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Central US 2014-15 Winter Preseason Discussion


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Yeah, definitely more cool downs. Did you see Allan Huffman's Winter outlook? He lays everything out pretty much perfectly. 

 

http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/44777-raleighwx-winter-forecast-2014-15/

 

With all due respect to Allan, someone who I admire very much, I also think he has the coldest region to far east.  Here its what his analog years would look like

 

 

cd71.49.93.22.302.21.56.43.prcp.png

 

I have 1958/59 on my analog years and two from his second tier matches 76/77 and 79/80/. 

 

In all due respect I think 02/03 and 09/10 are both two strong of El Nino years, although they may be a better AMO match than 76/77 and 79/80 I think the later two are much better Nino matches.  58/59 looks like a excellent match for the AMO as well as the Nino.  79/80 IMO is a suburb match to this years Nino as were were coming off a cool neutral year of 78/79, which is very similar to last year.

Therefore because 58/59 is a better AMO year, I am weighting that twice to account for that.  This is what I get.

 

cd71.49.93.22.302.22.3.16.prcp.png

 

I like the second map better than the first, although I would extend the coldest anomalies southwestward by about a state, and bring the warmer anomalies over the spine of the Rockies from say far western ND/SD, and follow the spine down into NM/AZ. I like the PACNW almost perfectly with Central and Southern CA being warmer than what that map shows.  The reason that I would make these changes is that I believe the STJ will be weaker than most believe it will.  Remember last year was cool neutral and Nino is going to be on the weak side, I believe it will take a bit longer for the atmosphere to respond. I am still wavering on where the highest snowfall anomalies will set up. My current thinking about snow fall will follow.

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For my analog years, this is what I get for precip anomalies.

 

cd71.49.93.22.302.22.51.35.prcp.png

 

This is where I'm torn.  Is the lower than average precip in the middle of the country due to the colder air not holding as much moisture?  And if so could that mean higher than normal snowfall?  With normal precip over the Upper Mississippi could that be a indication of a couple CO lows forming dumping some heavier snows across the MN area?   All thoughts would be welcome!

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I think you're pretty much spot on in your assessment of precip. Here are some snow totals from Fayetteville, AR for the years listed:

1958-59: 15.0 (Driest winter ever 2.84 in)

1976-77: 22.0 (7th driest 4.41)

1979-80: 8.0 (4th driest 3.82)

Just for comparison, 2013-14 went as our 20th driest such period for this area and finished with 17.9 inches of snow. I'm sure there are similar results for 2009-10 which had near 20 inches but is not listed in Fayetteville's ranked snowfall for some unknown reason. (It is in the top 10 for Tulsa if I'm not mistaken) Good work. I hope you're correct!

EDIT/ADD: For his other analog of 2002-03 it was at 15.9 inches of snow. A lot of top winters for me in that list minus 1979-80 at 8.0 which is 1 inch short of climo from 1949-2014.

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Millwx has a pretty similar map out in the Mid-Atlantic winter thread. I think it's a little noisy given all of the years used but the general idea is the same. The dry/snowy anomaly is still there pretty sharply on the precip map.

http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/42356-winter-2014-2015-thread/page-50

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The 12z Euro HRES run has anomalous cold temps building in Canada. Temps in southern Canada might be -20 to -30 below normal by the evening of Sunday Nov 9th.

 

Latest Euro ensembles are becoming increasingly colder as we head into November as they start building the ridge farther north into Alaska.  

 

And just for fun, the 12z Euro control run even has a fantasy snowstorm (6+ inches) on Nov 13th from northern Texas across the NW 1/2 of Arkansas, S MO and points NE.

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The 12z Euro HRES run has anomalous cold temps building in Canada. Temps in southern Canada might be -20 to -30 below normal by the evening of Sunday Nov 9th.

Latest Euro ensembles are becoming increasingly colder as we head into November as they start building the ridge farther north into Alaska.

And just for fun, the 12z Euro control run even has a fantasy snowstorm (6+ inches) on Nov 13th from northern Texas across the NW 1/2 of Arkansas, S MO and points NE.

Thanks you! Looking better every day. Hey, had a question for you. Do you remember some of the free sites you listed for me last year for precip and precip types. I seem to have lost the list I made and I no longer have the bookmarks saved either for some reason. Thanks in advance!

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Thanks you! Looking better every day. Hey, had a question for you. Do you remember some of the free sites you listed for me last year for precip and precip types. I seem to have lost the list I made and I no longer have the bookmarks saved either for some reason. Thanks in advance!

 

I don't remember that. You'll probably have to dig through the old thread to find it. It wasn't the Earl Barker site was it? http://www.wxcaster.com/models_main.htm

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I don't remember that. You'll probably have to dig through the old thread to find it. It wasn't the Earl Barker site was it? http://www.wxcaster.com/models_main.htm

No, it was different. I'm pretty familiar with the Earl Barker model site. It looked kinda similar to some of the WxBell maps I see you post but not as detailed. It's alright though. Thanks and sorry for cluttering things up everyone.

