Burlington Vts temperature record because PF asked

[CoastalWx]

Kevin, a Tarmac that is 40 yds wide isn't going to lower dewpoints by 5 degrees. That logic makes no sense.

[Damage In Tolland]

Meh. Large scale concrete infrastructure is one thing...a few paved tarmacs and runways is another. A driveway probably functions closer to a black body than most grassy surfaces anyways. CON radiates like crazy still. I don't come close to their mins on an ideal radiating night.

ThInk about it. That tweet I posted the other day with the picture of the plane taking off at BDL and all the heat coming up from the runway and a runway temp they posted of 135. You can't possibly say that isn't affecting that localized area which includes the Asos. Heat rises.

[CT Rain]

Meh. Large scale concrete infrastructure is one thing...a few paved tarmacs and runways is another. A driveway probably functions closer to a black body than most grassy surfaces anyways. CON radiates like crazy still. I don't come close to their mins on an ideal radiating night.

 

Yeah - exactly. When I fly out of BDL I always chuckle at how "rural" the airport is with forest north, south, and west. Then we read on here that it's the equivalent of EWR and of course it runs warm.

 

If we want to put all ASOSs in neighborhoods near trees and houses that's pretty silly but we'd also have to recalibrate what we consider "humid" - a 60 to 65 dew point would be quite comfortable and a 70F dew point, while muggy, wouldn't be unbearable.

[CT Rain]

ThInk about it. That tweet I posted the other day with the picture of the plane taking off at BDL and all the heat coming up from the runway and a runway temp they posted of 135. You can't possibly say that isn't affecting that localized area which includes the Asos. Heat rises.

 

[Damage In Tolland]

Kevin, a Tarmac that is 40 yds wide isn't going to lower dewpoints by 5 degrees. That logic makes no sense.

Im talking temps. It explains partially why airports roast.

[powderfreak]

I could speculate 2 reasons for it. One is a developing UHI that has taken place WITHIN the past 30 years. That is not present at other sites in VT, and has already been present for much longer at other climate sites, so its been reflected in the normals.

 

The second is related to global warming, whether man-made or natural. In theory, and observation, it affects the low temperatures first and foremost, with whatever it is, clouds, can't radiate efficiently, etc... So this would show up more at a place that already had trouble radiating, eg: BTV (marginal radiating nights would not radiate while others still would). Water temperatures have warmed as well, and this has been noted at Lake Champlain, where it takes an act of God to get it to freeze:

 

http://www.weather.gov/btv/lakeclose

 

This was the first time in 7 years, and if you look back, the frequency of closing has definitely gone WAY down. So the warmer lake waters would keep BTV warmer.

 

 

You could add wind to it too, although I don't have any data right now to say the winds have gone up or down. But certainly an uptick in southerly winds would keep us warmer. We roast on south winds with some extreme cases where we don't fall at all or even rise overnight.

 

That's interesting and I hadn't thought about that...how that is already worked into most other major city climo sites in the East where as BTV is seeing urban development more recently.  I just don't know on what scale that would affect it...I would almost think UHI would affect more on sunny days than affecting nights out there.  I grew up near ALB, and BTV is no worse than near there, but maybe that has already been worked into ALB's normals. 

 

I guess then if BTV was actually in a field in Addison County, would we still see the increase?  I think we would...it does seem very representative of the Champlain Valley, even if you just follow the meso-network.  Which then leads to global warming effects or some sort of increase in southerly flow (which sort of goes along with warming).  Its just BTV's local topography would cause temps to rise quicker than elsewhere if you can agree that warming and southerly winds sort of go hand-in-hand.

[Ginx snewx]

I could speculate 2 reasons for it. One is a developing UHI that has taken place WITHIN the past 30 years. That is not present at other sites in VT, and has already been present for much longer at other climate sites, so its been reflected in the normals.

