michsnowfreak

Interesting. How is that different from a Snow Squall Warning i wonder?

I would say no. November 1997 was very cold. December was more wintry in 1997. Jan started out very warm. Feb was a torch.

The fact that you engage with a troll that everyone wants banned pretty much ruins your credibility. What you're not realizing, however, is that the data you post (as cherry picked as some of it is) only makes your troll friend look more idiotic and tells us things we already know. He does not believe in ever so slowly steadily climbing temperature averages that most do, and no one here denies. He alleges that our winters are warming like 30° in a few decades. All you have to do is look at some of his previous posts. Oh, and that's another thing, those rising averages here are due to summer, not winter. January+ february temperatures are literally flatlined the past 100 years at detroit. In the last 10 years, Detroit has seen: 40 record highs 30 record warm Lows 21 record Lows 10 record cold highs What's interesting is that most of the record Lows have been in the cold season.

All of michigan had snow on halloween, and almost none of michigan will have snow on christmas.

Winter of 2011-12 sucked, make no mistake about that. In fact, it is my least snowy winter (25.5" in 29 years of keeping track) However, there are 2 things that really make that the poster child for sucky winters, and that is a combination of the record warmth in March which literally stopped winter at the end of February, and with the fact that that winter was surrounded by a period of unusually severe winters. When you look back at 150 years of winters, there were many great ones and many duds, but they all had their own unique character. These days, it's actually become a pet peeve of mine that anytime we are in a sucky mild pattern, you hear the inevitable "2011-12, 2011-12". November 2011 was warm and record wet. November 2023 was cool and top 20 record dry. November 2011 had no winter until the very last day when a flooding rainstorm turned to wet snow in places. November 2023 had a period of wintry weather. December 2011, while very mild overall, was fairly active and did at least have several wintry systems. December 2023 is warm and mostly zzzz. And winter is just beginning. Way way too early to tell if it's going to have a good comeback or end up an overall dud, but i could probably find dozens of better matches to date than 2011-12.

This winter is nothing like 2011-12 so far.

The amount of unusually snowy February's we have has been just as impressive as the mundane december's. And sun angle has never been an issue in a wintry pattern. Unless you're talking about an inch of 40-1 ratio fluff that melts away under the late february sun on a thirty degree day.

That winter was crazy in that we did so much better in Detroit than you guys did in Toledo, but then further north towards Flint they actually had a snowy winter. Talk about gradient. Toledo did have SOME light snows, but the lnly worthwfile storm was that April 8 incher. I remember as it was opening day for the detroit tigers, I had tix and was watching weather closely for a snow out. We had a dusting up here, but the heavy snow stayed just to our south.

I agree 100%. I wish I studied for exams back in college half as much as i've studied detroit's weather data history, I would have aced every single thing. It's fascinating to see different trends in weather over the years. I always say, winters are like the snowflakes they produce: no two are the same. But there have been certain decadal trends that are sometimes seen. A lot of people have unrealistic expectations for winter to begin with, but ever since our stretch of great winters in the Midwest, computer model accessibility for free, and media hype, it has gotten even worse.

Actually, looks like Toronto's on a stretch of above average snow seasons per your sig.

It's hard to believe that winter was ten years ago. It truly was incredible. It actually defied the odds in terms of getting so much snow with such cold weather.

So true. Quite a few wintry Novembers have preceded blah Decembers the past decade.

The irony of someone who has palms in an area that only stays frost free for 5 months of the year using the word "delusional".

Oh I definitely think Feb is the best month of winter this year, as has been the case often recently. I think too many are confusing a change around new years as meaning arctic cold. No one is saying that. Just get me a more seasonable pattern and im happy. You and I EASILY can get snow in above avg patterns. The midatlantic usually needs some cold, which looks like they may have some colder anomalies. It basically increases snow chances for all while waiting for a deep winter pattern.

Can you elaborate lol?

Lol. But it's definitely good to see that the flushing out of the anamolous warmth shortly after christmas has not been "can kicked" down the road.

I was referring more down the road several weeks.

Thanks for the links, I'll save them! When you go from having a snow machine in your backyard to painting your grass green & having palm trees in a humid continental climate, lmao. But yes, his posts are all trolling. This december will likely be a top 5 warm December. We've only had 2 good cold and snowy Decembers the last decade, we've done actually decent with White Christmases, but December themselves have left much to be desired. What's really interesting is that we have no problem consistently getting early and late season snowflakes (Oct/May), November cold snaps and snowfalls, and loads of snow in February, but it's like pulling teeth to get a good December. Detroit's winter warming over the last 100 years is entirely from December, as Jan (-0.5°) and Feb (+0.5°) are a wash. There have actually been many winters in the past where december was by far the most severe winter month.. That did happen more recently in 2000, 2005, & 2016, but for the most part it's as if We are two completely different climates in december and february.

March Nino snowstorms are definitely common. You would still see snow in a colder pattern in Jan/Feb tho. Remember, you arent in Atlanta anymore lol.

I got 37.1" of snow in a +5.0F winter last year. Temps are not the end all to begin with for people north of 40N. But when it comes to those temp departure maps, people really start to lose focus when getting hung up on departures. When you see Canada reds and southeast blues....its still way colder in Canada than the southeast. Average Jan high/low is 14/0 in Winnipeg, 13/-6 in Saskatoon, 0/-15 in Yellowknife....versus 43/25 in DC, 47/28 in Richmond, 53/33 in Atlanta.

A lot of people here say the same thing, It seems like the seasons are getting pushed later. I look at it as an annoying december reprieve. We have no problem getting early and late snows, but Dec has become less harsh and Feb more harsh. Though we won't this year, we actually have lucked out quite a bit here with White Christmases, but the decembers themselves have mostly sucked outside of 2 the last decade. Meanwhile, February (outside of a couple of clunkers) has been snow heaven.

Dec has been horrendous. We had snow on Halloween, snow Thanksgiving weekend, and will have absolutely no snow Christmas week. Hope its a white easter lol. Obviously winter will come, but the snowbelts in the North may suffer most of all, because they're the ones who rely on stacking feet upon feet and they have no base to start with.

That's why i'm so into weather stats. Weather has always been fascinating and always will be. I brought up the record warmth In December of 1877 & 1881. But adding on to that, the winters of 1877-78, 1879-80, and 1881-82 were very mild winters that featured at least 1 or 2 record warm winter months. Sandwiched between those were brutally cold winters of 1878-79 and 1880-81. I can't imagine what was going on with the jet stream and all other factors that 5 year stretch.

I would assume

boston doesnt even keep track of snowcover anymore. And how can they lose 30-days when they only averaged 35-40 days (1"+) to begin with. I mean I dont live there, but sounds like a bunch of crap to me. Here is nyc avg days with 1" snowcover NYC 1920s- 29 days 1930s- 21 days 1940s- 32 days 1950s- 15 days 1960s- 28 days 1970s- 25 days 1980s- 19 days 1990s- M 2000s- 20 days 2010s- 27 days