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September 2025 OBS-Discussion centered NYC subforum


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Just now, Sundog said:

There are studies that show the benefits of light and noise pollution? Or you mean living in a big city?

I'd love to know what these positives are considering it's a completely artificial environment.

It’s better from a traffic, air pollution perspective. Also proper urban planning is the best for the environment 

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13 minutes ago, psv88 said:

It’s better from a traffic, air pollution perspective. Also proper urban planning is the best for the environment 

but asthma rates are the highest in big cities and that has been directly connected to why the the pandemic was so much worse in the parts of the city that are most highly trafficked.

densely packed cities means more air pollution (mainly due to increased traffic)

 

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6 minutes ago, psv88 said:

Densely packed cities are best for the environment. The light pollution argument is ridiculous. Most people have curtains and suburbs have street lights too. 
 

as for noise pollution that is a different story, but most people who live in the city are not impacted 

If most people who live in a city are not impacted, then who is impacted?

I have planes flying over my head constantly and I'm 4 miles east of the airport, even places like Mineola get affected, it's a major quality of life issue. 

The local councilwoman is suing the FAA for jamming 13,000 flights in a month and flying planes 1000 feet lower because of newer tech. 

It's driving me crazy. 

You want to trade since noise isn't a real issue that doesn't affect most?

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2 minutes ago, psv88 said:

It’s better from a traffic, air pollution perspective. Also proper urban planning is the best for the environment 

Traffic and environment wise yes, physical and mental health wise, no. 

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5 minutes ago, psv88 said:

Densely packed cities are best for the environment. The light pollution argument is ridiculous. Most people have curtains and suburbs have street lights too. 
 

as for noise pollution that is a different story, but most people who live in the city are not impacted 

you'd need black out curtains not regular curtains.  Even that sometimes isn't enough.  There is a lawsuit against light pollution going on currently from an apartment complex in the city because the outside lights strobe right in through the windows and even wearing eyepatches isn't enough.

Light pollution is highly wasteful and has not proven to help reduce crime at all, if anything it helps criminals see better in the dark ;)

 

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Just now, LibertyBell said:

you'd need black out curtains not regular curtains.  Even that sometimes isn't enough.  There is a lawsuit against light pollution going on currently from an apartment complex in the city because the outside lights strobe right in through the windows and even wearing eyepatches isn't enough.

Light pollution is highly wasteful and has not proven to help reduce crime at all, if anything it helps criminals see better in the dark ;)

 

I have black out curtains out here. No problem 

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4 minutes ago, Sundog said:

Traffic and environment wise yes, physical and mental health wise, no. 

this assumes that people aren't driving, unfortunately too many people drive through the city and the NO2 pollution from that makes asthma rates worse.

The ideal solution (better than either traffic or mass transit) is to walk or bike ride.  Maybe that's what PSV means? Make our cities more walkable and amenable to bike riding like they do in Europe? Their food is far healthier too (far less processed).

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2 minutes ago, psv88 said:

I have black out curtains out here. No problem 

I do too, it's better on Long Island.  In Manhattan it might not be enough.

I agree with you about smart city planning being ideal.

From my previous post:

The ideal solution (better than either traffic or mass transit) is to walk or bike ride.  Maybe that's what PSV means? Make our cities more walkable and amenable to bike riding like they do in Europe? Their food is far healthier too (far less processed).

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6 minutes ago, Sundog said:

If most people who live in a city are not impacted, then who is impacted?

I have planes flying over my head constantly and I'm 4 miles east of the airport, even places like Mineola get affected, it's a major quality of life issue. 

The local councilwoman is suing the FAA for jamming 13,000 flights in a month and flying planes 1000 feet lower because of newer tech. 

It's driving me crazy. 

You want to trade since noise isn't a real issue that doesn't affect most?

lol you sound like me

at least there are less planes flying over here late at night.

it starts up around 5 am though

 

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13 minutes ago, psv88 said:

Densely packed cities are best for the environment. The light pollution argument is ridiculous. Most people have curtains and suburbs have street lights too. 
 

as for noise pollution that is a different story, but most people who live in the city are not impacted 

yeah suburban street lights suck too, especially the new LED broadband lights they've installed.

Just using myself as an example I sleep at least 2-3 hours more when I'm in the Poconos and it's pitch black there no noise no lights.  (Not only are there no street lights there, there aren't even any traffic lights lol.)

 

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11 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

yeah suburban street lights suck too, especially the new LED broadband lights they've installed.

Just using myself as an example I sleep at least 2-3 hours more when I'm in the Poconos and it's pitch black there no noise no lights.  (Not only are there no street lights there, there aren't even any traffic lights lol.)

 

I hate the new white LED lights they put everywhere over the last 10 years. 

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14 minutes ago, Sundog said:

I hate the new white LED lights they put everywhere over the last 10 years. 

it's hard to block them with light pollution filters for astrophotography too.

I used to use narrowband filters because sodium and mercury vapor street lamps only emit light in discrete wavelengths but broadband LED lights transmit over the entire visible spectrum =\

they also have health implications because the lights are brighter and higher frequency while sodium and mercury vapor lights are yellow and orange which are lower frequency and easier to sleep in and also dimmer.