 

The second is related to global warming, whether man-made or natural. In theory, and observation, it affects the low temperatures first and foremost, with whatever it is, clouds, can't radiate efficiently, etc... So this would show up more at a place that already had trouble radiating, eg: BTV (marginal radiating nights would not radiate while others still would). Water temperatures have warmed as well, and this has been noted at Lake Champlain, where it takes an act of God to get it to freeze:

 

http://www.weather.gov/btv/lakeclose

 

This was the first time in 7 years, and if you look back, the frequency of closing has definitely gone WAY down. So the warmer lake waters would keep BTV warmer.

 

 

You could add wind to it too, although I don't have any data right now to say the winds have gone up or down. But certainly an uptick in southerly winds would keep us warmer. We roast on south winds with some extreme cases where we don't fall at all or even rise overnight.

interesting, not going to post them here but the charts for the other major cities in the NE are not similar at all to BTV, little difference really statistically insignificant. One thing I have noticed that is a huge disparity as far as BTV goes is their growing season is much much longer than in the past, good for the bud growers around the airport I guess, lol

        last freeze              first freeze           growing season
1963	05-24 (1963)	0	09-14 (1963)	0	112
1964	05-21 (1964)	0	09-13 (1964)	0	114
1992	05-25 (1992)	0	09-24 (1992)	0	121
1961	05-31 (1961)	0	09-30 (1961)	0	121
1941	05-13 (1941)	0	09-13 (1941)	0	122
1969	05-27 (1969)	0	09-30 (1969)	0	125
1965	05-24 (1965)	0	09-27 (1965)	0	125
1974	05-20 (1974)	0	09-24 (1974)	0	126
1993	05-14 (1993)	0	09-20 (1993)	0	128
1973	05-15 (1973)	0	09-21 (1973)	0	128
1987	05-19 (1987)	0	09-27 (1987)	0	130
1962	05-12 (1962)	0	09-21 (1962)	0	131
1946	05-04 (1946)	0	09-13 (1946)	0	131
1959	05-09 (1959)	0	09-19 (1959)	0	132
1947	05-15 (1947)	0	09-25 (1947)	0	132
1945	05-20 (1945)	0	09-30 (1945)	0	132
1956	05-25 (1956)	0	10-06 (1956)	0	133
1950	05-14 (1950)	0	09-25 (1950)	0	133
1981	05-19 (1981)	0	10-01 (1981)	0	134
1944	05-20 (1944)	0	10-02 (1944)	0	134
1979	05-07 (1979)	0	09-20 (1979)	0	135
1967	05-23 (1967)	0	10-07 (1967)	0	136
1951	05-14 (1951)	0	09-30 (1951)	0	138
1972	05-11 (1972)	0	09-28 (1972)	0	139
1984	05-17 (1984)	0	10-05 (1984)	0	140
1942	05-11 (1942)	0	09-29 (1942)	0	140
1971	05-24 (1971)	0	10-13 (1971)	0	141
1949	05-11 (1949)	0	10-02 (1949)	0	143
1995	05-07 (1995)	0	09-29 (1995)	0	144
1983	05-18 (1983)	0	10-10 (1983)	0	144
1943	05-14 (1943)	3	10-06 (1943)	0	144
1999	05-13 (1999)	0	10-06 (1999)	0	145
2002	05-20 (2002)	0	10-14 (2002)	0	146
1978	05-01 (1978)	0	09-26 (1978)	0	147
1957	05-17 (1957)	0	10-12 (1957)	0	147
1955	04-28 (1955)	0	09-23 (1955)	0	147
1958	05-10 (1958)	0	10-06 (1958)	0	148
2010	05-13 (2010)	0	10-10 (2010)	0	149
2000	05-01 (2000)	0	09-28 (2000)	0	149
1996	05-07 (1996)	0	10-04 (1996)	0	149
2004	05-08 (2004)	0	10-06 (2004)	0	150
1968	05-08 (1968)	0	10-06 (1968)	0	150
1966	05-14 (1966)	0	10-12 (1966)	0	150
1977	05-08 (1977)	0	10-07 (1977)	0	151
1982	05-11 (1982)	0	10-11 (1982)	0	152
1948	05-03 (1948)	0	10-03 (1948)	0	152
1954	05-06 (1954)	0	10-07 (1954)	0	153
2001	05-06 (2001)	0	10-08 (2001)	0	154
2003	05-04 (2003)	0	10-07 (2003)	0	155
1988	04-26 (1988)	0	09-29 (1988)	0	155
1985	05-09 (1985)	0	10-12 (1985)	0	155
1960	04-29 (1960)	0	10-02 (1960)	0	155
1953	04-20 (1953)	0	09-24 (1953)	0	156
1952	05-05 (1952)	0	10-10 (1952)	0	157
2008	05-01 (2008)	0	10-07 (2008)	0	158
1986	05-04 (1986)	0	10-10 (1986)	0	158
1980	04-22 (1980)	0	09-28 (1980)	0	158
1975	04-29 (1975)	0	10-05 (1975)	0	158
1998	04-27 (1998)	0	10-04 (1998)	0	159
1997	05-05 (1997)	0	10-12 (1997)	0	159
2007	05-05 (2007)	0	10-13 (2007)	0	160
2005	05-13 (2005)	0	10-21 (2005)	0	160
1994	05-03 (1994)	0	10-11 (1994)	0	160
1990	05-12 (1990)	0	10-20 (1990)	0	160
2013	05-15 (2013)	0	10-24 (2013)	0	161
1991	04-19 (1991)	0	09-30 (1991)	0	163
1989	04-29 (1989)	0	10-10 (1989)	0	163
1970	05-08 (1970)	0	10-19 (1970)	0	163
2012	04-30 (2012)	0	10-13 (2012)	0	165
2011	04-22 (2011)	0	10-06 (2011)	0	166
1976	04-24 (1976)	0	10-11 (1976)	0	169
2009	04-24 (2009)	0	10-12 (2009)	0	170
2006	04-30 (2006)	0	10-21 (2006)	0	173

