO MOVE AROUND AND EVENTUALLY MERGE WITH THE

LOW...WHICH SHOULD PRODUCE A NORTHWARD MOTION FOR 24 HR OR SO

FOLLOWED BY A NORTH-NORTHWESTWARD TURN. FROM 48-96 HR...A

DEEP-LAYER TROUGH MOVING INTO THE EASTERN UNITED STATES SHOULD

STEER THE MERGED SYSTEM GENERALLY NORTHEASTWARD. THE GUIDANCE

BECOMES DIVERGENT AFTER 96 HR...WITH THE ECMWF/GFDL/NOGAPS TURNING

THE CYCLONE NORTHWESTWARD...AND THE GFS/HWRF SHOWING A

NORTHEASTWARD MOTION. OVERALL...THE GUIDANCE ENVELOPE HAS SHIFTED

EASTWARD SINCE THE PREVIOUS ADVISORY. HOWEVER...THIS IS IN PART

DUE TO A LARGE CHANGE IN THE GFS FORECAST AFTER 72 HR. THUS...THE

NEW FORECAST WILL SHIFTED ONLY A LITTLE TO THE EAST DURING THIS

TIME...AND IT LIES TO THE WEST OF THE CONSENSUS MODELS. HOWEVER...

IT REMAINS EAST OF THE ECMWF/NOGAPS/GFDL MODELS.

GIVEN THE CURRENT INTENSIFICATION...THE NEW INTENSITY FORECAST NOW

CALLS FOR SANDY TO REMAIN A HURRICANE WHILE CROSSING CUBA. WHEN

THE CENTER EMERGES NORTH OF CUBA...IT IS FORECAST TO INTERACT WITH

AN UPPER-LEVEL TROUGH THAT WILL PROVIDE STRONG UPPER-LEVEL

DIVERGENCE AND BAROCLINIC ENERGY. WHILE THIS WILL ALLOW SANDY TO

STAY AT OR NEAR HURRICANE STRENGTH...IT IS LIKELY THAT THE WIND

FIELD WILL SPREAD OUT AND THAT THE CYCLONE WILL LOSE SOME OF ITS

TROPICAL CHARACTER IN THE PROCESS. ALL OF THE GLOBAL MODEL

GUIDANCE AGREES WITH THIS SCENARIO...AND THE NEW INTENSITY FORECAST

IS SIMILAR TO THE PREVIOUS FORECAST AFTER 24 HR. THE FORECAST WILL

STILL CALL FOR SANDY TO BECOME POST-TROPICAL BY 120 HR...ALTHOUGH

THIS REMAINS LOW CONFIDENCE

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Halt in intensification? Sure. "Kiss this baby goodbye?" (and I realize you didn't say that, but someone else did). Uh, no...

I missed the "Kiss this baby goodbye" comment. No, I definitely don't agree with that. I was just trying to show that this will halt intensification and I do expect it to weaken by the time it emerges off the northern Cuban coastline. I certainly don't expect it to be as strong as it is right now or may be by landfall on the southern Cuban coastline when it emerges; though, perhaps Sandy will still be a hurricane. I wouldn't rule out just below hurricane intensity when it emerges, though that isn't what the NHC is calling. Baroclinic forcing may start to really inject energy into this thing as it moves through the Bahamas, so it could easily regain the intensity it will have pre-Cuban coastline landfall.

Edit: I just noticed forward motion has increased to 13 mph and looking at satellite, it may be moving a bit faster even. Forward motion is such that 10-12 hours over land seems way to long. More like 7-9 hours tops even if this gets a more NNW motion. So obviously that bodes well for the core remaining at hurricane intensity.

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DEEP-LAYER TROUGH MOVING INTO THE EASTERN UNITED STATES SHOULD

STEER THE MERGED SYSTEM GENERALLY NORTHEASTWARD. THE GUIDANCE

BECOMES DIVERGENT AFTER 96 HR...WITH THE ECMWF/GFDL/NOGAPS TURNING

THE CYCLONE NORTHWESTWARD...AND THE GFS/HWRF SHOWING A

NORTHEASTWARD MOTION. OVERALL...THE GUIDANCE ENVELOPE HAS SHIFTED

EASTWARD SINCE THE PREVIOUS ADVISORY. HOWEVER...THIS IS IN PART

DUE TO A LARGE CHANGE IN THE GFS FORECAST AFTER 72 HR. THUS...THE

NEW FORECAST WILL SHIFTED ONLY A LITTLE TO THE EAST DURING THIS

TIME...AND IT LIES TO THE WEST OF THE CONSENSUS MODELS. HOWEVER...

IT REMAINS EAST OF THE ECMWF/NOGAPS/GFDL MODELS.

Are they smoking? The only thing that shift east was the GFS. lol

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