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It's all conspiracy talk, unless mainstream media / social media embraces it.   Like their slowly doing with UFO's...to make it seem like their all warm and fuzzy. 

Back in the ole days, anybody associated with Witchcraft was also known as a complete wacko...and sent to a ward.   but the younger generation these days seem to embrace it, and it's accepted again.  The stupefying of society from social media / and mainstream media. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, snowsux said:

Are you guys talking about geoengineering seriously, or are you scoffing it off as an insane conspiracy theory?

I can't speak for everyone but there is no way out of the environmental collapse hole. Geo-engineering gives you at best a century or two extra time and it seems that many of the people behind the effort are realizing that it is a grand folly. Tackling the problem requires mass coordination on all fronts from lifestyle choices and reforestation as well as a cessation of all commercial fishing and ocean pollution.

If anything, geoengineering without the above framework makes the problem worse because the damage is hidden and more is accumulated overall. Do I believe it's happening? No. Do I believe that it has been attempted? Yes I do.

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6 hours ago, Vice-Regent said:

I can't speak for everyone but there is no way out of the environmental collapse hole. Geo-engineering gives you at best a century or two extra time and it seems that many of the people behind the effort are realizing that it is a grand folly. Tackling the problem requires mass coordination on all fronts from lifestyle choices and reforestation as well as a cessation of all commercial fishing and ocean pollution.

If anything, geoengineering without the above framework makes the problem worse because the damage is hidden and more is accumulated overall. Do I believe it's happening? No. Do I believe that it has been attempted? Yes I do.

How do you believe it's been attempted? HAARP? SAG (Chemtrails)? I personally try to stay pretty pragmatic about things, but I'll admit that for a while I bought into the whole chemtrail thing. I'm 40, and I most certainly don't remember seeing the sorts of long-lasting / checkerboard style contrails we've got now when I was growing up. It could just be that I wasn't paying attention back then though. I kinda like to take everything with a grain of salt, but I will admit it's pretty freaky to look up and see a sky utterly covered in contrails from end to end, and then watching it all dissipate into a milky white haze on an otherwise cloudless day. Again though, perhaps I just didn't notice it before.

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7 hours ago, snowsux said:

How do you believe it's been attempted? HAARP? SAG (Chemtrails)? I personally try to stay pretty pragmatic about things, but I'll admit that for a while I bought into the whole chemtrail thing. I'm 40, and I most certainly don't remember seeing the sorts of long-lasting / checkerboard style contrails we've got now when I was growing up. It could just be that I wasn't paying attention back then though. I kinda like to take everything with a grain of salt, but I will admit it's pretty freaky to look up and see a sky utterly covered in contrails from end to end, and then watching it all dissipate into a milky white haze on an otherwise cloudless day. Again though, perhaps I just didn't notice it before.

 

check it out, another shill trying to play it off as crazy talk. 

If anything, geoengineering without the above framework makes the problem worse because the damage is hidden and more is accumulated overall. Do I believe it's happening? No. Do I believe that it has been attempted? Yes I do.

It's 100% occurring.

 

 

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21 hours ago, snowsux said:

How do you believe it's been attempted? HAARP? SAG (Chemtrails)? I personally try to stay pretty pragmatic about things, but I'll admit that for a while I bought into the whole chemtrail thing. I'm 40, and I most certainly don't remember seeing the sorts of long-lasting / checkerboard style contrails we've got now when I was growing up. It could just be that I wasn't paying attention back then though. I kinda like to take everything with a grain of salt, but I will admit it's pretty freaky to look up and see a sky utterly covered in contrails from end to end, and then watching it all dissipate into a milky white haze on an otherwise cloudless day. Again though, perhaps I just didn't notice it before.

