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Northern Ohio Obs/Discussion

NEOH

By NEOH,
in Lakes/Ohio Valley

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NEOH

NEOH

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I took this a couple weeks ago during the sunny and dry weather.

 

Hopefully KBKL will get their ASOS up and running again soon once the construction is done.

 

Great pic. I keep hoping the city shuts down Burke and does something with the prime piece of real estate that actually generates revenue. Probably not what a pilot wants to hear though.

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carumba

carumba

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Great pic. I keep hoping the city shuts down Burke and does something with the prime piece of real estate that actually generates revenue. Probably not what a pilot wants to hear though.

 

I can't believe this either. I have lived in Cleveland for nearly 10 years and I have never heard of a good reason why the waterfront is not more developed. I mean, Chicago is just as cold but they have apartments right near the water, they also have Navy Pier, they have the Shedd Aquarium and the Museum of Natural History, among other things.

 

Cleveland has the Great Lakes Science Center, Browns stadium, and the Rock'n'roll HOF. That is it, the rest of the waterfront is not developed. It's a real pity, Lake Erie is gorgeous in summer and for big chunks of the year, the climate is not that inhospitable!

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Trent

Trent

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I can't believe this either. I have lived in Cleveland for nearly 10 years and I have never heard of a good reason why the waterfront is not more developed. I mean, Chicago is just as cold but they have apartments right near the water, they also have Navy Pier, they have the Shedd Aquarium and the Museum of Natural History, among other things.

 

Cleveland has the Great Lakes Science Center, Browns stadium, and the Rock'n'roll HOF. That is it, the rest of the waterfront is not developed. It's a real pity, Lake Erie is gorgeous in summer and for big chunks of the year, the climate is not that inhospitable!

 

There are plans to convert the area behind Browns stadium to condos and restaurants.

 

The one thing to keep in mind about Cleveland's waterfront, is that it has been substantially pushed back from when the city was founded. Lakeside Avenue in downtown Cleveland was once actually on the lake, now it's 0.75 miles inland in spots. Over the years, dredging has slowly pushed the shoreline farther out into the lake, finally culminating in what is now Burke Airport. Brown's Stadium (err First Energy), the science center, and the Rock Hall would all be under water 100 years ago. 

 

I think there have been plans for turning Burke into something else, but the FAA has firmly said no to converting that airport to another use. That's also the most unstable of the infill that was put into the lake, so it can't really support much in the way of structures, but it would make a nice park.

 

As for the weather tonight and tomorrow, the BUF hi-RES models are really showing some decent lake effect rain bands (snow in the higher terrain?). Will be interesting to see if any accumulating snows unfold.

 

I remember getting a slushy inch or two of snow in Wooster in October of 2008. Then there was an early November lake effect event that mostly effected areas over 1050' in Cuyahoga County back in 2010. I measured 7" near Shaker Blvd and Richmond in Beachwood chasing that. Once you hit about 900' there was no snow with that one.

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FL510

FL510

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I don't want to get too political on the weather forum, but I will in this case -- I see both sides of the BKL argument.  Wanting to redevelop Burke sounds like a great idea, but a lot of redevelopment ideas seem to flop - The Waterfront Line, The Flats, the baseball stadium that nobody wants to go to, a lot of empty buildings in Cleveland.  If BKL were redeveloped, would it succeed?  A park is very nice, but unlikely to create significant revenue for the city. Where would the Cleveland Clinic park their aircraft?  Where would the Cleveland Federal Reserve use for aviation?  CGF only has one runway, it could be expanded if BKL closed -- but the neighbors in Richmond Heights won't have it.  

 

Chicago did have Meigs Field (adjacent to downtown along the lake) and has been largely unsuccessful in land redevelopment, and dare I say Chicago has much more going for it than Cleveland (sadly).

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-03-31/news/ct-met-meigs-field-10th-anniversary-0331-20130331_1_gia-biagi-meigs-field-northerly-island

 

BKL is a functioning airport -- redevelopment could bring more revenue and enjoyment, but what are the odds?  It would be a shame to shutdown something that adds value to a certain segment of the business community because of ideas that never come to fruition.  Cleveland seems to have so much potential, but since the 1950s hasn't embraced the possibilities.  

 

And most importantly, if BKL closed there would be no ASOS along the lake in dowtown Cleveland!   :lmao:

 

The city could close BKL if it chooses, however depending on the year of the closing it could potentially owe the FAA/federal government a large amount of money since most of BKL infrastructure comes from federal funds.  

 

So close BKL and the city may owe a lot of money, and the land likely won't be developed for at least a long period of time.  Doesn't seem like a good idea from a financial standpoint, mainly due to the history of Cleveland...not that the land can't be developed, but because it sadly wouldn't.

 

I've lived here almost 5 years now and I'm frustrated at the slow decay of the urban core on one hand, while thinking there are immense possibilities for the entire region on the other hand.  There are some great things happening in Cleveland...but it never seems like things really succeed long-term to make a difference.  Hopefully Cleveland's day will come (again), someday...

 

Will winds veer enough with this event to bring precipitation and thunder down towards Chagrin?  Seems like they may stay more westerly, perhaps those in southern Lake, northern most Geauga will get the most instability.

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NEOH

NEOH

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I don't want to get too political on the weather forum, but I will in this case -- I see both sides of the BKL argument. Wanting to redevelop Burke sounds like a great idea, but a lot of redevelopment ideas seem to flop - The Waterfront Line, The Flats, the baseball stadium that nobody wants to go to, a lot of empty buildings in Cleveland. If BKL were redeveloped, would it succeed? A park is very nice, but unlikely to create significant revenue for the city. Where would the Cleveland Clinic park their aircraft? Where would the Cleveland Federal Reserve use for aviation? CGF only has one runway, it could be expanded if BKL closed -- but the neighbors in Richmond Heights won't have it.

