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Upstate NY/North Country + adjacent ON, QC, VT: Heading into December


Alpha5

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So how'd things end up? 

 

And for the record, I've lived in WNY for 32 years...and am quite familiar with this entire area...including boonville.  I don't think forecasting that the snow 2 and half hours down the road from me was going to melt was that outlandish or ignrorant.  I didnt really crack the case with this one :) ....the models and overall pattern were pretty conducive for extreme melting.

Had it from the daughter (stuck behind the desk myself); pretty consistent 8" of hardened cement on the flats with the big gullies and drainways showing open ground- this is right in the village and immediate area. Anything shoveled or plowed is clear and the banks and piles are down to about 2/3 of where we started. Keep in mind that the air temperature forecasts for here almost always overshoot- at near freezing temps it makes a big difference- and a lot of SW'erly precip breaks up as it climbs the hill from Rome. Automated forecasts are nearly useless for us...

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that's the anomaly...not the actual mid-level low position.

Nick, you guys don't know how to treat a guest.  I've been up here the last two weeks working in downtown Buffalo (staying in Amherst) and this is some boring weather (I was back home stuck in the low - mid 40s during your weekend torch). 

 

I'll be back again the week after next and would appreciate a very cold 250 flow with no cap.  Thanks in advance.

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How's it looking for Lake Effect chances for next week for the CNY area? Sick of looking at green grass and my snowmobile collecting dust in the garage.

 

 

It's looking "very" promising.....Potentially Super significant event...lots of details of course....But just from the consensus progged 500 mb flow and vorticity channel positions, we are setting the table.....

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Nick, you guys don't know how to treat a guest.  I've been up here the last two weeks working in downtown Buffalo (staying in Amherst) and this is some boring weather (I was back home stuck in the low - mid 40s during your weekend torch). 

 

I'll be back again the week after next and would appreciate a very cold 250 850 flow with no cap.  Thanks in advance.

FYP

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Rouge band from the storm effecting SNE has parked it's self over the north country and is snowing on northern dacks/burlington area/northern greens at moderate intensity at the moment. Coming down hard on Whiteface webcam which is something they despratley need, BTV saying dusting-2" for north country and as always locally higher in the favored mountain areas.

 

-skisheep

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COLD ADVECTION WILL BEGIN SUNDAY BEHIND THE DEEPENING LOW...WITH
BELOW NORMAL TEMPERATURES SETTING IN BY SUNDAY NIGHT. SEVERAL WEAK
SYSTEMS WILL THEN CROSS THE GREAT LAKES REGION...BUT MODEL GUIDANCE
HAS BEEN INCONSISTENT WITH TIMING AND TRACK DETAILS. FOR NOW WILL
JUST RUN WITH CHANCE POPS FOR SOME LIGHT SNOW THROUGH THE PERIOD.
THE AIRMASS WILL BE PLENTY COLD ENOUGH FOR LAKE EFFECT SNOW...BUT
WITHOUT THE DETAILS OF THE TRACKS OF THE WEAK ALBERTA CLIPPERS THE
WIND DIRECTIONS...SHEAR AND MOISTURE PROFILES WILL BE UNKNOWN FOR
SEVERAL DAYS TO COME WHICH WILL PREVENT ANY ATTEMPT TO FORECAST LAKE
EFFECT POTENTIAL JUST YET

 

 

This sounds a bit more optimistic than the disco from yesterday.  They said only "nusance accumulations expected" which is quite the statement for a 7 day lead forecast in a relatively favorable longwave pattern.  However, there's nothing as of yet that is having me jump for joy.

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COLD ADVECTION WILL BEGIN SUNDAY BEHIND THE DEEPENING LOW...WITH

BELOW NORMAL TEMPERATURES SETTING IN BY SUNDAY NIGHT. SEVERAL WEAK

SYSTEMS WILL THEN CROSS THE GREAT LAKES REGION...BUT MODEL GUIDANCE

HAS BEEN INCONSISTENT WITH TIMING AND TRACK DETAILS. FOR NOW WILL

JUST RUN WITH CHANCE POPS FOR SOME LIGHT SNOW THROUGH THE PERIOD.

