ORH_wxman Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 If you include the October snow event, then this winter wasn't even close to the worst...I was comparing the DJFM periods to previous winters. October was so awesome and including it makes this winter bearable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 We've had conversations like this before on here and it's interesting that so many people have different aspects of winter and weather that they love. I'd take a Feb 1978 and trade 3 years of snow for it. Other people couldn't do that. I'd say October 11 I'd trade 2 years of snow... and March 1888 I'd trade 5 years of snow. Well if I could experience the blizzard of '78..I might do the same..lol. Deep down I would shed tears, but I have a thing for tremendous storms. It's one of the reasons 4/1/97 is so dear to me. In all honestly, my wife would probably have to keep all sharp objects away from me if I had 3 winters with no snow, but man..would I love to experience the bliz of '78. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Nate, it was the most anomolous event any of us will ever see. It was awesome, if short lived Not sure I agree with that...I remember October 28, 2009 clobbered the Adirondacks with close to 2' of snow in spots, so it's not that unusual for big October snows to occur at high elevations in the Northeast like the Monadnocks. I think it was much more anomalous for places like Dobbs Ferry, or in the CT River Valley where Ryan is, where any snow in October is a rarity. The most anomalous (and impressive) event for me was the 2/25/2010 Snowicane...how often do places right outside NYC see 25-30" snowfall on a retrograding 970mb low just two weeks after another major Nor'easter? The 1/3/2010 retrograding event that dropped 34" at Burlington and 20" on our campus at Middlebury was probably up there too. I'd also add Irene and the 18.95" of rainfall NYC saw in August 2011. And the extreme cold in Montana in June 2010 and the snowstorm we had on 6/16/2010 there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 It's all relative. It wasn't a great Winter here but it wasn't as bad as some make it out. While my max snow depth came in October I was able to maintain a snowpack for most of the Winter. I persued my favorite Winter sports without much trouble. There were at least frequent light snowfalls which helped keep the Winter mood going. Honestly though, we could have a blockbuster Winter and it would still pale in comparison to AK. Despite that fact it would take a truly awful Winter to get me to mope about and complain endlessly. I don't let moss grow under my feet, there is always a way to make a bad situation better. I'm an eternal optimist type. The way I look at it there's a good chance next Winter will be quite a bit better and if it's not well we're one Winter closer to the next epic season. WWA level snow AK style. Barely even noticed another 24+" overnight.lol I'm an optimist too, but this winter was for the birds in most areas. Warm and dry is bad all around. But, you do live high in the Berks..so the planet would have to tilt 30 degrees for you to have no snow..lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I would trade 3 years of snow for Feb 1978 where I lived in Foxboro.Seriously. 1888 the same. October 2011, probably not. Impact here was meh, but the impact for you was incredible, so I understand.I wish I lived here for Dec 1992 I'm not sure I'll see a better event in my lifetime here...perhaps and I hope. But that storm was so special in these parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 If you include the October snow event, then this winter wasn't even close to the worst...I was comparing the DJFM periods to previous winters. October was so awesome and including it makes this winter bearable. It was the extra credit assignment that kept it from getting an F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Nate, this October storm was probably a 1-200 yr event. This is the most anomalous SNE will ever see. I guarantee Rindge NH will not have 26" of snow on 10/29 for maybe another 200-300 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 The Oct storm is what separates those that got hit with 10"+ to those further east from interior NE MA to BOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 You'll have 2-3 more Feb 2010 storms in Dobbs Ferry compared to the 10/29/11 storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Nate, this October storm was probably a 1-200 yr event. This is the most anomalous SNE will ever see. I guarantee Rindge NH will not have 26" of snow on 10/29 for maybe another 200-300 years. I don't know...it seems like supposed 1 in 200 year events are happening regularly now. 09-10 was this historic winter for DCA-NYC that was not supposed to be repeated, and then the same type of intense sequence of Nor'easters and cold weather affected the NYC-BOS corridor the next