The US government's involvement with geo-engineering goes all the way back to Project Stormfury (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Stormfury). Nowadays their most prominent effort (debatable) is through ionosphere heating via ground stations (such as HAARP). They used to be more adamant about solar radiation management but have for w/e reason cut down on this effort since 2015. This chem-trail explosion began in earnest in the mid 90s with additives added to aviation fuel which were dispersed by commercial (non-military) and military aircraft. As well, the growth of aviation travel increased chem-trail coverage.

The canary in the geoengineering coal mine is of course the global warming hiatus and increased ocean mixing since 2000-2002 or so. The rate of surface temperature increase over land regions had abruptly slowed down. There are two caveats around the geoengineering problem that make it easy to dismiss.

1.) The slow-down in surface temperature warming came after the largest el nino event of the 20th century. As a result a la nina developed and cooling ensued.

2.) Lower surface temperatures as a result of aerosol emissions are a side-effect rather than a conscious effort to cool the planet. (This seems more likely as aviation fuel is much cleaner and burns more efficiently than it did in the 1990s). 

The official publicly known purpose of HAARP as a military/scientific facility is a missile defense system and/or a space defense system. It is possible as well that in the process of conducting other activities, the facility alters climate unintentionally but the effect seems minimal to date. The true forcing of all greenhouse gases emitted by human sources thus remains blunted by the negative forcing of aerosols. Intentional or not, the end result is the same. However I believe the aerosol forcing is weaker than it was two decades ago, owing to improved air quality in most regions. Especially Europe and the US.

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The excuse from HAARP I found most comical is them saying their no longer using it.    yea ok, spend all this massive amounts of money building it and then saying "oh were not using it anymore....since it costs too much to operate".  ..trying to calm the public down by saying their not using it anymore....ok.    There are numerous similar installations world-wide as well.   So if it's not U.S. based HAARP, it's other countries doing their own 'experiments'.

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Sophisticated Skeptic said:

The excuse from HAARP I found most comical is them saying their no longer using it.    yea ok, spend all this massive amounts of money building it and then saying "oh were not using it anymore....since it costs too much to operate".  ..trying to calm the public down by saying their not using it anymore....ok.    There are numerous similar installations world-wide as well.   So if it's not U.S. based HAARP, it's other countries doing their own 'experiments'.

 

 

 

 

LOL........

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4 minutes ago, hazwoper said:

LOL........

This topic is too rich but really an uncanny confluence of factors creating a illusion of something deeper and a possible lead to geo-engineering.

1.) Slowdown in warming over land regions between 2000-2013

2.) Weather extremes (record heat and record cold in close proximity) - system reaching hysteresis point. Think a long-drawn out Day After Tommorow but after the transition we go full on Eocene.

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3 hours ago, AfewUniversesBelowNormal said:

You can find some pretty cool things if look in the right place. I can spot events that HAARP created if anyone is interested (maybe I'll post later)

Hazwoper will LOL us off as conspiracy theorists, so what's the use.

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On 1/11/2018 at 12:53 PM, Sophisticated Skeptic said:

Hazwoper will LOL us off as conspiracy theorists, so what's the use.

I can understand someone from Tobyhanna having the stance you have on conspiracy theories.  After all, ain't much to do in that god forsaken place.  What is your scientific background again? 

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1 hour ago, hazwoper said:

I can understand someone from Tobyhanna having the stance you have on conspiracy theories.  After all, ain't much to do in that god forsaken place.  What is your scientific background again? 

I could go into a long debate/rant on why rural living is superior. You don't want that to happen. But it's not for the faint of heart - rural living. Cities are where the planet goes into overshoot.

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40 minutes ago, Vice-Regent said:

I could go into a long debate/rant on why rural living is superior. You don't want that to happen. But it's not for the faint of heart - rural living. Cities are where the planet goes into overshoot.

There are 3,000 people in my township, I don't live in a city.

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A big effort was made to cool down the west coast Winter's after WW2, especially the NW. The opposite happens after 2009, west coast ridging is amplified a lot, and I don't think this is from arctic ice. Winters 1997-2000, the eastern 1/2 of North America is anomalous warm. Specific dates in cities like NYC, London, LA, etc. There were many dates I found between 2011-2017, but I deleted them on Facebook. 