THE AIRMASS WILL BE PLENTY COLD ENOUGH FOR LAKE EFFECT SNOW...BUT

WITHOUT THE DETAILS OF THE TRACKS OF THE WEAK ALBERTA CLIPPERS THE

WIND DIRECTIONS...SHEAR AND MOISTURE PROFILES WILL BE UNKNOWN FOR

SEVERAL DAYS TO COME WHICH WILL PREVENT ANY ATTEMPT TO FORECAST LAKE

EFFECT POTENTIAL JUST YET

 

 

This sounds a bit more optimistic than the disco from yesterday.  They said only "nusance accumulations expected" which is quite the statement for a 7 day lead forecast in a relatively favorable longwave pattern.  However, there's nothing as of yet that is having me jump for joy.

 

Then there is this!! ^_^

 

FOR SATURDAY JANUARY 19 – WEDNESDAY JANUARY 23: AN ALBERTA CLIPPER IS ANTICIPATED TO IMPACT THE CONUS THIS PERIOD, BRINGING LAKE EFFECT SNOW AS WELL AS HIGH WINDS TO PARTS OF THE GREAT LAKES. LOCALIZED AREAS MAY RECEIVE MODERATE TO HEAVY LAKE EFFECT SNOW, POTENTIALLY ENHANCED BY THE CLIPPER. HOWEVER, AREAS WITH THE HEAVIEST SNOW AMOUNTS ARE EXPECTED TO BE ISOLATED PRECLUDING AN AREA FROM BEING IDENTIFIED AT THIS TIME. SOME AREAS MAY EXPERIENCE SUSTAINED WIND SPEEDS OF 30 KNOTS, WITH THE HIGHEST WIND SPEEDS LIKELY OCCURRING OVER THE LAKES. AS THE CLIPPER TRACKS NORTHEASTWARD, PARTS OF THE NORTHEAST COAST MAY EXPERIENCE HIGH WINDS (30 KNOTS OR GREATER) DURING THE WEEKEND. SOME MODELS ARE INDICATING THE POTENTIAL FOR HIGH WIND SPEEDS TO ALSO IMPACT PARTS OF THE MID-ATLANTIC COAST NORTH OF CAPE HATTERAS. HOWEVER, SIGNIFICANT MODEL DIFFERENCES PRECLUDES THE SPECIFICATION OF A HAZARD AREA FOR THIS REGION.

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COLD ADVECTION WILL BEGIN SUNDAY BEHIND THE DEEPENING LOW...WITH

BELOW NORMAL TEMPERATURES SETTING IN BY SUNDAY NIGHT. SEVERAL WEAK

SYSTEMS WILL THEN CROSS THE GREAT LAKES REGION...BUT MODEL GUIDANCE

HAS BEEN INCONSISTENT WITH TIMING AND TRACK DETAILS. FOR NOW WILL

JUST RUN WITH CHANCE POPS FOR SOME LIGHT SNOW THROUGH THE PERIOD.

THE AIRMASS WILL BE PLENTY COLD ENOUGH FOR LAKE EFFECT SNOW...BUT

WITHOUT THE DETAILS OF THE TRACKS OF THE WEAK ALBERTA CLIPPERS THE

WIND DIRECTIONS...SHEAR AND MOISTURE PROFILES WILL BE UNKNOWN FOR

SEVERAL DAYS TO COME WHICH WILL PREVENT ANY ATTEMPT TO FORECAST LAKE

EFFECT POTENTIAL JUST YET

 

 

This sounds a bit more optimistic than the disco from yesterday.  They said only "nusance accumulations expected" which is quite the statement for a 7 day lead forecast in a relatively favorable longwave pattern.  However, there's nothing as of yet that is having me jump for joy.