The only good thing about LED lights is that they are part of *smart lighting* so they can be turned off automatically when people are sleeping or even set automatically by a motion detector so if there are no people walking nearby they stay off and only turn on when they detect motion.  I would hope they turn them off at 11 PM.

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16 minutes ago, FPizz said:

My street and most of the town don't have any streetlights.  Love it.  So peaceful during the evening and at night. Thought it was weird when I moved here 9 years ago, but now wouldn't want to go back.

wow you live in Nirvana.  Smart thinking too, as streetlights don't increase safety or security.

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Parts of the region again reached 80° today before clouds moved in. Central Park (80°), Islip, and Newark (81°) all reached at least 80°.

A low pressure system will move along a nearly stationary front tomorrow. As a result, rain will develop tonight and continue into Friday.

A general 0.50"-1.50" rainfall is likely during this period in New York City and nearby suburbs. Some locations could see higher amounts in excess of 2.00". The potential for an area of 1.00"-3.00" rainfall exists for parts of Connecticut and Massachusetts.

Above normal temperatures will continue through at least the coming weekend.

In addition, one or two tropical cyclones could develop in the western Atlantic in coming days. The extent of ridging to the north and interaction with a potential second system could ultimately determine whether one of these systems poses an eventual threat to a portion of the Southeast or stays out to sea.

The potential Fujiwhara interaction would be unusual for the Atlantic basin. Typically, if the stronger system is to the right or east of the weaker one (possibly Invest. 94 as per most of the guidance at present), the stronger system will tend to deflect the weaker one northward and eastward sooner than might otherwise be the case. If both systems are of similar strength, they can rotate counterclockwise around a midpoint roughly between the centers of the two storms as they move along the steering flow. Then, there's low but not zero probability of a subsequent shift in the steering currents that could turn the storm back toward the coast as depicted on the 9/24 12z ECMWF. 

For now, the potential development and evolution of pair of tropical cyclones bears watching. 

The ENSO Region 1+2 anomaly was 0.0°C and the Region 3.4 anomaly was -0.4°C for the week centered around September 17. For the past six weeks, the ENSO Region 1+2 anomaly has averaged -0.03°C and the ENSO Region 3.4 anomaly has averaged -0.38°C. La Niña conditions will likely develop during mid- or late-autumn.

The SOI was +2.62 today. 

The preliminary Arctic Oscillation (AO) was +0.889 today. 

Based on sensitivity analysis applied to the latest guidance, there is an implied near 75% probability that New York City will have a warmer than normal September (1991-2020 normal). September will likely finish with a mean temperature near 69.8° (0.6° above normal). 

Supplemental Information: The projected mean would be 1.8° above the 1981-2010 normal monthly value.

 

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Just now, donsutherland1 said:

Parts of the region again reached 80° today before clouds moved in. Central Park (80°), Islip, and Newark (81°) all reached at least 80°.

A low pressure system will move along a nearly stationary front tomorrow. As a result, rain will develop tonight and continue into Friday.

A general 0.50"-1.50" rainfall is likely during this period in New York City and nearby suburbs. Some locations could see higher amounts in excess of 2.00". The potential for an area of 1.00"-3.00" rainfall exists for parts of Connecticut and Massachusetts.

Above normal temperatures will continue through at least the coming weekend.

In addition, one or two tropical cyclones could develop in the western Atlantic in coming days. The extent of ridging to the north and interaction with a potential second system could ultimately determine whether one of these systems poses an eventual threat to a portion of the Southeast or stays out to sea.

The potential Fujiwhara interaction would be unusual for the Atlantic basin. Typically, if the stronger system is to the right or east of the weaker one (possibly Invest. 94 as per most of the guidance at present), the stronger system will tend to deflect the weaker one northward and eastward sooner than might otherwise be the case. If both systems are of similar strength, they can rotate counterclockwise around a midpoint roughly between the centers of the two storms as they move along the steering flow. Then, there's low but not zero probability of a subsequent shift in the steering currents that could turn the storm back toward the coast as depicted on the 9/24 12z ECMWF. 

For now, the potential development and evolution of pair of tropical cyclones bears watching. 

The ENSO Region 1+2 anomaly was 0.0°C and the Region 3.4 anomaly was -0.4°C for the week centered around September 17. For the past six weeks, the ENSO Region 1+2 anomaly has averaged -0.03°C and the ENSO Region 3.4 anomaly has averaged -0.38°C. La Niña conditions will likely develop during mid- or late-autumn.

The SOI was +2.62 today. 

The preliminary Arctic Oscillation (AO) was +0.889 today. 

Based on sensitivity analysis applied to the latest guidance, there is an implied near 75% probability that New York City will have a warmer than normal September (1991-2020 normal). September will likely finish with a mean temperature near 69.8° (0.6° above normal). 

Supplemental Information: The projected mean would be 1.8° above the 1981-2010 normal monthly value.

