michsnowfreak

I guess youll never understand where im coming from either. Best if we just ignore each other. Oh, and I can read my own stats just fine. Thats 4 storms in TOTAL of over 12"+, that why each category is 12+, 14+, otherwise it would have been worded 12-13.9", 14-15.9", etc. You dont add each category up.

A strong El Nino is a guaranteed mild winter in Michigan, so I can't say that this winter has shocked me, although it's a bit more extreme than I would have expected, especially up North. January was pretty good, the rest of winter terrible. I'll take my chances with la nina any day over el nino. And actually a modoki nina appears to be front loaded with good Decembers here. Would be a nice change of pace. Only a few duds. 1973–1974, 1975–1976, 1983–1984, 1988–1989, 1998–1999, 2000–2001, 2008–2009, 2010–2011, and 2016–2017.

Thanks!!!

0.3" of snow both here and DTW today. Based on the hit and miss nature of the heavier squalls, some areas only had a trace, but isolated areas may have had up to an inch. With today's 0.3" of snow DTW is at 19.8" on the season (17.0" in Jan) and Wyandotte 18.3" on the season (16.0" in Jan). This has to be the worst winter ever where southeast michigan still received 14-24 inches of snow in a single calendar month lol.

I think thats the one. Im putting together a list of the stuff I have for Detroit from 1835 on (to when records started), and what I have for 1857-58 is Mild & open winter, “no snow and atmosphere of spring”, until February. On January 31st violets were in bloom in gardens. Do you have a link for Fort Snelling?

You seem to truly enjoy winter though in all its aspects though, not just one single solitary metric.

When my brother (who now lives in Denver) lived in Chicago (granted he lived in the worst place possible, right on the lake), we almost always had more snow than him. Indeed the Detroit area has a snowfall total advantage over Chicago, but Chicago has the edge with lowest temps. These are things that only a hobbyist would notice though, essentially the climates are very similar. Even still, the general acting like we dont get snowstorms from steve is ridiculous. Most here already know this, but you can have an exciting storm if its not over a foot. Again, the last 20 years have been good to both areas, so the last few mundane winters (tho DTW did pop off 2 6" storms last winter) is not shocking. Storms the last 20 years: ………..DTW….ORD 6”+ --- 37 ---- 27 8”+ --- 18 ---- 12 10”+ -- 9 ----- 9 12”+ -- 2 ----- 4

Nothing wrong with liking a big dog in your own backyard. Just like you get tired of me liking winter (as you call it turd polishing) I get tired or your constant contradictions and changing complaints just to constantly act like detroit is the worst place to be in the winter. In our 2008-15 era of record snowfall we had so many really good storms in the 10-12" range, record snow depths, and you carried on that DTW couldnt eclipse a foot. Then when Detroit got a 17" storm you managed to berate the storm for taking too long, saying you like rates. Since then we have had multiple storms with impressive rates, visibility down to 1/8 mile, TSSN, and you just manage to "not remember" them. Its always something. Detroit has had more 6"+ and 8"+ storms than Chicago, and the exact same amount of 10"+ storms. I know this is a shock, but some people can still enjoy a good storm under a foot. And speaking of a foot, Chicago had 4 storms to Detroits 2 of foot+, not 10-4 as you interpreted. lol 10 storms of a foot+ in 20 years, I guess the midwest is Nova Scotia now.

Was surprised to see snow showers this morning, then downright heavier snow squalls this afternoon. Picked up 0.3". Its been so zzz I hadnt even checked but thought it was supposed to be sunny today. Todays snowfall marks the FIRST precip for me since the January 30th snowfall, a solid 2 weeks. What an about face after a January full of snow & rain. DTW had a T of rain a few days back, but nothing measurable since Jan 30th.

Where do you think the absolute lowest snowfall is so far this season in Minnesota? Do you think it's Twin Cities proper or somewhere else? I was thinking it might be somewhere South and West of the metro but there's really no first order stations.

Sustained? Of course not. But simply getting a late season snow, especially when some of those systems create their own air, don't ever underestimate that in this neck of the woods lol.

Thursday thru Saturday us a period to watch for some possible snow, but the finer details and continuity on the models is just terrible at this lead, so not worth going in depth on anything at this time.

One of the 1850s winters was extremely mild, I think 1857-58?

Actually both 1877-78 and 1977-78 were ninos. Big difference being 1877-78 was strong and 1977-78 was weak. While a weak el nino is not a slam dunk for a cold snowy winter like a strong one is a slam dunk for a mild winter, it is crazy to see the likelihood of a harsher winter based on the strength of the nino (in this area). Meanwhile La Ninas do have a lean towards cold when you average them all out, but the results are all over the board temp-wise in all the strength categories (what is a strong likelihood, fortunately, is a stormy winter).

Huuuge congratulations!!!