year. The warmth in early April '10 seemed record-breaking, but now we are seeing similar temperatures just two Marches later. It seems the blocking, and perhaps climate change, is making the extremes more common. Especially in terms of heavy precipitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Not sure I agree with that...I remember October 28, 2009 clobbered the Adirondacks with close to 2' of snow in spots, so it's not that unusual for big October snows to occur at high elevations in the Northeast like the Monadnocks. I think it was much more anomalous for places like Dobbs Ferry, or in the CT River Valley where Ryan is, where any snow in October is a rarity. The most anomalous (and impressive) event for me was the 2/25/2010 Snowicane...how often do places right outside NYC see 25-30" snowfall on a retrograding 970mb low just two weeks after another major Nor'easter? The 1/3/2010 retrograding event that dropped 34" at Burlington and 20" on our campus at Middlebury was probably up there too. I'd also add Irene and the 18.95" of rainfall NYC saw in August 2011. And the extreme cold in Montana in June 2010 and the snowstorm we had on 6/16/2010 there. That hadn't happen basically ever on record before that. It was pretty obscene to get two events like that within 3 years (it was 2008 not 2009). The slide mountain coop at 2700 feet has had more snow in 2008 and 2011 than all other Octobers combined going back over 50 years. It was a rare event. The Monadocks had never seen anything remotely close to this past October previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hurricanes of Cat 3 hit New England more often than Oct 2011 snows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I don't know...it seems like supposed 1 in 200 year events are happening regularly now. 09-10 was this historic winter for DCA-NYC that was not supposed to be repeated, and then the same type of intense sequence of Nor'easters and cold weather affected the NYC-BOS corridor the next year. The warmth in early April '10 seemed record-breaking, but now we are seeing similar temperatures just two Marches later. It seems the blocking, and perhaps climate change, is making the extremes more common. Especially in terms of heavy precipitation. I don't know..I feel comfortable saying that. Maybe that happens 80- years from now, but the point is that the frequency of these events is so rare. Feb 2010 will happen again..probably sooner than you think. 2009-2010 was historic for DC and NYC..2010-2011 was historic for NYC and BOS. NYC happened to luck out in those years, but climo will get them eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 That hadn't happen basically ever on record before that. It was pretty obscene to get two events like that within 3 years (it was 2008 not 2009). The slide mountain coop at 2700 feet has had more snow in 2008 and 2011 than all other Octobers combined going back over 50 years. It was a rare event. The Monadocks had never seen anything remotely close to this past October previously. Sorry about the date, I was getting confused with the 10/16/2009 storm (is that the correct date?). I remember we had a few inches in the Poconos where I chased the storm at my family's vacation house. I agree that October 2011 was pretty special with the back-to-back events, but I don't think October snows are that rare in the Monadnocks (of course a major Nor'easter is extremely rare), but I still think the 10/29 storm was a bigger deal for the CT River valley where the societal impact with power outages and environmental damage was much greater, as well as the rarity of someone at 200' seeing a major October snow compared to someone at 1200' where it's fair game for snow once November approaches. I also don't think one storm makes a winter, no matter how great it was. 05-06 was a crappy winter in NYC despite the Feb 2006 storm being awesome. I spent much of the Feb 2006 storm outside with friends, it was an amazing time watching the snow grow deeper, and yet it still didn't make up for it being in the 60s in January. 05-06 was still better than this winter though because it did have a redeeming stretch in the first part of December in addition to one blockbuster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski MRG Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 If you include the October snow event, then this winter wasn't even close to the worst...I was comparing the DJFM periods to previous winters. October was so awesome and including it makes this winter bearable. Yeah, the 2 October accumulating snow events definitely made the Winter as a whole bearable. I agree with Scott, I don't think I'll see 31+" in October again. Not sure I agree with that...I remember October 28, 2009 clobbered the Adirondacks with close to 2' of snow in spots, so it's not that unusual for big October snows to occur at high elevations in the Northeast like the Monadnocks. I think it was