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Upstate NY/North Country + adjacent ON, QC, VT: Meteorological fall is here


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lol

Euro and GFS are pretty big on wind in western and CNY...could be really good, even all the way over here.

That 850 jet cranks overhead as the low retrogrades. Storm force winds and hurricane force gusts per the gfs on Lake Ontario. Euro also has 45-50 kt sustained on the lakes on the wunderground graphics.

What about rain potential? 18z GFS would seem to indicate about 3-6'' here. Is that correct?

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I hope not...that's a lot of rain for these parts. I so wish this was a month later with more cold air...

was thinking that too. Sucks almost none of the models show snow for us anymore. The early runs of the Euro were awesome showing 1-2'+ for us. Itll still be fun to watch from a meteorlogical perspective but man does it suck we wnt be seeing anysnow from this.
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was thinking that too. Sucks almost none of the models show snow for us anymore. The early runs of the Euro were awesome showing 1-2'+ for us. Itll still be fun to watch from a meteorlogical perspective but man does it suck we wnt be seeing anysnow from this.

I will admit having the remenants of a hurricane giving you snow would be sick but it's only the end of october. Plenty of winter to go.

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NWS mentioning 20 foot waves on L Ontario south shore...Can't let that happen and not get up there to check it out. Anyone have suggestions for lakeshore public access in Niagara County? I'm thinking maybe Krull County Park in Olcott or Wilson Tuscorara Park in Wilson.

Yeah it looks like there will be significant waves on the south shore of Lake Ontario. I don't really know the area around the western part of the lake but places like Sodus Bay and Fair Haven Beach will likely flood, especially with a larger fetch of water with a NE-NNE wind.

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Should be glad it's not a west wind along the lake. The waves will still be huge Mon & Tues.

URGENT - MARINE WEATHER MESSAGE

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BUFFALO NY

1004 AM EDT SUN OCT 28 2012

...SMALL CRAFT ADVISORY REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 5 PM EDT MONDAY...

...STORM WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM 5 PM MONDAY TO 8 AM EDT

TUESDAY...

• WINDS...NORTH TO NORTHEAST STORM FORCE WINDS TO 50 KNOTS WITH

A FEW HURRICANE FORCE GUSTS TO 65 KNOTS.

• WAVES...AS HIGH AS 16 TO 22 FEET.

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Nor'Easter next week maybe??

PRELIMINARY EXTENDED FORECAST DISCUSSION
NWS HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL PREDICTION CENTER COLLEGE PARK MD
947 AM EDT THU NOV 01 2012

VALID 12Z MON NOV 05 2012 - 12Z THU NOV 08 2012

...NOR'EASTER POSSIBLE FOR MID-ATLANTIC/NEW ENGLAND STATES BY
ELECTION DAY INTO NEXT THURSDAY...

GENERAL FLOW PATTERN/MODEL PREFERENCE
=====================================
A DEEP CYCLONE DROPPING DOWN THE WEST COAST OF CANADA WILL HELP
AMPLIFY A MID-UPPER LEVEL RIDGE OVER THE WRN US AND MAINTAIN A
NEGATIVELY-TILTED TROUGH FROM THE GREAT LAKES INTO THE
APPALACHIANS. THE GUIDANCE AGREES ON THESE IDEA...AND IN
GENERAL...EVEN MUCH OF THE SMALLER SCALE DETAILS EXPECTED NEXT
WEEK. HPC MEDIUM RANGE SURFACE PRESSURES/FRONTS AND 500 MB PROGS
WERE PRIMARILY DERIVED FROM A BLEND OF THE 00 UTC ECMWF/UKMET AND
GFS/ECMWF ENSEMBLE MEANS THROUGH TUESDAY BEFORE SWITCHING TO A
BLEND OF THE 00 UTC ECMWF WITH 00 UTC GFS/ECMWF ENSEMBLES
THEREAFTER. THIS SOLUTION MAINTAINED REASONABLE CONTINUITY AND
UTILIZED GUIDANCE THAT OFFERED MAX SOLUTION CLUSTERING.