[snowman21]

but with less foliage you see lower dews like at a Tarmac. we keep coming back to why are Asos located in the middle of tar macs, instead of foliated areas where folks live,, like your BY for example. Your data is far more accurate and verifiable than an airfield surrounded by concrete.I think an overall increase in dews in the northeast over the last 10-20 years is a big contributer

I'm guessing because it's just a little bit more important to measure the atmosphere right at the point where planes carrying thousands of passengers every day need to take off and land? I'm not saying your back yard isn't important, it's just planes don't land there.

[powderfreak]

Yeah I'm referring to the mins there and I bet the winds have something to do with it. Plus tack on the other features you mentioned.

 

Maybe a slight uptick in southerly flow (which could be related to generally warmer than normal airmasses moving in over the past 5-10 years) plus the normal warm valley and UHI effects.  I like that answer, haha. 

 

Whats interesting about the wind climo is that if most other spots in New England have a warm month of say +1 to +2 (which we've seen plenty over the past 10 years), that increase in south wind advecting those warmer than normal temperatures into the area or sustaining the warmth would cause BTV to go +3 or +4 because of the topography.  If the prevailing wind is North, BTV stays much closer to all the other climo spots in New England.

[CT Rain]

I'm guessing because it's just a little bit more important to measure the atmosphere right at the point where planes carrying thousands of passengers every day need to take off and land? I'm not saying your back yard isn't important, it's just planes don't land there.

 

There are also hundreds of thousands of people in Connecticut who live in urban areas. While Tolland may be quite bucolic... there are 100k+ in Hartford, New Haven, Bridgeport, Waterbury, and Stamford each. 

[CoastalWx]

Maybe a slight uptick in southerly flow (which could be related to generally warmer than normal airmasses moving in over the past 5-10 years) plus the normal warm valley and UHI effects. I like that answer, haha.

Whats interesting about the wind climo is that if most other spots in New England have a warm month of say +1 to +2 (which we've seen plenty over the past 10 years), that increase in south wind advecting those warmer than normal temperatures into the area or sustaining the warmth would cause BTV to go +3 or +4 because of the topography. If the prevailing wind is North, BTV stays much closer to all the other climo spots in New England.

Well it could be that BTV is in an area where srly flow facilitates the warmth, so a regime with srly flow and associated higher dews will bring out the best in BTV torches. Then you throw in and UHI and perhaps lake temps a bit above normal, and it all adds up.

