nzucker Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Berks actually did eventually change in the Feb 24 event, but not until the very end. They did get rain in that one too. Feb 25 was almost all rain in the berks, but they stayed that 35F type rain which didn't kill the snowpack like a 45F rain would. The warmth got so far north in the 2/25/10 storm...there were 6C 850s all the way into Quebec, and even the Green Mountains changed to all rain. It even started as rain driving back in the North Country; after we'd gotten the 20" in 2/24, it was already raining as far north as GFL in the early morning hours of 2/25 when I was driving home. Middlebury didn't see a flake from the 2/25 retrograde event, stayed rain at the valley floor and we went from 20" snowpack to 5" in a hurry. The orientation of the warmth was unusual; as I drove south, mixed precipitation started to enter into the picture, but you could already see how warm it was going to get in the North Country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Berks actually did eventually change in the Feb 24 event, but not until the very end. They did get rain in that one too. Feb 25 was almost all rain in the berks, but they stayed that 35F type rain which didn't kill the snowpack like a 45F rain would. Heh, I hope he gets a rainstorm in that town-in-NH-I've-never-heard-of-before while we get buried here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 Heh, I hope he gets a rainstorm in that town-in-NH-I've-never-heard-of-before while we get buried here Unlikely, that Feb 25, 2010 storm was probably a 1 in 200 year storm with a formation like that and its strength...you might see a similar setup again but New England would snow anyway with a bit fresher cold airmass. Socks will become insufferable in Rindge over the next couple years I'm sure. He's in almost the best spot possible for snow in the BOX CWA and even can make fun of skiMRG from time to time...so he will remind us how good it is. If you thought Mt. Zucker was bad in the NYC thread...just wait until he unleashes his wrath on us for being in Rindge, NH at 1250-1300 feet. What an amazing spot for snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Unlikely, that Feb 25, 2010 storm was probably a 1 in 200 year storm with a formation like that and its strength...you might see a similar setup again but New England would snow anyway with a bit fresher cold airmass. Socks will become insufferable in Rindge over the next couple years I'm sure. He's in almost the best spot possible for snow in the BOX CWA and even can make fun of skiMRG from time to time...so he will remind us how good it is. If you thought Mt. Zucker was bad in the NYC thread...just wait until he unleashes his wrath on us for being in Rindge, NH at 1250-1300 feet. What an amazing spot for snow. I'll be home like half the winter though, so I'll have to make due with the ministrations of the climate at Mt.Zucker...We have 4 weeks off for XMAS and a few weeks in February, so I'll spend a good portion of the winter back with my family in my hometown. I might make a trip up to Montreal/Quebec City during one part of February break, but I'm sure I'll also want to relax with my friends from NYC and see my parents, who have been away all summer too. I'm not sure all of New England could get snow with that strength/track (2/25/10) even in an arctic airmass....a 970mb low retrograding back inland from making landfall on the RI/CT border is trouble for a lot of people here. You'd definitely start as snow from ORH north though; it might even up like March 1993 in some cases while the higher interior of SNE gets 20" despite an unfavorable track...but you're always going to get the best snows on the west side of the low pressure, and you're always going to have warmth closer to the coast punching in from the ocean when such a strong system comes onshore. Groton got up to 60F I believe in that event, so it wasn't even close for many of the locations here. Obviously, the extreme west-based -NAO had cut off Canada's cold as well, so that is an aspect to be considered, Will. Of course you might not get the storm to begin with if you didn't have an anomalous NAO block retrograding across Canada and trapping an ULL at a latitude it normally wouldn't be comfortable retrograding at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Unlikely, that Feb 25, 2010 storm was probably a 1 in 200 year storm with a formation like that and its strength...you might see a similar setup again but New England would snow anyway with a bit fresher cold airmass. Socks will become insufferable in Rindge over the next couple years I'm sure. He's in almost the best spot possible for snow in the BOX CWA and even can make fun of skiMRG from time to time...so he will remind us how good it is. If you thought Mt. Zucker was bad in the NYC thread...just wait until he unleashes his wrath on us for being in Rindge, NH at 1250-1300 feet. What an amazing spot for snow. Oh, I dont mind if YOU get 2 feet of snow, but he's a TRAITOR and must be punished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Oh, I dont mind if YOU get 2 feet of snow, but he's a TRAITOR and must be punished It's pretty much impossible for Will to get snow while Rindge NH rains...I'm almost due north of him and have 500' elevation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Unlikely, that Feb 25, 2010 storm was probably a 1 in 200 year storm with a formation like that and its strength...you might see a similar setup again but New England would snow anyway with a bit fresher cold airmass. Socks will become insufferable in Rindge over the next couple years I'm sure. He's in almost the best spot possible for snow in the BOX CWA and even can make fun of skiMRG from time to time...so he will remind us how good it is. If you thought Mt. Zucker was bad in the NYC thread...just wait until he unleashes his wrath on us for being in Rindge, NH at 1250-1300 feet. What an amazing spot for snow. I'm trying to remember all the storms that could have done that-- the only ones I remember right away are March 1888, the Millenium storm and that one. A NYC screw job that hits both DC and Boston like the Vet Day 1987 storm is much more likely, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 It's pretty much impossible for Will to get snow while Rindge NH rains...I'm almost due north of him and have 500' elevation. Isn't that exactly what happened during Feb 2010 but further south? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 I'll be home like half the winter though, so I'll have to make due with the ministrations of the climate at Mt.Zucker...We have 4 weeks off for XMAS and a few weeks in February, so I'll spend a good portion of the winter back with my family in my hometown. I might make a trip up to Montreal/Quebec City during one part of February break, but I'm sure I'll also want to relax with my friends from NYC and see my parents, who have been away all summer too. I'm not sure all of New England could get snow with that strength/track (2/25/10) even in an arctic airmass....a 970mb low retrograding back inland from making landfall on the RI/CT border is trouble for a lot of people here. You'd definitely start as snow from ORH north though; it might even up like March 1993 in some cases while the higher interior of SNE gets 20" despite an unfavorable track...but you're always going to get the best snows on the west side of the low pressure, and you're always going to have warmth closer to the coast punching in from the ocean when such a strong system comes onshore. Groton got up to 60F I believe in that event, so it wasn't even close for many of the locations here. Obviously, the extreme west-based -NAO had cut off Canada's cold as well, so that is an aspect to be considered, Will. Of course you might not get the storm to begin with if you didn't have an anomalous NAO block retrograding across Canada and trapping an ULL at a latitude it normally wouldn't be comfortable retrograding at. If it was colder, we'd get a lot of snow...but you are right that the track might have been different...but its not unprecedented. 1888 was similar but colder....but a colder storm would be a little more east. Anyway its silly to speculate on that storm because it happens so rarely. We spent a good portion of that event with +2 850s before the warm surge, so a colder airmass certainly would have been some snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I'm trying to remember all the storms that could have done that-- the only ones I remember right away are March 1888, the Millenium storm and that one. A NYC screw job that hits both DC and Boston like the Vet Day 1987 storm is much more likely, huh? Parts of New England did well in March 1888 however...New Haven had 48" for example... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 It's pretty much impossible for Will to get snow while Rindge NH rains...I'm almost due north of him and have 500' elevation. This is correct...a 2/25 storm in the perfect spot might do it like when Danbury was getting rain while you were snowing...but that type of track is so rare. Most of the time when ORH finds a way to beat Rindge its because the storms were too far south for Rindge ala 1993-1994, 2004-2005, 2005-2006, and last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Isn't that exactly what happened during Feb 2010 but further south? I'm also further west though in Rindge, NH than ORH...the longitudinal gradient was in effect for 2/25/10, so ORH could change to rain while NYC snowed. But I have a longitude, latitude, and elevation advantage on Will's home when I'm in Rindge so a storm couldn't really be snow there and rain at my place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Parts of New England did well in March 1888 however...New Haven had 48" for example... Yes, but I didn't mean the entire geographical boundary lol-- I'm just looking for storms that had an east-west cut off for rain vs snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 Parts of New England did well in March 1888 however...New Haven had 48" for example... ORH has 32" while BOS had 12"...the ORH total is unofficial however since records werent kept until 1892. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 This is correct...a 2/25 storm in the perfect spot might do it like when Danbury was getting rain while you were snowing...but that type of track is so rare. Most of the time when ORH finds a way to beat Rindge its because the storms were too far south for Rindge ala 1993-1994, 2004-2005, 2005-2006, and last year. So basically you need a strong -NAO. BTW did you look up the totals for December 1904? They are outlandish-- basically you had Saranac Lake with 5 inches of snow the entire month, with Albany getting a foot, NYC had around 2 feet, while the Hamptons had 57"! I guess that's the kind of pattern you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Yes, but I didn't mean the entire geographical boundary lol-- I'm just looking for storms that had an east-west cut off for rain vs snow. March 1993 and XMAS 2002 are other examples... Anyway I am going to get some sleep, catch you guys soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 March 1993 and XMAS 2002 are other examples... Anyway I am going to get some sleep, catch you guys soon! Both of those storms had a decent N/S cutoff in SNE. They weren;t really E/W...more like SSE/NNW or in the case of 12/25/02, more SE to NW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 I'd love hear about some really intense storms that I am missing. I bet I'm missing some "off season" storms like spring and fall that produced big coastal flooding and winds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Will one storm worth mentioning, but the winds were more for se mass and the Cape, was April 19th...1997. That storm had a gust to 97 at FMH and 87 on ACK. Lots of damage from that in se mass and the Cape. That storm still hides under the shadow of April Fools blizzard, but it packed a wallop. Don't forget