much more anomalous for places like Dobbs Ferry, or in the CT River Valley where Ryan is, where any snow in October is a rarity. The most anomalous (and impressive) event for me was the 2/25/2010 Snowicane...how often do places right outside NYC see 25-30" snowfall on a retrograding 970mb low just two weeks after another major Nor'easter? The 1/3/2010 retrograding event that dropped 34" at Burlington and 20" on our campus at Middlebury was probably up there too. I'd also add Irene and the 18.95" of rainfall NYC saw in August 2011. And the extreme cold in Montana in June 2010 and the snowstorm we had on 6/16/2010 there. You've been inside too long if you think the Great pumpkin Storm was anything short of impressive. I will be lloking at the radar captures of that storm all summer. We were pounded, I've seen some big time snowfalls and that one is right up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hurricanes of Cat 3 hit New England more often than Oct 2011 snows Yes and if people think they had power problems this year, they really...really have no idea what they are in for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Nate, this was a truly crappy winter. But October made it memorable from the positive side, just like Morch is the opposite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I don't know..I feel comfortable saying that. Maybe that happens 80- years from now, but the point is that the frequency of these events is so rare. Feb 2010 will happen again..probably sooner than you think. 2009-2010 was historic for DC and NYC..2010-2011 was historic for NYC and BOS. NYC happened to luck out in those years, but climo will get them eventually. 2010-2011 was an amazing winter, but it wasn't a record breaker anywhere. Snow pack was probably a top 3 or 4 winter. Snow totals weren't quite top 5 (maybe BDL got top 5? not sure after the revisions). Great winter but 2010-2011 will definitely happen again probably sooner than most people would think. 2009-2010 was definitely more anomalous...mostly for Philly to DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Yes and if people think they had power problems this year, they really...really have no idea what they are in for. Careful, you will get a warning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski MRG Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 2010-2011 was an amazing winter, but it wasn't a record breaker anywhere. Snow pack was probably a top 3 or 4 winter. Snow totals weren't quite top 5 (maybe BDL got top 5? not sure after the revisions). Great winter but 2010-2011 will definitely happen again probably soner than most people would think. 2009-2010 was definitely more anomalous...mostly for Philly to DC. I'm getting all goose bumpy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 2010-2011 was an amazing winter, but it wasn't a record breaker anywhere. Snow pack was probably a top 3 or 4 winter. Snow totals weren't quite top 5 (maybe BDL got top 5? not sure after the revisions). Great winter but 2010-2011 will definitely happen again probably sooner than most people would think. 2009-2010 was definitely more anomalous...mostly for Philly to DC. BDL was #2 or #3 all time I believe in 10-11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hurricanes of Cat 3 hit New England more often than Oct 2011 snows Yeah no kidding. The return time is significantly more frequent for cat 3 hurricanes than low elevation 12"+ snows in October lol. Not sure what Socks is arguing. Even for the Monadnocks a 2ft+ even in October is exceedingly rare and pales in comparison to whatever storm he's referring to in 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Nate, this was a truly crappy winter. But October made it memorable from the positive side, just like Morch is the opposite I think the crappiness of the winter was much more memorable than October...just day after day of 10-15F departures. Have we ever seen a winter where every month from December through March averaged at least +5F? Will? I thought that 2010 was pretty bad in Middlebury but this is getting absolutely obscene. This comes after an autumn that was a complete torch except for one week in October. Again one storm does not a winter make. 05-06 and 82-83 were crappy winters for NYC despite blockbuster storms. The best winter of my life was 10-11, and it didn't have a storm over 14.5" in my backyard. 2010-2011 was an amazing winter, but it wasn't a record breaker anywhere. Snow pack was probably a top 3 or 4 winter. Snow totals weren't quite top 5 (maybe BDL got top 5? not sure after the revisions). Great winter but 2010-2011 will definitely happen again probably sooner than most people would think. 