[Damage In Tolland]

I'm guessing because it's just a little bit more important to measure the atmosphere right at the point where planes carrying thousands of passengers every day need to take off and land? I'm not saying your back yard isn't important, it's just planes don't land there.

But why is an airport any more accurate than a backyard in Anytown, USA?

[Ginx snewx]

Well it could be that BTV is in an area where srly flow facilitates the warmth, so a regime with srly flow and associated higher dews will bring out the best in BTV torches. Then you throw in and UHI and perhaps lake temps a bit above normal, and it all adds up.

seems logical that no 1 factor is dominant, good stuff guys. I am ok with asos siting as long as the siting is consistent, when buildings affecting airflow are built near the ASOS it should be noted, tarmac air flow removing UHI is extremely important to accuracy.

[powderfreak]

 

interesting, not going to post them here but the charts for the other major cities in the NE are not similar at all to BTV, little difference really statistically insignificant. One thing I have noticed that is a huge disparity as far as BTV goes is their growing season is much much longer than in the past, good for the bud growers around the airport I guess, lol

 

 

Has growing season changed elsewhere in New England?  Snowman21 may be able to pull some stats about that.

 

To be honest though, this map of temperature departures since the turn of the century doesn't show this to be a BTV-specific issue, lol.

 

[Ginx snewx]

But why is an airport any more accurate than a backyard in Anytown, USA?

technological superior equipment? proper siting? not saying backyard equipment is inaccurate but they are much more prone to error and micorenvironmental affects, such as lawn watering, new shade growth on trees etc.

[powderfreak]

But why is an airport any more accurate than a backyard in Anytown, USA?

 

It may not be that its more accurate...its necessary.  Planes carry a lot of people.  Its a safety thing and that's how it started.  We just have all grown up being accustomed to monitoring observations at ASOS and airports.  We know that if pattern X is as such, this is what we should see at the ASOS.  Everyone here has this little database in their head of what a given reading at an airport translates to "feeling" like in their backyard. 

 

All these years the dews were likely higher in our backyard, but we've been used to watching ASOS and taking that as the official record.  Its fun to know what it is in your backyard, but in the weather industry, people relate to the ASOS stations...it just is how it is. And its relatively consistent.  If we just moved all the ASOS into neighborhood backyards, its negates years and years of records and all that.  You're trying to compare apples to oranges with that stuff which is why most on here really don't care what the backyard dews are.

[CT Rain]

technological superior equipment? proper siting? not saying backyard equipment is inaccurate but they are much more prone to error and micorenvironmental affects, such as lawn watering, new shade growth on trees etc.

 

More importantly an open area allows the wind to blow and keep the near-ground environment well mixed. You're able to effectively eliminate the impact of a runway when you have a nice breeze and the atmosphere is well mixed - as long as your thermometer is 100+feet away from said tarmac and 2m above the ground. 

 

Looking forward to the next tropical storm or hurricane to hit New England with Kevin's new ASOS in subdivisions plan. Maybe someone can score a 20 knot gust!

[Ginx snewx]

Has growing season changed elsewhere in New England?  Snowman21 may be able to pull some stats about that.

 

To be honest though, this map of temperature departures since the turn of the century doesn't show this to be a BTV-specific issue, lol.

 

temperature.png

the rest of sNE has scattered growing season changes for example ORH while BTVs is very obvious 