 

COLD ADVECTION WILL BEGIN SUNDAY BEHIND THE DEEPENING LOW...WITH

BELOW NORMAL TEMPERATURES SETTING IN BY SUNDAY NIGHT. SEVERAL WEAK

SYSTEMS WILL THEN CROSS THE GREAT LAKES REGION...BUT MODEL GUIDANCE

HAS BEEN INCONSISTENT WITH TIMING AND TRACK DETAILS. FOR NOW WILL

JUST RUN WITH CHANCE POPS FOR SOME LIGHT SNOW THROUGH THE PERIOD.

THE AIRMASS WILL BE PLENTY COLD ENOUGH FOR LAKE EFFECT SNOW...BUT

WITHOUT THE DETAILS OF THE TRACKS OF THE WEAK ALBERTA CLIPPERS THE

WIND DIRECTIONS...SHEAR AND MOISTURE PROFILES WILL BE UNKNOWN FOR

SEVERAL DAYS TO COME WHICH WILL PREVENT ANY ATTEMPT TO FORECAST LAKE

EFFECT POTENTIAL JUST YET

 

 

This sounds a bit more optimistic than the disco from yesterday.  They said only "nusance accumulations expected" which is quite the statement for a 7 day lead forecast in a relatively favorable longwave pattern.  However, there's nothing as of yet that is having me jump for joy.

 

Yeah way too early to get really excited, but if (as many models/runs have projected) we do indeed end up with a pattern that puts us in the location near to the axis of  a quasi-stationary, broad based trough at H500 with 850's as  progged (potentially), there will be significant LES snows.  Some of the bigger events in the past have the same exact signals....(12/01-1/02,1/04, 2/07)

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LOL at BGM disco:

 

OVERALL...SO FOR NOW WENT ALONG WITH HPC POPS GENERALLY IN SLIGHT
TO LOW CHANCE RANGE /POPS HIGHEST WITH ARCTIC FRONT MONDAY IN
30-50 PCT RANGE/. WITH 850MB TEMPERATURES PUSHING AROUND MINUS-20
CELSIUS BY TUESDAY...JUST ABOUT ANY PASSING CLOUD WILL AT LEAST
PRODUCE LIGHT SCATTERED FLURRIES WITH ABOUT THE SAME WATER CONTENT
AS STYROFOAM.

 

...

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With the current forecasted temperatures and lake erie hovering around 36/37 degrees we have about 3-4 weeks left before it freezes. I would say the next month of winter will decide how well Kbuf does in terms of snowfall. If we don't get a decent hit in the next 2-3 weeks we will not come anywhere near close to normal in terms of snowfall for the year. We've basically had one LES event all year even including the Southern Tier. We average around 8-12 events per year usually.

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just catching up on the thread

 

we lost all of our snow in st albans to burlington vermont corridor during the thaw. only some snow piles remained.

 

i finally took the drive back to ottawa yesterday for the first time this winter. no snow at the border, and very little S of montreal. as i drove into S burbs and downtown montreal, there was a covering with some open patches. as i headed west to the West  island, coverage and depth increased dramatically. then it got dark between montreal and ottawa lol. but there was a solid snowpack all the way.

 

as i pulled into ottawa, i was shocked at the amount of snow still on the ground despite the recent 4 day thaw. basically 95% + coverage except where snow gets windblown and doesnt pile up well. otherwise looks about a foot of solid glacier on the ground, and driveway piles topping out to 5 feet in spots. i can only imagine how much snow was on the ground before the thaw! my dad tells me that at least 50% of the snow melted, probably closder to 2/3rds!!

 

ill post up some pics tomorrow after a day walk....defintely was not expecting to see a mid winters scene after the snow got blasted away in northern vermont.

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Another day closer....confidence a bit higher for a Sun.-Tues.(at least) major LES event.  The typical fly in the ointment at these leads is dry air....and the latest runs of the GFS and NAM, hint of a decent moisture plume over both Erie and Ontario. 

 

 

What you thinking for a wind direction? I'm kinda partial to a 270° flow. 

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Another day closer....confidence a bit higher for a Sun.-Tues.(at least) major LES event.  The typical fly in the ointment at these leads is dry air....and the latest runs of the GFS and NAM, hint of a decent moisture plume over both Erie and Ontario. 

