chubbs Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 9 hours ago, LibertyBell said: Humans are extremely resistant to change, this is what it comes down to. Ironically, in this case resisting change is accelerating change. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 hours ago, chubbs said: Ironically, in this case resisting change is accelerating change. True, since nature has no problems changing lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 3 hours ago, chubbs said: Ironically, in this case resisting change is accelerating change. Bingo! It's a perfect "execution" loop 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbs Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 A spot check of East/Gulf coast tide gauges shows an acceleration starting around 2010. Sea rise is accelerating globally, but not this fast. Change in ocean currents, as discussed above, a possible contributor. St Petersburg, FL Virginia Key, FL Ft Pulaski, GA Charleston, SC Atlantic City, NJ 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, chubbs said: A spot check of East/Gulf coast tide gauges shows an acceleration starting around 2010. Sea rise is accelerating globally, but not this fast. Change in ocean currents, as discussed above, a possible contributor. St Petersburg, FL Virginia Key, FL Ft Pulaski, GA Charleston, SC Atlantic City, NJ Yes I read that sea level is rising fastest along the east coast and the gulf coast, it's not a uniform rise everywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 On 2/22/2024 at 9:58 AM, Typhoon Tip said: Bingo! It's a perfect "execution" loop unfortunately we have been talking about ocean acidification and a mass extinction event (which we have already started), it's happened in the past, where up to 90% of life on the planet goes extinct as nature is trying to balance things out. ocean hypoxia is quite frightening, can you imagine all that life dying wow reaching temperature thresholds like 1.5 C and 2.0 C are the wrong things to talk about, the real danger is a runaway chemical process after reaching a tipping point or threshold and that runaway chemical process is what will cascade into something we can never come back from. the problem is not simply of temperatures, but of a runaway cascading chemical process from which there is no return 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csnavywx Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Solar and EV equity prices continue to be smashed, with the TAN ETF down 16% so far this year and 43% y/o/y. Even the best positioned companies are suffering pretty heavy balance sheet hits due to higher rates and higher capex costs, despite hardware component price declines. Domestic EV makers are being hit in particular due to slumping demand and are sensitive to higher financing costs. Unless those margins can be improved, R&D and capex will start taking a hit and these deployment rates are going to suffer as a result. Like I mentioned before, costs are important, but we live in a capitalist system -- profit margins are even more important! I was hoping we'd get some interest rate cuts this year, but the market is starting to price those back out as core inflation remains too sticky/resilient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbs Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 14 hours ago, csnavywx said: Solar and EV equity prices continue to be smashed, with the TAN ETF down 16% so far this year and 43% y/o/y. Even the best positioned companies are suffering pretty heavy balance sheet hits due to higher rates and higher capex costs, despite hardware component price declines. Domestic EV makers are being hit in particular due to slumping demand and are sensitive to higher financing costs. Unless those margins can be improved, R&D and capex will start taking a hit and these deployment rates are going to suffer as a result. Like I mentioned before, costs are important, but we live in a capitalist system -- profit margins are even more important! I was hoping we'd get some interest rate cuts this year, but the market is starting to price those back out as core inflation remains too sticky/resilient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 4 hours ago, chubbs said: It's nice to see some data ... (if the above proves veracious enough - ) that corroborates what I wrote about a few posts ago. Paraphrasing ... the transition to green power ( at least in our society ...) is so far completely wrongly incentivized. Really, these are just greedy, morally questionable at best venture enterprises. They are "gray-area sociopath" outfits, only seeing opportunity there that presupposes any kind of connection to why it is actually needed. These "solar programs" are a complete waste of time and only adding to the problem. There has to be a broadly sweeping, cost-controlled social program that diverts humanity's extinction pathway. I have a friend that is about to pull the trigger for a 58K installation cost, up on the roof-top of his sub-colonial sized suburban home. He's trying to argue that rebate programs will offset the coast... and how that and monthly loan repayment is less than paying for NGRID over the long haul. Okay, buuut... rebate programs (government) come from tax payers ultimately ... It's just redistributing the huckerstism, white-washing the background truth of how the econ mathematics works. He says as long as his monthly bills go down. This is stupid... sorry. It's wrong on both ends. He's not worried about GW in that arithmetic - he wants his monthly power bills to come down. The purveyors of Solar PV and so forth, aren't interested in offsetting GW ... they're seeing a profit wagon. They're not doing it for the right reason in other words. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbs Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Clean energy has become an economic growth engine for China as costs continue to tumble and foreign uptake increases. We are a laggard in an increasingly important economic race. https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-clean-energy-was-top-driver-of-chinas-economic-growth-in-2023/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClimateChanger Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 On 2/24/2024 at 6:01 AM, chubbs said: This is why crapitalism doesn't work and we need price regulations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 On 2/24/2024 at 9:58 AM, Typhoon Tip said: It's nice to see some data ... (if the above proves veracious enough - ) that corroborates what I wrote about a few posts ago. Paraphrasing ... the transition to green power ( at least in our society ...) is so far completely wrongly incentivized. Really, these are just greedy, morally questionable at best venture enterprises. They are "gray-area sociopath" outfits, only seeing opportunity there that presupposes any kind of connection to why it is actually needed. These "solar programs" are a complete waste of time and only adding to the problem. There has to be a broadly sweeping, cost-controlled social program that diverts humanity's extinction pathway. I have a friend that is about to pull the trigger for a 58K installation cost, up on the roof-top of his sub-colonial sized suburban home. He's trying to argue that rebate programs will offset the coast... and how that and monthly loan repayment is less than paying for NGRID over the long haul. Okay, buuut... rebate programs (government) come from tax payers ultimately ... It's just redistributing the huckerstism, white-washing the background truth of how the econ mathematics works. He says as long as his monthly bills go down. This is stupid... sorry. It's wrong on both ends. He's not worried about GW in that arithmetic - he wants his monthly power bills to come down. The purveyors of Solar PV and so forth, aren't interested in offsetting GW ... they're seeing a profit wagon. They're not doing it for the right reason in other words. and shows once again why crapitalism is unsustainable and we need price regulations (and not just in this area in many others too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 On 2/24/2024 at 6:01 AM, chubbs said: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 hours ago, LibertyBell said: and shows once again why crapitalism is unsustainable and we need price regulations (and not just in this area in many others too). Kinda of ... ? I don't think capitalism and "price regulatory aspects" need to be mutually exclusive. "Capitalism" isn't the problem. - doing so unconstrained, thinking it is alright ( or just being oblivious, sociopathic ...etc) to be unencumbered by moral responsibility to the consequences of an unrestrained system? That's where the problem is. Capitalism is a human invention - we decide. In a very coarse definition, we could say free and fair economic system that is within the confines of moral responsibility - chiefly, to do otherwise and undermine the ability to survive, violates the fundamental principle of being alive, which is to protect the ability to be alive. What I was saying before is that ... humanity is still not connecting CC with a a threat to that level. Ever hear it said in literature and cinema, "I never quite understood. I knew what it meant, but only now I really get it" - this spiritual awakening to the crisis has not been enlightened yet. The CC storm is coming ... When the NHC statement warns, "...Preparations need to be rushed to completion... " That's where we fail to connect. It may be an untenable at this point. The "system" is gotten to be 'too big to succeed', ironically. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazwoper Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 On 2/24/2024 at 6:01 AM, chubbs said: I installed my 20kw system last summer for $2.50/watt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbs Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, Typhoon Tip said: Kinda of ... ? I don't think capitalism and "price regulatory aspects" need to be mutually exclusive. "Capitalism" isn't the problem. - doing so unconstrained, thinking it is alright ( or just being oblivious, sociopathic ...etc) to be unencumbered by moral responsibility to the consequences of an unrestrained system? That's where the problem is. Capitalism is a human invention - we decide. In a very coarse definition, we could say free and fair economic system that is within the confines of moral responsibility - chiefly, to do otherwise and undermine the ability to survive, violates the fundamental principle of being alive, which is to protect the ability to be alive. What I was saying before is that ... humanity is still not connecting CC with a a threat to that level. Ever hear it said in literature and cinema, "I never quite understood. I knew what it meant, but only now I really get it" - this spiritual awakening to the crisis has not been enlightened yet. The CC storm is coming ... When the NHC statement warns, "...Preparations need to be rushed to completion... " That's where we fail to connect. It may be an untenable at this point. The "system" is gotten to be 'too big to succeed', ironically. Yes, capitalism isn't the problem. The problem is that vested fossil fuel interests don't want capitalism to solve the climate problem and work to keep the deck stacked in their favor. A carbon tax has been a no-brainer for decades as a conservative solution. Also agree that