1950	05-08 (1950)	0	09-25 (1950)	0	139
1976	05-19 (1976)	0	10-11 (1976)	0	144
1981	05-07 (1981)	0	09-30 (1981)	0	145
1992	05-06 (1992)	0	09-30 (1992)	0	146
1957	05-03 (1957)	0	09-27 (1957)	0	146
1974	05-08 (1974)	0	10-04 (1974)	0	148
1958	05-10 (1958)	0	10-06 (1958)	0	148
1986	05-04 (1986)	0	10-07 (1986)	0	155
1956	05-08 (1956)	0	10-11 (1956)	0	155
1978	05-04 (1978)	0	10-08 (1978)	0	156
1975	04-29 (1975)	0	10-03 (1975)	0	156
1996	04-28 (1996)	1	10-04 (1996)	0	158
1964	05-02 (1964)	0	10-08 (1964)	0	158
1965	04-25 (1965)	0	10-04 (1965)	0	161
1999	04-24 (1999)	0	10-04 (1999)	0	162
1987	04-29 (1987)	0	10-09 (1987)	0	162
1970	05-07 (1970)	0	10-17 (1970)	0	162
1991	04-19 (1991)	0	09-30 (1991)	0	163
2010	05-11 (2010)	0	10-23 (2010)	0	164
1993	04-28 (1993)	0	10-10 (1993)	0	164
1972	04-28 (1972)	0	10-10 (1972)	0	164
2012	04-28 (2012)	0	10-12 (2012)	0	166
2000	04-26 (2000)	0	10-10 (2000)	0	166
1984	04-22 (1984)	0	10-06 (1984)	0	166
1989	04-25 (1989)	0	10-10 (1989)	0	167
1961	04-20 (1961)	0	10-05 (1961)	0	167
1988	04-22 (1988)	0	10-09 (1988)	0	169
1994	04-23 (1994)	0	10-11 (1994)	0	170
1980	04-22 (1980)	0	10-10 (1980)	0	170
1966	05-11 (1966)	0	10-29 (1966)	0	170
1963	05-12 (1963)	0	10-30 (1963)	0	170
2001	04-19 (2001)	0	10-08 (2001)	0	171
1979	04-20 (1979)	0	10-10 (1979)	0	172
1951	04-21 (1951)	0	10-13 (1951)	0	174
2002	04-29 (2002)	0	10-22 (2002)	0	175
2003	04-25 (2003)	0	10-19 (2003)	0	176
1982	04-23 (1982)	0	10-18 (1982)	0	177
2006	04-26 (2006)	0	10-22 (2006)	0	178
1959	04-22 (1959)	0	10-18 (1959)	0	178
1954	04-10 (1954)	0	10-07 (1954)	0	179
1962	04-24 (1962)	0	10-24 (1962)	0	182
1969	04-21 (1969)	0	10-22 (1969)	0	183
1960	04-20 (1960)	0	10-21 (1960)	0	183
2009	04-13 (2009)	0	10-15 (2009)	0	184
1983	04-19 (1983)	0	10-21 (1983)	0	184
1949	04-25 (1949)	0	10-27 (1949)	0	184
1967	04-26 (1967)	0	10-29 (1967)	0	185
1977	05-09 (1977)	0	11-12 (1977)	0	186
2013	04-21 (2013)	0	10-26 (2013)	0	187
1955	04-17 (1955)	1	10-22 (1955)	0	187
2011	04-22 (2011)	0	10-28 (2011)	0	188
1997	04-15 (1997)	0	10-22 (1997)	0	189
1990	04-19 (1990)	0	10-26 (1990)	0	189
1971	04-28 (1971)	0	11-05 (1971)	0	190
1952	04-12 (1952)	0	10-20 (1952)	0	190
2008	04-14 (2008)	0	10-23 (2008)	0	191
1985	04-18 (1985)	0	10-29 (1985)	0	193
1995	04-17 (1995)	1	10-30 (1995)	2	195
2005	04-15 (2005)	0	10-29 (2005)	0	196
1973	04-14 (1973)	0	10-28 (1973)	0	196
1953	04-21 (1953)	0	11-04 (1953)	0	196
2007	04-13 (2007)	0	10-29 (2007)	0	198
1998	04-12 (1998)	0	11-03 (1998)	0	204
1968	04-07 (1968)	0	10-30 (1968)	0	205
2004	04-10 (2004)	0	11-04 (2004)	0	

[Ginx snewx]

More importantly an open area allows the wind to blow and keep the near-ground environment well mixed. You're able to effectively eliminate the impact of a runway when you have a nice breeze and the atmosphere is well mixed - as long as your thermometer is 100+feet away from said tarmac and 2m above the ground. 