Chicago did have Meigs Field (adjacent to downtown along the lake) and has been largely unsuccessful in land redevelopment, and dare I say Chicago has much more going for it than Cleveland (sadly).

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-03-31/news/ct-met-meigs-field-10th-anniversary-0331-20130331_1_gia-biagi-meigs-field-northerly-island

BKL is a functioning airport -- redevelopment could bring more revenue and enjoyment, but what are the odds? It would be a shame to shutdown something that adds value to a certain segment of the business community because of ideas that never come to fruition. Cleveland seems to have so much potential, but since the 1950s hasn't embraced the possibilities.

And most importantly, if BKL closed there would be no ASOS along the lake in dowtown Cleveland! :lmao:

The city could close BKL if it chooses, however depending on the year of the closing it could potentially owe the FAA/federal government a large amount of money since most of BKL infrastructure comes from federal funds.

So close BKL and the city may owe a lot of money, and the land likely won't be developed for at least a long period of time. Doesn't seem like a good idea from a financial standpoint, mainly due to the history of Cleveland...not that the land can't be developed, but because it sadly wouldn't.

I've lived here almost 5 years now and I'm frustrated at the slow decay of the urban core on one hand, while thinking there are immense possibilities for the entire region on the other hand. There are some great things happening in Cleveland...but it never seems like things really succeed long-term to make a difference. Hopefully Cleveland's day will come (again), someday...

Will winds veer enough with this event to bring precipitation and thunder down towards Chagrin? Seems like they may stay more westerly, perhaps those in southern Lake, northern most Geauga will get the most instability.

All good points. I've lived in CLE my entire life, and my family has been here for 2 generations. Needless to say we've seen the good bad and ugly. The major issue with cleveland has always been leadership. Kucinich telling big business to leave because we didn't need them and so on. Many large companies left for tax advantages and headed to Chicago. Urban areas are actually doing better than nearby suburbs... Ohio city, tremont areas for example. Would CLE prosper from Burke development? Who knows... It's really the chicken and egg theory. I'm not sure how much money the city generates from Burke... I'm guessing not much if we rely heavily on federal funding.

Trent knows more about the land than I do... So perhaps it's just not suitable for development. Besides weekend warriors, sports teams and high profile clinic customers, I just don't see the future in keeping things as is. Nothing ventured nothing gained... We really don't have anything to lose by developing the land for some use... At least a park would bring people to the downtown area and lead to further support of downtown businesses.

Hopefully we'll all see some snow as winds come around to the nw tomorrow and Thursday.

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Trent

Trent

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I really can't make my mind up with tonight's snow potential...a really heavy band seems possible but temps are marginal at best. Could surprise in the higher terrain if a band sets up.

Had a decent graupel "storm" pass through along the lakeshore. 

 

It's such a marginal event overnight, but I'm hoping there are some first accums of the season east of town.

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OHweather

OHweather

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Had a decent graupel "storm" pass through along the lakeshore.

It's such a marginal event overnight, but I'm hoping there are some first accums of the season east of town.

Some of those showers affecting the lakeshore are really intense...pushing 50dBZ. I'd imagine you're seeing all kinds of stuff fall from the sky.

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OHweather

OHweather

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First Snow = October 23rd IMBY!

 

attachicon.giffirstsnow.jpg

Nice! I have to live vicariously here in Athens since all we could muster was 36 degrees with half hearted  snowflakes trying to mix in with a moderate rain this morning and a rain shower with a tiny bit of sleet around 8PM. The traffic cameras up and down 271 don't show anything on the interstate but have had some low visibilities over the past 15 minutes or so...especially 271 @ Chagrin from time to time.

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Trent

Trent

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Here comes the post-mortem Lake Effect Snow advisory.

I-90 on the west side was covered in snow and ice this morning. That whole thing about snow not accumulating in marginal temps where ground was warm is bunk. When you've got thunder snow it will stick immediately.

Very nice early season event! I think you'd be hard pressed to find earlier lake effect storms that deposited 4-6" in parts of Cuyahoga county.

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michsnowfreak

michsnowfreak

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Here comes the post-mortem Lake Effect Snow advisory.

I-90 on the west side was covered in snow and ice this morning. That whole thing about snow not accumulating in marginal temps where ground was warm is bunk. When you've got thunder snow it will stick immediately.

Very nice early season event! I think you'd be hard pressed to find earlier lake effect storms that deposited 4-6" in parts of Cuyahoga county.

The marginal temps jargon ia thrown around 1000 times a year and proven wrong 1000 times a year lol
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OHweather

OHweather

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Congrats!!! And here I was thinking the real stuff would hold off until Thanksgiving break. That is fantastic for October.

It's amazing how this overshot everyone's expectations. Yesterday I heard 2-4" in Geauga was "virtually impossible" due to the "warm ground." Now it looks like areas just a few miles inland are seeing those totals. Anyhow enjoy it, some areas may still see another inch or two yet.

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OHweather

OHweather

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CLE just bumped Cuyahoga up to a warning...I think winds swing NW and disrupt the band late this evening but areas from near 271 on east that are currently under the band may see another 2-4" after 5PM...elsewhere maybe some light accums as the band swings SW late this evening or just after midnight and then as multi-bands take over. It actually wouldn't shock me to see areas well inland from the lake start mixing with rain after midnight as the winds turn NW and mid level temps warm a tad.

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