people have a hard time connecting the dots on climate change. One factor, we've never seen climate change before and don't know what it looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 hours ago, Typhoon Tip said: Kinda of ... ? I don't think capitalism and "price regulatory aspects" need to be mutually exclusive. "Capitalism" isn't the problem. - doing so unconstrained, thinking it is alright ( or just being oblivious, sociopathic ...etc) to be unencumbered by moral responsibility to the consequences of an unrestrained system? That's where the problem is. Capitalism is a human invention - we decide. In a very coarse definition, we could say free and fair economic system that is within the confines of moral responsibility - chiefly, to do otherwise and undermine the ability to survive, violates the fundamental principle of being alive, which is to protect the ability to be alive. What I was saying before is that ... humanity is still not connecting CC with a a threat to that level. Ever hear it said in literature and cinema, "I never quite understood. I knew what it meant, but only now I really get it" - this spiritual awakening to the crisis has not been enlightened yet. The CC storm is coming ... When the NHC statement warns, "...Preparations need to be rushed to completion... " That's where we fail to connect. It may be an untenable at this point. The "system" is gotten to be 'too big to succeed', ironically. But who is ultimately at fault with this John, scientists, media, government, lobbyists or all of the above? The problem with capitalism is that we are still letting fossil fuel companies be part of the solution-- we can't allow that to happen. Corporate lobbyists and their dark money need to be removed on every level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 minutes ago, chubbs said: Yes, capitalism isn't the problem. The problem is that vested fossil fuel interests don't want capitalism to solve the climate problem and work to keep the deck stacked in their favor. A carbon tax has been a no-brainer for decades as a conservative solution. Also agree that people have a hard time connecting the dots on climate change. One factor, we've never seen climate change before and don't know what it looks like. It is in a sense, you cant let corporate lobbyists be involved here. This has to be a strictly scientific solution, let the scientists decide and keep the fossil fuel companies out of it. Capitalism in its most corrupt form is oligarchy and thats what happens with corporate dark money corrupting politics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 4 minutes ago, chubbs said: Yes, capitalism isn't the problem. The problem is that vested fossil fuel interests don't want capitalism to solve the climate problem and work to keep the deck stacked in their favor. A carbon tax has been a no-brainer for decades as a conservative solution. Also agree that people have a hard time connecting the dots on climate change. One factor, we've never seen climate change before and don't know what it looks like. this is where government needs to step in and push the fossil fuel companies out the same way we did with tobacco companies. Force them to pay for billion dollar disasters until it gets to the point where they cant function as businesses anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 12 minutes ago, chubbs said: Yes, capitalism isn't the problem. The problem is that vested fossil fuel interests don't want capitalism to solve the climate problem and work to keep the deck stacked in their favor. A carbon tax has been a no-brainer for decades as a conservative solution. Also agree that people have a hard time connecting the dots on climate change. One factor, we've never seen climate change before and don't know what it looks like. I've neen hammering that essay for years. Climate Change does not appeal to the natural senses - literally ... sight, sound, taste, touch .etc. Up until very recently, it's presence all around us has been utterly undetectable to the way our biology was evolved to sample the environment around us. It's that simple. Everything we do as a species - so far - is an integration of that failure, from the individual ... to the group, to the country, to ultimately the whole of humanity. People have to be in f'ing pain to change. Otherwise, it's just a interesting puzzle to explore while in doubt. By the time the specter of CC finally can be explicitly expressed in that way, it may be too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 34 minutes ago, LibertyBell said: But who is ultimately at fault with this John, scientists, media, government, lobbyists or all of the above? The problem with capitalism is that we are still letting fossil fuel companies be part of the solution-- we can't allow that to happen. Corporate lobbyists and their dark money need to be removed on every level. You're affirming my original point. Humans are not connecting CC with an actual existential threat ... When that happens, it will prevent the inclusion of incentives that get in the way of a solution. Related to why the failure to connect ... as I was commenting on Chubb's post - it's a human problem. It drops down to a biological limitation to "take threat seriously" when it is not being directly observed. This isn't as true with individuals.. It gets into a bit of sociological problem - as we integrate the individual into smaller groups, then into large groups and communities, to regions and eventually the population morass of whole countries and the scale of the word, as we go along the way ... there is an "extinction" in the ability to perceive an "intelectualized" warning as a threat. The fear of death being reported