 

Looking forward to the next tropical storm or hurricane to hit New England with Kevin's new ASOS in subdivisions plan. Maybe someone can score a 20 knot gust!

I love our siting here at work at 35 feet on a roof with perfect exposures, hit a 54 this winter

[snowman21]

But why is an airport any more accurate than a backyard in Anytown, USA?

The main reason is because it is sited properly. Almost all home weather stations are not. Weather is still a science, and measuring the atmosphere needs to be treated much like a controlled experiment done using the same equipment under similar circumstances. Besides that, an ASOS costs six figures, so it's probably a bit more accurate than a home station

[snowman21]

More importantly an open area allows the wind to blow and keep the near-ground environment well mixed. You're able to effectively eliminate the impact of a runway when you have a nice breeze and the atmosphere is well mixed - as long as your thermometer is 100+feet away from said tarmac and 2m above the ground.

I tried making this exact same point the other day when the picture of BDL's 135F tarmac was posted. Maybe we should buy him the Arya intro to micromet book.

[OceanStWx]

It may not be that its more accurate...its necessary.  Planes carry a lot of people.  Its a safety thing and that's how it started.  We just have all grown up being accustomed to monitoring observations at ASOS and airports.  We know that if pattern X is as such, this is what we should see at the ASOS.  Everyone here has this little database in their head of what a given reading at an airport translates to "feeling" like in their backyard. 

 

All these years the dews were likely higher in our backyard, but we've been used to watching ASOS and taking that as the official record.  Its fun to know what it is in your backyard, but in the weather industry, people relate to the ASOS stations...it just is how it is. And its relatively consistent.  If we just moved all the ASOS into neighborhood backyards, its negates years and years of records and all that.  You're trying to compare apples to oranges with that stuff which is why most on here really don't care what the backyard dews are.

 

Well and preventative maintenance on ASOSs is more diligent than that of John Doe in Anytown, USA. Some PWS may be maintained to the highest standards, but most aren't.

[powderfreak]

More importantly an open area allows the wind to blow and keep the near-ground environment well mixed. You're able to effectively eliminate the impact of a runway when you have a nice breeze and the atmosphere is well mixed - as long as your thermometer is 100+feet away from said tarmac and 2m above the ground. 

 

Looking forward to the next tropical storm or hurricane to hit New England with Kevin's new ASOS in subdivisions plan. Maybe someone can score a 20 knot gust!

 

  Then we'd have the same exact discussion in reverse... "I gusted to 25mph, which means those open fields at the airports must've gusted to tropical storm level.  God I wish we had a weather station there to know for sure though."

[Ginx snewx]

Well and preventative maintenance on ASOSs is more diligent than that of John Doe in Anytown, USA. Some PWS may be maintained to the highest standards, but most aren't.

if they could only maintain their web service the same way....

[Damage In Tolland]

I'm not saying site all the ASOS in people's backyards. That's not the solution either.. There's plenty of open spaces in each and every town and city in this country. Some towns call them Green spaces or open spaces or whatever you want to call them. They can be in the middle of a city like Central park, or in a designated , town owned park or property...You could put them in a mall parking lot..wherever the hell you want. No matter what site you choose..those areas are going to be more true and realistic with the right mix of vegetation and concrete in the local environs, than an airport with massive planes and heat. and no vegetation anywhere near the ASOS.

 

And to Ryan's point about wind that's Winds blow more and faster at higher elevations than some open air tarmac 37 ASL that radiates at night. 

[powderfreak]

I'm not saying site all the ASOS in people's backyards. That's not the solution either.. There's plenty of open spaces in each and every town and city in this country. Some towns call them Green spaces or open spaces or whatever you want to call them. They can be in the middle of a city like Central park, or in a designated , town owned park or property...You could put them in a mall parking lot..wherever the hell you want. No matter what site you choose..those areas are going to be more true and realistic with the right mix of vegetation and concrete in the local environs, than an airport with massive planes and heat. and no vegetation anywhere near the ASOS.

 

And to Ryan's point about wind that's Winds blow more and faster at higher elevations than some open air tarmac 37 ASL that radiates at night. 