2009-2010 was definitely more anomalous...mostly for Philly to DC. I'd agree that 09-10 was most anomalous, but I think 10-11 for areas of southern CT and NYC metro was special. NYC had its second longest stretch of continuous snow cover since the historic 47-48 winter. It was the first time I'd seen three 12"+ events in my backyard (didn't even happen in Middlebury), and this was right near NYC. I'd argue that the frigid December (nearly -5F where I was living in the NYC 'burbs), along with the three major snows (>60mph winds during Boxing Day at my house), and the ice storm on 2/2 made 10-11 pretty much the king of winters. Sure, we didn't get the greatest snow total ever (that honor belongs to 60-61 in Dobbs Ferry and 95-96 in KNYC), and we didn't have the coldest weather...but the consistency of the cold/snowy pattern that started with the arctic front in mid-December was special. I'd never seen an NAO block that big either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Yeah no kidding. The return time is significantly more frequent for cat 3 hurricanes than low elevation 12"+ snows in October lol. Not sure what Socks is arguing. Even for the Monadnocks a 2ft+ even in October is exceedingly rare and pales in comparison to whatever storm he's referring to in 2009. ORH at 1,000 feet had never had an October snow event greater than 7.5" before this past October. Monadnocks haven't even had a 12" snow in October before this since we have been keeping records unless maybe you are at the top of Mt. Monadnock at 3100 feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Sorry about the date, I was getting confused with the 10/16/2009 storm (is that the correct date?). I remember we had a few inches in the Poconos where I chased the storm at my family's vacation house. I agree that October 2011 was pretty special with the back-to-back events, but I don't think October snows are that rare in the Monadnocks (of course a major Nor'easter is extremely rare), but I still think the 10/29 storm was a bigger deal for the CT River valley where the societal impact with power outages and environmental damage was much greater, as well as the rarity of someone at 200' seeing a major October snow compared to someone at 1200' where it's fair game for snow once November approaches. I also don't think one storm makes a winter, no matter how great it was. 05-06 was a crappy winter in NYC despite the Feb 2006 storm being awesome. I spent much of the Feb 2006 storm outside with friends, it was an amazing time watching the snow grow deeper, and yet it still didn't make up for it being in the 60s in January. 05-06 was still better than this winter though because it did have a redeeming stretch in the first part of December in addition to one blockbuster. Totally unmemorable 2 ft of snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Yeah no kidding. The return time is significantly more frequent for cat 3 hurricanes than low elevation 12"+ snows in October lol. Not sure what Socks is arguing. Even for the Monadnocks a 2ft+ even in October is exceedingly rare and pales in comparison to whatever storm he's referring to in 2009. I think we are basically agreeing...the storm was a monster for the CT River Valley where it destroyed tons of trees and left hundreds of thousands without power. Up here, it was a low-impact 25" that was quickly melted in an area that's accustomed to early and late season snowfalls. Exceedingly rare? Sure, we don't get a lot of 2' storms so to do it in October was crazy. Saved the winter? Absolutely not. Life was back to normal by the end of the next day and the snow was gone the following weekends. It really reminds me of Feb 2006 in NYC, a cheap way to break the record (low impact, quick-melting storm that happened to be a lot of inches that no one really cared about). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 October snows of 7.5" or greater in ORH have a 100% correlation to a sucky winter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I think we are basically agreeing...the storm was a monster for the CT River Valley where it destroyed tons of trees and left hundreds of thousands without power. Up here, it was a low-impact 25" that was quickly melted in an area that's accustomed to early and late season snowfalls. Exceedingly rare? Sure, we don't get a lot of 2' storms so to do it in October was crazy. Saved the winter? Absolutely not. Life was back to normal by the end of the next day and the snow was gone the following weekends. It really reminds me of Feb 2006 in NYC, a cheap way to break the record (low impact, quick-melting storm that happened to be a lot of inches that no one really cared about). Fair enough in terms of impact up there. Point taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 The difference between February 2006 and October 2011 (both 17" IMBY) was that the October snow took longer to melt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 The difference between February 2006 and October 2011 (both 17" IMBY) was that the October snow took longer to melt. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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