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No, it was different. I'm pretty familiar with the Earl Barker model site. It looked kinda similar to some of the WxBell maps I see you post but not as detailed. It's alright though. Thanks and sorry for cluttering things up everyone.

You might be looking for Tropical Tidbits (the graphics resemble Wxbell.com) - look for the GFS and NAM. Also I might recommend http://coolwx.com/ptype

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Yes, indeed, the ridge has hooked over the top on the Euro/Euro ensembles, and it's now very cold east of the Rockies. The ensembles themselves have the greatest anomalies over the heartland with temps -4 to -7 C, colder than normal. That's a pretty high likelihood that it's going to be cold.

 

The control run is of course even more extreme, with some -21 C below normal temps showing up.... due to deep snowcover from a storm system it has impacting OK/AR/MO on Nov 13th.

 

 

The AO as we head into Dec keeps dropping on the CFS.

ao1102.png

 

 

And it decided it wants to not torch December anymore:

 

coldcfsdec.png

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Yes, indeed, the ridge has hooked over the top on the Euro/Euro ensembles, and it's now very cold east of the Rockies. The ensembles themselves have the greatest anomalies over the heartland with temps -4 to -7 C, colder than normal. That's a pretty high likelihood that it's going to be cold.

The control run is of course even more extreme, with some -21 C below normal temps showing up.... due to deep snowcover from a storm system it has impacting OK/AR/MO on Nov 13th.

The AO as we head into Dec keeps dropping on the CFS.

ao1102.png

And it decided it wants to not torch December anymore:

coldcfsdec.png

So is this looking realistic or just crazy at this point?

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So is this looking realistic or just crazy at this point?

 

Well it is the CFS so chances are it'll be back to being warm next run. It's probably overdone either way. The -AO looks attainable however.

 

The 12z Euro ensembles still look good for cold weather. Individual storm systems can't be picked out very easily though because that will change each run but the general look is very good for a ridge in the west, blocking over the top and a trough in the central/east. 

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Any update on the Nov 13th fantasy storm?

 

It's gone on the control run of the 12z Euro, but it *might* be what is shown on the 240 hour panel of the operational 12z Euro. This site has pretty maps you can get for free. If you check out the ECMWF 240 hour US 500 MB Height Anomaly map you can see the low sitting over you. There's a weak surface reflection in W TN it looks like if you look at the MSLP/850 MB map. http://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/

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In the weeklies today....

 

The general look of ridging in the west and over the top persists until Nov 21st or so. That results in a trough in the central and eastern US. After that it shifts to more of the west coast/southwest and eventually up into Alaska. However, there is also troughing across the southern US indicating possible storm systems. Ridging in Canada near the Hudson bay. It generally looks cold (might be brief warm ups ahead of cool downs at times), possibly moderating a bit towards the end of the month but nothing way above normal for an extended period of time or anything. 

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In the weeklies today....

The general look of ridging in the west and over the top persists until Nov 21st or so. That results in a trough in the central and eastern US. After that it shifts to more of the west coast/southwest and eventually up into Alaska. However, there is also troughing across the southern US indicating possible storm systems. Ridging in Canada near the Hudson bay. It generally looks cold (might be brief warm ups ahead of cool downs at times), possibly moderating a bit towards the end of the month but nothing way above normal for an extended period of time or anything.

Split flow after the 21st maybe?

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Just wanted to pop in and say "hello". Sounds like we could all be in for a wild fun winter eh? :) Took me a bit to find this new thread!

Welcome back. Yeah. Looks like it could definitely be a good one once things get rolling along. I'm more excited for this winter than I've probably been for a winter in a very very long time.

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Welcome back. Yeah. Looks like it could definitely be a good one once things get rolling along. I'm more excited for this winter than I've probably been for a winter in a very very long time.

Thnx man! I definitely hope the warmth decides to go away for good soon though cause I'm tired of cutting grass allready haha!!

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Thnx man! I definitely hope the warmth decides to go away for good soon though cause I'm tired of cutting grass allready haha!!

Yeah. I hear ya there. Definitely a good grass year I guess. My yard has some nice brown spots in it now from the deep freeze we had the other night but it looks rough now so I'll have to cut it again. November was looking great a few days ago but I'm not so sure now. Getting ready to buy a WxBell subscription because I can't stand not being able to look and see what's going on.

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I Ann getting pretty excited for what is in store for us in Texas. Areas like Missouri look to be in between the big anomalous temperature departure areas this winter and north of the main storm track.

Yeah. Should be exciting for you. I have a brother who lives in east TX and I'm pretty sure he's going to get a real winter this year.

I think Missouri can get in on the fun this winter. Statistically they have pretty nice winters up there during weak Niños.

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Yeah. Should be exciting for you. I have a brother who lives in east TX and I'm pretty sure he's going to get a real winter this year.

I think Missouri can get in on the fun this winter. Statistically they have pretty nice winters up there during weak Niños.

 

It is going to be nice to finally have a winter with cold at all levels of the atmosphere along with plenty of moisture. Maybe we can get an early treat from the Nuri induced mid-Nov Arctic outbreak.

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