 

What would be the point, aside from throwing away up to 100 years worth of weather records?  When Ryan's giving the weather on the news and gives the current BDL conditions, how many people do you know are going "That's bullsh*t, my dew point was so much higher than that and my temperature was a degree cooler."  The public knows that's the temperature at the airport, its the official record. Its nothing more, nothing less.

 

It seems you feel that there shouldn't be much in the way of standards for temperatures...like snowman21 said, its a science and you need standards.  Sometimes you don't agree with the standards but you need to have them to compare data accurately.  Its the same with the whole snow board clearing every 6 hour discussion.  Some people don't like that, some do.  Most people that respect the idea of a controlled environment do appreciate these things. 

 

How would we compare a temperature over a mall parking lot, vs. the temperature over someones lawn, vs the temperature under someone's large Oak trees?  I bet on your own property you could get the temperature to vary like 10 degrees depending on where you put the thing.  How is that a controlled reading?

[Damage In Tolland]

What would be the point, aside from throwing away up to 100 years worth of weather records? When Ryan's giving the weather on the news and gives the current BDL conditions, how many people do you know are going "That's bullsh*t, my dew point was so much higher than that and my temperature was a degree cooler." The public knows that's the temperature at the airport, its the official record. Its nothing more, nothing less.

It seems you feel that there shouldn't be much in the way of standards for temperatures...like snowman21 said, its a science and you need standards. Sometimes you don't agree with the standards but you need to have them to compare data accurately. Its the same with the whole snow board clearing every 6 hour discussion. Some people don't like that, some do. Most people that respect the idea of a controlled environment do appreciate these things.

How would we compare a temperature over a mall parking lot, vs. the temperature over someones lawn, vs the temperature under someone's large Oak trees? I bet on your own property you could get the temperature to vary like 10 degrees depending on where you put the thing. How is that a controlled reading?

Why do you think they chose CPK as an ASOS years ago? And about BDL.. Here's the problem with that.. Since some genius determined to choose that as the official site in N CT.. The media uses that as a basis for all wx. For example Ryan forecasts 92 on Sunday...,so everyone watches that and assumes it will be in the 90's . Realizing of course that many folks do not live in the hills where it's cooler..why should the hottest point in all of NCT be used as the place where the official obs come from when it doesn't represent 95% of it's geographic region?

[Ginx snewx]

What would be the point, aside from throwing away up to 100 years worth of weather records?  When Ryan's giving the weather on the news and gives the current BDL conditions, how many people do you know are going "That's bullsh*t, my dew point was so much higher than that and my temperature was a degree cooler."  The public knows that's the temperature at the airport, its the official record. Its nothing more, nothing less.

 

It seems you feel that there shouldn't be much in the way of standards for temperatures...like snowman21 said, its a science and you need standards.  Sometimes you don't agree with the standards but you need to have them to compare data accurately.  Its the same with the whole snow board clearing every 6 hour discussion.  Some people don't like that, some do.  Most people that respect the idea of a controlled environment do appreciate these things. 

 

How would we compare a temperature over a mall parking lot, vs. the temperature over someones lawn, vs the temperature under someone's large Oak trees?  I bet on your own property you could get the temperature to vary like 10 degrees depending on where you put the thing.  How is that a controlled reading?

it does bug me when wxmen say Ct hit 90 or 0 today for the 20th time, 99% of the geography didn't but a tarmac did, its almost a misrepresentation of the state not a representation but it is what it is, just a quirk of mine.

[OceanStWx]

Why do you think they chose CPK as an ASOS years ago? And about BDL.. Here's the problem with that.. Since some genius determined to choose that as the official site in N CT.. The media uses that as a basis for all wx. For example Ryan forecasts 92 on Sunday...,so everyone watches that and assumes it will be in the 90's . Realizing of course that many folks do not live in the hills where it's cooler..why should the hottest point in all of NCT be used as the place where the official obs come from when it doesn't represent 95% of it's geographic region?

 

That's where the gov't office was that was keeping official records?

[Damage In Tolland]

Logan is another.. Why should that be used when it's on the ocean..and many times can be very different even from inland a few miles?