Thanks. Yes, a super nino is literally the worst possible bet. 1877-78 was a super nino, so was 1918-19...some of the most god-awful winters in history were. An interesting Ive noticed here is that in these mild, unappealing winters, we actually have a heightened chance of heavy snow rates, TSSN, etc, but the usual parade of snowfalls and cold are missing. The winter of 2022-23 + 2023-24 we have seen MULTIPLE storms bring us blinding snow, with DTW having gone below a quarter mile visibility on I believe 7 different events since Dec 2022, and a few of them got to 1/8 mile. TSSN was widespread locally on March 3, 2023 & Jan 12, 2024. When looking at some historical winters, this has also been the case (one of the warmest winters we have ever seen, 1931-32, saw heavy TSSN on March 22). For those who dont have interest in all things winter, theres definitely been some fun times the last few years. But for the true winter enthusiasts like myself, ill gamble with La Ninas return next year anyday over this winter.

lol and once again you are missing the point or misreading the information. In the last 20 years storms that have dropped 8"+ of snowfall, Detroit has beat Chicago with 18 storms to Chicago's 12 storms. Of these storms, those that exceeded 10" are a tie 9-9. Of these, those that exceeded a foot, Detroit has seen 2 but Chicago 4, and those that exceeded 16", Chicago saw 2 and Detroit 1. I mean you should have not minded these last few winters. Multiple storms with good rates, a few storms with TSSN, limited cold and snowcover.

If I had to guess what's going to happen, whoever gets into that band is going to get some incredible snowfall, but the ratios will be bad. We've had that multiple times the last few years, absolutely blinding snowfall that's gonna make travel treacherous but it will be like 5-1 ratio.

Thanks. And yes I remember 2017 well, clipper heaven. Crazy disparity between Chicago (5.3") and Detroit (22.5") that month.

I think everyone needs to remember also that this is a strong el nino winter. Those are literally THE worst possible outcome for winter lovers in this region. Also, what comes up must come down, and I don't think people realize how spoiled we were as a region for many years just a short time ago. You want to see a bunch of wimpy winters? Take a time machine back to the 1930s-50s. I wanted to look at something I've never really calculated. the average annual peak snow depth per decade at Detroit. It's crazy how relatively steady things have remained for a while when you add up the good and not so good winters of a decade. 1890s- 10 1900s- 12 1910s- 10 1920s- 8 1930s- 7 1940s- 6 1950s- 7 1960s- 7 1970s- 9 1980s- 9 1990s- 9 2000s- 9 2010s- 11 2020s- 9

Since the 15-16 strong nino winter, 5 of the 9 winters have been very mild, 3 near normal (+/- 0.5° or less) and 1 cold here. Mild has dominated, but not consecutively. Prior to the 15-16 nino, 5 of the previous 7 winters were cold, the other 2 being mild. But if we expand it to the prior 13 winters, 8 were cold, 4 mild, 1 avg. So in the last 22 winters, 9 were mild, 4 near avg, and 9 cold. Looking historically, 4 of the 7 winters from 1875-76 to 1881-82 were very mild (but the other 3 were cold). 5 of the 6 winters from 1948-49 thru 1953-54 were mild. On the flip side, the most impressive cold stretches were 14 cold winters in a row 1892-93 to 1904-05 and 17 of the 20 winters from 1966-67 to 1985-86 being cold. As has been discussed many times, snowfall has not suffered at all, merely coming back down-to-earth after our record stretch. A trend since the 15-16 winter has been often getting an excessively snowy month at some point in the winter, but with many periods of thawing/zzzz. Snowcover overall has taken somewhat of a hit, but again in the 13 years prior to 15-16, snowcover was comfortably above the longterm avg, including record breaking consecutive years 13-14 & 14-15.

Record high at DTW today of 64°. This is 20° warmer than the warmest temperature of January. Very breezy all day.

My guess would be other than the last couple nights they'd been blowing plenty of snow with the guns. Mount Brighton in SE MI still has a solid 20 inch base and it's open for all skiing activities.

Detroit is at 19.5" on the season to date. Last winters total was below average at 37.1" but not disaster. So indeed, last 2 winters have been not only mild, but they have lacked the usual amount of snowcover and snowfall. We've had some good storms (including TSSN 3/3/23 & 1/12/24) but the longevity of snowcover and ice on lakes has definitely left much to be desired. If your daughter moved up here after the 2021-22 winter, I would not be impressed either LOL. Funny thing is, Detroit is due for a handful of subpar snowfall seasons to get the average down more in line with the long-term avg, owing to the snowy 2000s & 2010s. But other than a slightly below average snow season last year, we really haven't seen much of that yet. Seems that this season is well on the way to that, but ya never know. If it were up to me, this is not the way I would run a snowfall deficit at all . Id take a couple of cold and dry 20-25" winters where the snow never melts. All of that said no way to sugar coat a strong El nino. Those are guaranteed mild winters in this region. I'm not sure about Columbus's climo is in la nina winters, but Id already place my bets that next winter will be better for the Sub.

I was only referring to the 2nd half of March, not April. But yes there have been some decent April storms for sure!