WEATHER IMPACTS
===============
AS A DEEP CYCLONE MOVES DOWN THE WEST COAST OF CANADA...PACIFIC
MOISTURE FEEDS INTO THE NORTHWEST WHICH ALLOWS FOR SKIRMISHES OF
RAINS/HIGH ELEVATION SNOWS THROUGH MUCH OF THE PERIOD. A FEW
BATCHES OF LIGHTER PRECIPITATION ARE MEANWHILE EXPECTED TO STREAK
THROUGH THE MIDWEST NEXT WEEK AS ENERGY DIGS IN BEHIND THE
NEGATIVELY TILTED TROUGH. SHORTWAVES MOVING THROUGH THE SOUTHEAST
SUNDAY INTO TUESDAY ARE EXPECTED TO CAUSE LIGHT TO MODERATE
PRECIPITATION ACROSS THAT REGION OF THE COUNTRY.

GUIDANCE STILL HAVE SOME TIMING/STRENGTH ISSUES BUT COMMONLY AGREE
THAT DEEPER LOW DEVELOPMENT WOULD OCCUR MON-THU AS A FRONTAL WAVE
OFF THE SOUTHEAST MOVES SLOWLY OFFSHORE AND UP OFF THE EAST COAST.
THIS WOULD BRING BEST ORGANIZED RAINS FROM THE ERN MID-ATLANTIC
TO COASTAL NEW ENGLAND. A TRACK IN THIS VEIN OFFERS POTENTIAL FOR
HEAVIER SNOWS ACROSS INTERIOR NEW ENGLAND WEDNESDAY/THURSDAY AS
THE LOW WRAPS INLAND. INCREASING WINDS ALONG COASTAL NEW ENGLAND
(AND POSSIBLY THE COASTAL MID-ATLANTIC STATES IF A MORE WESTERLY
TRACK VERIFIES) TUESDAY ONWARD MAY LEAD TO SOME COASTAL FLOODING
AND BEACH EROSION. IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT THIS SYSTEM IS
EXPECTED TO BE MUCH WEAKER THAN HURRICANE SANDY AND PRODUCE
IMPACTS MUCH LESS EXTREME AND MAINLY AWAY FROM THE REGION MOST
STRONGLY IMPACTED BY SANDY. 

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Nor'Easter next week maybe??

PRELIMINARY EXTENDED FORECAST DISCUSSION
NWS HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL PREDICTION CENTER COLLEGE PARK MD
947 AM EDT THU NOV 01 2012

VALID 12Z MON NOV 05 2012 - 12Z THU NOV 08 2012

...NOR'EASTER POSSIBLE FOR MID-ATLANTIC/NEW ENGLAND STATES BY
ELECTION DAY INTO NEXT THURSDAY...

GENERAL FLOW PATTERN/MODEL PREFERENCE
=====================================
A DEEP CYCLONE DROPPING DOWN THE WEST COAST OF CANADA WILL HELP
AMPLIFY A MID-UPPER LEVEL RIDGE OVER THE WRN US AND MAINTAIN A
NEGATIVELY-TILTED TROUGH FROM THE GREAT LAKES INTO THE
APPALACHIANS. THE GUIDANCE AGREES ON THESE IDEA...AND IN
GENERAL...EVEN MUCH OF THE SMALLER SCALE DETAILS EXPECTED NEXT
WEEK. HPC MEDIUM RANGE SURFACE PRESSURES/FRONTS AND 500 MB PROGS
WERE PRIMARILY DERIVED FROM A BLEND OF THE 00 UTC ECMWF/UKMET AND
GFS/ECMWF ENSEMBLE MEANS THROUGH TUESDAY BEFORE SWITCHING TO A
BLEND OF THE 00 UTC ECMWF WITH 00 UTC GFS/ECMWF ENSEMBLES
THEREAFTER. THIS SOLUTION MAINTAINED REASONABLE CONTINUITY AND
UTILIZED GUIDANCE THAT OFFERED MAX SOLUTION CLUSTERING.

WEATHER IMPACTS
===============
AS A DEEP CYCLONE MOVES DOWN THE WEST COAST OF CANADA...PACIFIC
MOISTURE FEEDS INTO THE NORTHWEST WHICH ALLOWS FOR SKIRMISHES OF
RAINS/HIGH ELEVATION SNOWS THROUGH MUCH OF THE PERIOD. A FEW
BATCHES OF LIGHTER PRECIPITATION ARE MEANWHILE EXPECTED TO STREAK
THROUGH THE MIDWEST NEXT WEEK AS ENERGY DIGS IN BEHIND THE
NEGATIVELY TILTED TROUGH. SHORTWAVES MOVING THROUGH THE SOUTHEAST
SUNDAY INTO TUESDAY ARE EXPECTED TO CAUSE LIGHT TO MODERATE
PRECIPITATION ACROSS THAT REGION OF THE COUNTRY.