 

it's fascinating how a Fujiwara interaction is so reminiscent of a gravitational interaction between two celestial bodies in proximity to each other.

 

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1 hour ago, Sundog said:

If most people who live in a city are not impacted, then who is impacted?

I have planes flying over my head constantly and I'm 4 miles east of the airport, even places like Mineola get affected, it's a major quality of life issue. 

The local councilwoman is suing the FAA for jamming 13,000 flights in a month and flying planes 1000 feet lower because of newer tech. 

It's driving me crazy. 

You want to trade since noise isn't a real issue that doesn't affect most?

I actually got used to being right under the flight path for planes landing at JFK when I was back in Long Beach. But it was hard to ignore the Concorde which flew over my house every morning shortly after 9am coming into JFK. But kids think that kind of stuff if pretty cool anyway.

I live near a much smaller airport now and the flight path doesn’t go directly over my house. But it’s really cool walking around the airport and seeing all the takeoffs and landings. There is a dirt lot where the locals park to watch all the flights landing and taking off.

I still enjoy the low flyovers when walking on the sidewalk which crosses directly under the planes just off the end of the runway. I have noticed that the Boeing 737 is a much louder jet than the Airbus A 220. The airbus has more of a higher pitched whine and the Boeing is more of a deep roar. 

Had friends in the aviation business that would get to ride the jump seats on flights. 

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1 minute ago, LibertyBell said:

it's fascinating how a Fujiwara interaction is so reminiscent of a gravitational interaction between two celestial bodies in proximity to each other.

 

The same physics is involved (conservation of angular momentum) in a rotating system be they celestial bodies or tropical cyclones. 

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Just now, bluewave said:

I actually got used to being right under the flight path for planes landing at JFK when I was back in Long Beach. But it was hard to ignore the Concorde which flew over my house every morning shortly after 9am coming into JFK. But kids think that kind of stuff if pretty cool anyway.

I live near a much smaller airport now and the flight oath doesn’t go directly over my house. But it’s really cool walking around the airport and seeing all the takeoffs and landings. There is a dirt lot where the locals park to watch all the flights landing and taking off.

I still enjoy the low flyovers when walking on the sidewalk which crosses directly under the planes just off the end of the runway. I have noticed that the Boeing 737 is a much louder jet than the Airbus A 220. The airbus has more of a higher pitched whine and the Boeing is more of a deep roar. 

I had friends in the aviation business that would get to ride the jump seats on flights. 

Back when I was in high school the teachers hated it because they had to interrupt their teaching as the windows rattled and no one could hear anything.  I wonder if hearing damage can result from these kinds of loud noises? 

It's more annoying when it happens at night when you're trying to sleep although I notice there aren't many flights here between 11 pm and 5 am.

It messes up my astrophotography sometimes but I have software that removes airplane streaks from my pictures automatically (they are treated as bad pixels.)

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Just now, donsutherland1 said:

The same physics is involved (conservation of angular momentum) in a rotating system be they celestial bodies or tropical cyclones. 

Thanks this was going to be my next question, Don!

It's what caused me to conjecture that a universe could exist inside a spinning Kerr black hole (maybe ours as recent evidence indicates our universe is spinning) because there would be a calm *eye* at the center of such a spinning black hole that would be stable enough to house one.  In this case gravity would be the analog to wind.  

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6 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

Back when I was in high school the teachers hated it because they had to interrupt their teaching as the windows rattled and no one could hear anything.  I wonder if hearing damage can result from these kinds of loud noises? 

It's more annoying when it happens at night when you're trying to sleep although I notice there aren't many flights here between 11 pm and 5 am.

It messes up my astrophotography sometimes but I have software that removes airplane streaks from my pictures automatically (they are treated as bad pixels.)

I would spend half the time looking out of the windows of Lindell School which was right on the bay and under the flight landing path to JFK near the edge of Lawrence Marsh. We would also have the really big barges going by since that was such a busy waterway. I thought it was the coolest thing when the bay was nearly frozen across during all the cold winters growing up back in Long Beach.

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5 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

Thanks this was going to be my next question, Don!

It's what caused me to conjecture that a universe could exist inside a spinning Kerr black hole (maybe ours as recent evidence indicates our universe is spinning) because there would be a calm *eye* at the center of such a spinning black hole that would be stable enough to house one.  In this case gravity would be the analog to wind.  

Some have speculated toward that end. One article: 

https://www.space.com/space-exploration/james-webb-space-telescope/is-our-universe-trapped-inside-a-black-hole-this-james-webb-space-telescope-discovery-might-blow-your-mind

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1 minute ago, bluewave said:

I would spend half the time looking out of the windows of Lindell School which was right on the bay and under the flight landing path to JFK near the edge of Lawrence Marsh. We would also have the really big barges going by since that was such a busy waterway. I thought it was the coolest thing when the bay was nearly froze across during all the cold winters growing up back in Long Beach.

Sadly something we have not experienced much in recent years, when was the last time it was frozen-- February 2015?

 

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3 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

Thanks Don !  What a fascinating read ! Also possibly proof of a cyclic multiverse !

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