through actual sight and sound has a remarkable way of cutting through and clarifying matters. Do this or death - no one thinks otherwise or spends time arguing. Anyway, until the threat is directly understood because its evidence is on the dinner table ... these institutions you listed ...et al, they are all at fault - because it is a human limitation problem. I'm speaking more like a 'governing equation' .. Those institution examples you listed there are the gears turning inside the 'failure to register' machinery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 28 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said: You're affirming my original point. Humans are not connecting CC with an actual existential threat ... When that happens, it will prevent the inclusion of incentives that get in the way of a solution. Related to why the failure to connect ... as I was commenting on Chubb's post - it's a human problem. It drops down to a biological limitation to "take threat seriously" when it is not being directly observed. This isn't as true with individuals.. It gets into a bit of sociological problem - as we integrate the individual into smaller groups, then into large groups and communities, to regions and eventually the population morass of whole countries and the scale of the word, as we go along the way ... there is an "extinction" in the ability to perceive an "intelectualized" warning as a threat. The fear of death being reported through actual sight and sound has a remarkable way of cutting through and clarifying matters. Do this or death - no one thinks otherwise or spends time arguing. Anyway, until the threat is directly understood because its evidence is on the dinner table ... these institutions you listed ...et al, they are all at fault - because it is a human limitation problem. I'm speaking more like a 'governing equation' .. Those institution examples you listed there are the gears turning inside the 'failure to register' machinery And John, why is the US increasing emissions, we are out of time and this should not be done, we have reached new highs in fossil fuel extraction at record levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 45 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said: I've neen hammering that essay for years. Climate Change does not appeal to the natural senses - literally ... sight, sound, taste, touch .etc. Up until very recently, it's presence all around us has been utterly undetectable to the way our biology was evolved to sample the environment around us. It's that simple. Everything we do as a species - so far - is an integration of that failure, from the individual ... to the group, to the country, to ultimately the whole of humanity. People have to be in f'ing pain to change. Otherwise, it's just a interesting puzzle to explore while in doubt. By the time the specter of CC finally can be explicitly expressed in that way, it may be too late. But what about looking at Venus and seeing what happened there and picturing that happening here... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClimateChanger Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 All-time monthly and seasonal record highs being set all over the place in the Midwest yesterday and today - in some cases, by several degrees (and on multiple consecutive days). What a way to cap off what will surely be the warmest winter on record nationally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 14 hours ago, TheClimateChanger said: All-time monthly and seasonal record highs being set all over the place in the Midwest yesterday and today - in some cases, by several degrees (and on multiple consecutive days). What a way to cap off what will surely be the warmest winter on record nationally! lets see if this follows the pattern of 2002.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimB Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 On 2/27/2024 at 1:31 PM, TheClimateChanger said: All-time monthly and seasonal record highs being set all over the place in the Midwest yesterday and today - in some cases, by several degrees (and on multiple consecutive days). What a way to cap off what will surely be the warmest winter on record nationally! Some first order climate sites with long periods of record got almost 10 degrees warmer than any other February day ever. Rockford IL got to 78 after a previous record of 70 and Wausau WI got to 68 after a previous record of 59. Breaking monthly records by almost 10 degrees should be alarming to anyone with a brain. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 18 minutes ago, TimB said: Some first order climate sites with long periods of record got almost 10 degrees warmer than any other February day ever. Rockford IL got to 78 after a previous record of 70 and Wausau WI got to 68 after a previous record of 59. Breaking monthly records by almost 10 degrees should be alarming to anyone with a brain. Nope... only pain will convince in this at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdgwx Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 My hometown St. Louis obliterated the previous record by 7F yesterday.Sent from my Pixel 5a using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimB Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 22 minutes ago, bdgwx said: My hometown St. Louis obliterated the previous record by 7F yesterday. Sent from my Pixel 5a using Tapatalk Daily record. It broke the monthly record by just a degree. The places further north broke monthly records by 5-10 degrees, and in some cases daily records by 12-13 degrees. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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