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Pattern Change thread


ORH_wxman

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i'm sure we'll see things stabilize one way or the other in a few more days. nice example the last few days of why ens. are so useful and op runs can be like a dart board beyond 5 days.

what a chaotic mess though. that NAO configuration is stupidly strong.

op run has consistently had a further west -NAO block but yeah... interested in seeing what the 12z euro ensembles have

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Obviously a bogus Euro run today..We'll see it flip back to reality tonight to match it's own ensembles

Why's it bogus? It just pumps up the SE ridge a bit more before the cold comes in. I think the threat of a Monday-Wednesday torch was always there. Ensembles had it too... the severity of the torch was unclear.

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Wouldn't the Pacific end up being more of a driver for us this winter rather than the NAO? Considering how strong the Nina is and will probably be for a good chunk of the winter if we end up seeing a -PNA/+EPO setup wouldn't that just act to deflect most of the cold air to our north? We could at times get some it it to work into the Northeast but I feel as if the PAcific will be the ultimate decider as to what happens.

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Why's it bogus? It just pumps up the SE ridge a bit more before the cold comes in. I think the threat of a Monday-Wednesday torch was always there. Ensembles had it too... the severity of the torch was unclear.

Agreed...even the GFS and the ensembles showed this brief period of warmth as heights get pumped up a bit before the Arctic front comes plowing through. Both sets of models also agree on the front passing through sometime in the Thursday-Friday timeframe.

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Why's it bogus? It just pumps up the SE ridge a bit more before the cold comes in. I think the threat of a Monday-Wednesday torch was always there. Ensembles had it too... the severity of the torch was unclear.

Because I don't think we see a 3 day torch with highs in the 60's and 70's. There's alot of cold lurking north and my guess is we see that boundary come south and either across SNE or south of us in subsequent runs. It may get a little above normal..I just highly doubt any torch like we had this weekend

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Wouldn't the Pacific end up being more of a driver for us this winter rather than the NAO? Considering how strong the Nina is and will probably be for a good chunk of the winter if we end up seeing a -PNA/+EPO setup wouldn't that just act to deflect most of the cold air to our north? We could at times get some it it to work into the Northeast but I feel as if the PAcific will be the ultimate decider as to what happens.

well if the NAO ended up like this all winter...i think we'd be OK. LOL.

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Because I don't think we see a 3 day torch with highs in the 60's and 70's. There's alot of cold lurking north and my guess is we see that boundary come south and either across SNE or south of us in susequent runs. It may get a little above normal..I just highly doubt any torch like we had this weekend

Well I don't think 70s are likely at all but we're digging a massive west coast trough first... I think that favors a pretty raging SE ridge especially given the fact we're in a La Nina pattern.

Rolling forward I think the op Euro is pretty solid for a snow event here around Thanksgiving.

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well if the NAO ended up like this all winter...i think we'd be OK. LOL.

Oh yeah if it were to be THIS negative that would certainly increase our chances but I'm not sure if I'm willing to bank on that occurring, plus if it did stay that way and suppressed things to our south than we might run into the same issue we did last year. Given the strength of the Nina though I'm not sure if we will see something like this occur...I can't think of something like that occurring in other moderate/strong Nina winters.

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<br />Well I don't think 70s are likely at all but we're digging a massive west coast trough first... I think that favors a pretty raging SE ridge especially given the fact we're in a La Nina pattern.<br /><br />Rolling forward I think the op Euro is pretty solid for a snow event here around Thanksgiving.<br />

As we thought

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<br />I'd rather get 3 days in the 60s Monday-Wednesday and wind up with a pattern that favors something wintry by Friday.<br />

Exactly people forget last year before the Dec 5 th storm we were in the. Summer mode. To me this evolution is perfect. Ii would love to see that block stagnate for 12 weeks or so, LOL,.

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at least there's lots of cold in canada. certainly a good starting point as we push into the end of this month. who knows the specifics of how it all works out later next week and beyond.

one thing is, you can see nicely though how long it can take to really get a new weather pattern established.

LOL yeah. It's funny because by day 5 the pattern across noam completely flips but it takes until like day 11 or 12 to even see a sensible weather change in sne. We're starting with a the GOA ridge developing that plunges cold into the west... until the NAO gets established and is able to beat down the downstream SE Ridge do we start seeing things swing around.

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Exactly people forget last year before the Dec 5 th storm we were in the. Summer mode. To me this evolution is perfect. Ii would love to see that block stagnate for 12 weeks or so, LOL,.

Part of it is annoying because we waste the first 5 days of the -NAO with a SE ridge in response to the huge -PNA pattern. So we def don't have the classic +PNA/-NAO dump... we're battling a bad looking west coast of CONUS which is why I favor a early next week torch before we cool off.

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We just better hope that the NAO does indeed tank like the GFS/Euro as well as their ensembles have been advertising, looks like we will be stuck in a -PNA pattern for the time-being (not surprising given the state of the Nina) and looks like the EPO will turn positive around the time the NAO is expected to tank. If the NAO does not get this negative though we can probably throw away all this cold talk and maybe folks in NNE would be able to get lucky.

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The longer it gets pushed back the less cold of a pattern it will be..so if you're hoping it holds off till late month..then you're gonna end warmer than you want. Better to get it in here early and stick

I don't think that's happening then. I think we won't get super cold... but enough for snow.

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Anyone else surprised that our first legit "cold threat" is being muted by a SE ridge that is flexing it's torch muscle?

La Fail.

The next 3 weeks probably is our BEST chance to get pounded with snows...we can hope in March but we'll get to that road as we get closer.

Considering the indications by some of the long-range guys on here about where the NAO will wind up as we move into and through winter it doesn't really bode well for us.

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