how East Jewitt NY was AGAIN buried with 21". Here is a little writeup on that. "-A major coastal storm was in its second day over the Northeast and deepened to 971 millibars east of Cape Cod. Winds gusts hit 97 mph at Falmouth, Massachusetts and 87 mph on Nantucket Island. Portsmouth, New Hampshire was deluged with 4.07 inches of rain. Heavy snow occurred inland. East Jewitt, New York was buried under 21 inches of snow and 15.8 inches was recorded at Huntington Center, Vermont. Burlington, Vermont had 8.5 inches for its greatest snowfall for so late in the season." NCDC http://www4.ncdc.noa...howEvent~291461 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Also, the Dec 23-24 1994 event was one of those most powerful storms I've witnessed. Word on the street is the NHC has been looking at that since it had warm core characteristics! I had quite a bit of damage at my house in Brockton and lost power for about 8 hrs in that. I mean how often do you have a storm se of the Cape, and not one flake fall in New England...in December no less! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I know you are using 70+mph winds, but man the Boxing day storm had such strong winds in a large area. ORE 50+kts! I know a mesosite in Scituate had gusts to 70, but I think it was Eastham that had a gust to 80. I would give a nudge to Boxing Day just for the ridiculous areal coverage of strong winds. This thread is a fooking great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski MRG Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Nah, you actually got rained on for most of that storm...you got snow in the Feb 23-24 part and the aftermath when it occluded on the 26-27....you rained heavy on Feb 25th during the brunt of it. The rain got to Albany. Nasty screwjob. BTW, I remember the rainy interlude between the heavy snow. It wasn't a straight rain though, it was perpetually mixed with fat cats paws and did little to dent the 24" that fell at the start of the storm. In fact by the end of that Thursday it switched to all snow and we picked 1/2'. That Friday into Sat we picked up an additional 14" for a 38" take for the event. I view that as a long duration event not the several distinct parts you have correctly dissected it into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahk_webstah Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I was in a strong noreaster on the midcoast of main on sept 4 1995. The temp dropped to 45 in mid afternoon and winds gusted past 60. Were there not some strong noreasters that fall that laid down the train tracks for the coastal season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahk_webstah Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Feb 2006? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Also, the Dec 23-24 1994 event was one of those most powerful storms I've witnessed. Word on the street is the NHC has been looking at that since it had warm core characteristics! I had quite a bit of damage at my house in Brockton and lost power for about 8 hrs in that. I mean how often do you have a storm se of the Cape, and not one flake fall in New England...in December no less! Absolutely intense storm, worth a reanalysis too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Ash Wednesday 1962 Extensive damage to trees and structures and beach erosion was also reported along the southern New England coast, particularly along coastal Rhode Island, and in New London and Fairfield Counties in Connecticut, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Dec 6th and 8th of 1996, technically the 6th was a Noreaster while the 8th cut through the area resulting in very strong SE Winds on the coast. 2/24/98 One Norwester that was sick was March 6th 1997. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I was thinking earlier today about compiling a list of strongest nor' easters....but they don't have to be snowstorms necessarily. Its hard to find a list of these, so I thought I would make one we can reference. I will undoubtedly miss some intense storms, so everyone can chip in if they remember some very intense ones that aren't listed. I'm mainly using wind criteria for these. Feb 25, 2010 (we hate it because it screwed us for snow, but that was a ridiculous storm for wind) Nov 3, 2007 (Noel remnants) April 14-15, 2007 Dec 9, 2005 Jan 22-23, 2005 Mar 31-Apr 1, 1997 December 23-24, 1994 March 3, 1994 March 13-14, 1993 December 11-12, 1992 October 27-31, 1991 March 28-29, 1984 February 5-7, 1978 I only went back to 1978 because I know that I will miss a ton before that, and I probably already left out a lot. I purposely left out some strong nor' easters because they weren't THAT strong...storms like the ones we saw this last winter though Boxing Day I might be able to include on that list....it probably should be actually. Also storms like Jan 1996 werent overly powerful in New England. I debated putting March 4-6, 2001 on there but I didn't think it had enough oomph to it to make the list. Its max wind gusts remained under 70mph IIRC. March 2010... best noreaster ever for you know who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 March 2010... best noreaster ever for you know who. I think Will is looking for intense wind and weather producers. Another standout was Jan 1977 Arctic cold Noreaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapturedNature Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I'd love hear about some really intense storms that I am missing. I bet I'm missing some "off season" storms like spring and fall that produced big coastal flooding and winds. What about April 28, 1987 & October 4, 1987? I'm not sure why I don't remember some of the coastal details, but I know that they set some records. I was at Lyndon at the time and I guess I wasn't paying too much attention down on the coast....I know that weren't huge, but they did bring early and late snows, all in the same year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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