 

have you taken a look at the surface winds?  There's an arctic front that passes through the induces a ton of shear...and then a low develops to the south inducing northerly surface flow with WNW 850 winds.  It's super windy on Sunday which could preclude organization.

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have you taken a look at the surface winds?  There's an arctic front that passes through the induces a ton of shear...and then a low develops to the south inducing northerly surface flow with WNW 850 winds.  It's super windy on Sunday which could preclude organization.

 

Yeah Buffalo NWS doesn't state anything of significance for the entire week! Looks like its going to be a tundra next week with very little snow. That is seriously the worst in that it freezes up the lake quickly with no opportunity for LES. =/

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Another day closer....confidence a bit higher for a Sun.-Tues.(at least) major LES event.  The typical fly in the ointment at these leads is dry air....and the latest runs of the GFS and NAM, hint of a decent moisture plume over both Erie and Ontario. 

dont see any major LES for the next few days, the flow is all sheared.

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have you taken a look at the surface winds?  There's an arctic front that passes through the induces a ton of shear...and then a low develops to the south inducing northerly surface flow with WNW 850 winds.  It's super windy on Sunday which could preclude organization.

No, not really. the details of what you mention, IMO, (at 4+ day leads) are highly variable.  My "increase" in confidence is more borne in seeing a decent amount of moisture through during the drawn out event.  Many shortwaves will most likely be embedding in the mostly laminar flow, which certainly would "straighten" up the shear many times....but again, those details (shear and moisture) can still vary a decent amount at these lead times. 

 

Also, we have been LES starved for quite some time....so maybe my "enthusiasm" is a bit hypersensitive to that fact. :)

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BTW, Nick, I certainly am not trying to imply that a sheared environment won't exist during some portion of early next week (of course, most likely after the AF) but once the flow settles, I think the delta's and the progged left over moisture will fire the lakes up...

 

Latest from BGM:

 

.LONG TERM /SUNDAY NIGHT THROUGH THURSDAY/...
2 PM THU UPDATE...
SUNDAY NIGHT TO WEDNESDAY VERY COLD AIR WITH A DEEP UPPER LEVEL
TROF OVER THE NORTHEAST U S. DURING THAT TIME A DEEP NW FLOW AND
LAKE EFFECT SNOW WILL BE LIKELY. A SECONDARY COLD FRONT MOVES
SOUTH THROUGH THE CWA MONDAY REINFORCING THE COLD AIR THAT COMES
IN SUNDAY.

 

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BTW, Nick, I certainly am not trying to imply that a sheared environment won't exist during some portion of early next week (of course, most likely after the AF) but once the flow settles, I think the delta's and the progged left over moisture will fire the lakes up...

 

Latest from BGM:

 

.LONG TERM /SUNDAY NIGHT THROUGH THURSDAY/...

2 PM THU UPDATE...

SUNDAY NIGHT TO WEDNESDAY VERY COLD AIR WITH A DEEP UPPER LEVEL

TROF OVER THE NORTHEAST U S. DURING THAT TIME A DEEP NW FLOW AND

LAKE EFFECT SNOW WILL BE LIKELY. A SECONDARY COLD FRONT MOVES

SOUTH THROUGH THE CWA MONDAY REINFORCING THE COLD AIR THAT COMES

IN SUNDAY.

 

 

Ew. Northwest Flow... Who the heck wants that? Pathetic snowfall rates FTL! A nice juicy southwest flow is preferred with 3-4 inches per hour. OH Yea! =)

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Ew. Northwest Flow... Who the heck wants that? Pathetic snowfall rates FTL! A nice juicy southwest flow is preferred with 3-4 inches per hour. OH Yea! =)

Yeah, I need to be more sympathetic to the WNY posters who (I think all) like some southerly component to the wind, where as for us L. Ontario posters, most want 270-320...

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Yeah, I need to be more sympathetic to the WNY posters who (I think all) like some southerly component to the wind, where as for us L. Ontario posters, most want 270-320...

 

I believe the Tug needs a westerly flow and Watertown needs a SW flow. WSW/SW flow works the best here. Sometimes a west flow even hits us.

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