The cold spell in the Northeast this December is one example. 

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22 hours ago, hazwoper said:

There are 3,000 people in my township, I don't live in a city.

 

Country living kicks ass. I live in a tiny little town of about 1,000 people. Hate city living. Been there, done that.

 

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Not that my opinion matters much, but I didn't believe in the chemtrail/geo-engineering crap for awhile until recently when a friend of mine presented straight-to-the-face facts that were hard to ignore. I'm not willing to argue whether the current warming is natural or man-made (probably both), but I don't doubt that the government is trying to cool the Earth down, again whether the warming occured was natural or man-made I simply don't want to debate so don't @ me.

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15 hours ago, Newman said:

Not that my opinion matters much, but I didn't believe in the chemtrail/geo-engineering crap for awhile until recently when a friend of mine presented straight-to-the-face facts that were hard to ignore. I'm not willing to argue whether the current warming is natural or man-made (probably both), but I don't doubt that the government is trying to cool the Earth down, again whether the warming occured was natural or man-made I simply don't want to debate so don't @ me.

 I remained pretty skeptical myself until about 9 years ago when the visual evidence became hard to ignore. Although I'd heard people talking about "chemtrails" for years (mostly through people I knew who lived on the west coast), I'd never noticed them here in the Pittsburgh area. Then out of the blue I started noticing them here. After that, about 50% of our "sunny" days here featured a trail-streaked sky which would slowly expand and dissipate into a milky, white haze throughout the afternoon. Sometimes the trails would be so concentrated that they'd cast shadows on one another. I also noticed that there were never any trails in our skies on major holidays. I have noticed a major decrease in them over the past year though, which makes me wonder if whatever program they're a part of is slowly being phased out. It's all just speculation though.

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If there is an ingredient that can be added to jet fuel to create chemtrails, it is pretty special.

Jet fuel is quite tightly specified, to burn uniformly and cleanly, with a specific energy content, so there cannot be much additive because those properties must be maintained.

As an ex chemist, I can't think of a compound that would have such a substantial effect. 

Fortunately it is not necessary to add anything to the fuel to get lots of water vapor in the exhaust, vapor that makes 'chemtrails' that shield the earth from the sun's rays. 

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7 hours ago, snowsux said:

 I remained pretty skeptical myself until about 9 years ago when the visual evidence became hard to ignore. Although I'd heard people talking about "chemtrails" for years (mostly through people I knew who lived on the west coast), I'd never noticed them here in the Pittsburgh area. Then out of the blue I started noticing them here. After that, about 50% of our "sunny" days here featured a trail-streaked sky which would slowly expand and dissipate into a milky, white haze throughout the afternoon. Sometimes the trails would be so concentrated that they'd cast shadows on one another. I also noticed that there were never any trails in our skies on major holidays. I have noticed a major decrease in them over the past year though, which makes me wonder if whatever program they're a part of is slowly being phased out. It's all just speculation though.

That's not hard evidence of anything except that you noticed contrails that have been happening for decades. Y'all, this is not science.

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14 hours ago, WidreMann said:

That's not hard evidence of anything except that you noticed contrails that have been happening for decades. Y'all, this is not science.

 

It never is anymore in these threads its more of a video with a guy explaining his reasoning for his outlandish thoughts. Glad we go off hunches now.

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4 hours ago, so_whats_happening said:

 

It never is anymore in these threads its more of a video with a guy explaining his reasoning for his outlandish thoughts. Glad we go off hunches now.

Intuition is a powerful tool when provided with a dataset of information. However on it's own it's quiet useful. The additives in the fuel was merely a thought experiment rather than something I believe in. However more than likely aerosols are a significant negative forcing but they are not part of any concerted effort to cool the Earth. A recent paper was released detailing the 0.5 C additional warming that would come about if we removed anthropogenic aerosols from the atmosphere.

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