GUIDANCE STILL HAVE SOME TIMING/STRENGTH ISSUES BUT COMMONLY AGREE
THAT DEEPER LOW DEVELOPMENT WOULD OCCUR MON-THU AS A FRONTAL WAVE
OFF THE SOUTHEAST MOVES SLOWLY OFFSHORE AND UP OFF THE EAST COAST.
THIS WOULD BRING BEST ORGANIZED RAINS FROM THE ERN MID-ATLANTIC
TO COASTAL NEW ENGLAND. A TRACK IN THIS VEIN OFFERS POTENTIAL FOR
HEAVIER SNOWS ACROSS INTERIOR NEW ENGLAND WEDNESDAY/THURSDAY AS
THE LOW WRAPS INLAND. INCREASING WINDS ALONG COASTAL NEW ENGLAND
(AND POSSIBLY THE COASTAL MID-ATLANTIC STATES IF A MORE WESTERLY
TRACK VERIFIES) TUESDAY ONWARD MAY LEAD TO SOME COASTAL FLOODING
AND BEACH EROSION. IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT THIS SYSTEM IS
EXPECTED TO BE MUCH WEAKER THAN HURRICANE SANDY AND PRODUCE
IMPACTS MUCH LESS EXTREME AND MAINLY AWAY FROM THE REGION MOST
STRONGLY IMPACTED BY SANDY. 

Euro, verbatium would give CNY a 10-14" snowstorm middle of next week......it did nail Sandy this far in advance! Maybe the Upstate noreaster drought is about to end!!

<hotlinked>

f168.gif

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Euro, verbatium would give CNY a 10-14" snowstorm middle of next week......it did nail Sandy this far in advance! Maybe the Upstate noreaster drought is about to end!!

Wont get excited just yet. Though I'm putting the lawn mower away, getting the snow blower out and dusting

the cobwebs off the snowboard & stick. Hey, you never know. wink.png

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Looking at the past snowfall for SYR during warm ENSO periods, there seems to be a slightly average higher seasonal total than the average 50 year snowfall. I used the ONI index for the DJF period, including all values that were between 0 and +0.7 since that seems to be the most likely range for this winter.

post-869-0-53894200-1351803493_thumb.png

The average snowfall for the weak, warm ENSO periods is about half a standard deviation above the 50 year average. Obviously the sample size is a bit small, but this would favor maybe a slightly higher probability for an above average snowfall season this year for CNY. I haven't looked but I would guess that the same trend would show up for BUF and ROC snowfall during warm ENSO periods.

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Looking at the past snowfall for SYR during warm ENSO periods, there seems to be a slightly average higher seasonal total than the average 50 year snowfall. I used the ONI index for the DJF period, including all values that were between 0 and +0.7 since that seems to be the most likely range for this winter.

post-869-0-53894200-1351803493_thumb.png

The average snowfall for the weak, warm ENSO periods is about half a standard deviation above the 50 year average. Obviously the sample size is a bit small, but this would favor maybe a slightly higher probability for an above average snowfall season this year for CNY. I haven't looked but I would guess that the same trend would show up for BUF and ROC snowfall during warm ENSO periods.

Good stuff! Yeah, weak Nino's are "good" for us Upstaters....anything too extreme either way seems to have negative impacts on snowfall....

Looking for about 150" + 15" this year in SYR, from what I can see...

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what you think for BUF? 120" +- 15"

At the airport....probably a bit less...I'm expecting a bit more of a NW'erly mean wind component over the winter (LES to be a bit less to the NE of the lakes, thus Buffalo seeing a bit less LES than normal)...it's something I looked at about 5 years ago over at Eastern..but, I see this also as a clipper type year with a few chances as "inland runners" for Upstate PA/NY, with a bit of an emphasis out our way (W/C NYS)

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At the airport....probably a bit less...I'm expecting a bit more of a NW'erly mean wind component over the winter (LES to be a bit less to the NE of the lakes, thus Buffalo seeing a bit less LES than normal)...it's something I looked at about 5 years ago over at Eastern..but, I see this also as a clipper type year with a few chances as "inland runners" for Upstate PA/NY, with a bit of an emphasis out our way (W/C NYS)

NW's = Jackpot possibilities for me! We'll see.

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