George BM

February Banter 2020

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17 hours ago, Stormpc said:

I lived in Oswego County for seven years. I am an avid snow lover. I got tired of it. Saw more snow than I ever needed. Was up there during the 1992-1993 season where we had over 300 inches in my area. I decided I couldn't take it anymore and moved down to Arlington the following year. So snow does have a shelf life for sure to some people. Especially when you get too much of it.

Just curious - Do you know if they have special building codes up there in the snow belt?  Normal 24" rafters with 5/8" sheathing won't withstand that sort of repeated snow loading on a flat pitched roof.  Not trolling here - always wondered if their code has extra factors built in.  Tks

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1 hour ago, RDM said:

Just curious - Do you know if they have special building codes up there in the snow belt?  Normal 24" rafters with 5/8" sheathing won't withstand that sort of repeated snow loading on a flat pitched roof.  Not trolling here - always wondered if their code has extra factors built in.  Tks

I’ve always thought it was dumb to use 24” spacing for roof trusses. On a house 56 feet long it saves 14 trusses. My trusses cost $186 each on a house 32’ wide. That amounts to $2600 dollars. Not much to pay for not having to worry about saggy plywood and the amount of snow a roof can handle. Same goes for 2x4 walls. On the house I built I had about 150 outside framing 2x6’s. It cost me an extra $300 vs 2x4’s. How long do you think it’ll take me to recoup that because of the better insulation?

Also don’t see the benefit of a low slope roof. Should be at least a 6-12

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2 hours ago, WinterWxLuvr said:

I’ve always thought it was dumb to use 24” spacing for roof trusses. On a house 56 feet long it saves 14 trusses. My trusses cost $186 each on a house 32’ wide. That amounts to $2600 dollars. Not much to pay for not having to worry about saggy plywood and the amount of snow a roof can handle. Same goes for 2x4 walls. On the house I built I had about 150 outside framing 2x6’s. It cost me an extra $300 vs 2x4’s. How long do you think it’ll take me to recoup that because of the better insulation?

Also don’t see the benefit of a low slope roof. Should be at least a 6-12

Couldn't agree more on the truss spacing and walls and the roof slope.  Never understood the logic in using measly 5/8" sheathing too.  Yea, it saves a few bucks, but why not go for full 3/4" tig and have a roof that will really hold up?  Not sure if you remember the fiasco around NOVA in the late 80's with the delaminating roof sheathing?  Impacted a lot of developments put up in the late 70's and early/mid 80's.  Because 5/8" is so thin, when there's a bad batch and/or void in the lamination the weakness in 5/8" exasperates the situation whereas 3/4 has a much greater ability to compensate for any manufacturing voids. 

On the roof slope, in some cases design and/or geometry drives a flatter slope.  However, the steeper the roof the stronger with a far less tendency to have ice dam issues.  Still curious what sort of construction standards they have in the GL snow belt to compensate for the snow load.  If we had 4 feet of snow on the roofs around here the impact would be terrible.   We saw some of that in 2010 with some collapses and damage due to ice damming.  Our code is for an ice dam layer as well around here, 2 rows if the pitch is 4-12 or flatter.  But we all know how that goes... 

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4 hours ago, RDM said:

Just curious - Do you know if they have special building codes up there in the snow belt?  Normal 24" rafters with 5/8" sheathing won't withstand that sort of repeated snow loading on a flat pitched roof.  Not trolling here - always wondered if their code has extra factors built in.  Tks

Wxlover is right about the truss spacing. But most of these older homes were built in the 40s and 50s or earlier and used stick-built roof systems with wood that came from local Mills. The heavy hard stuff that you can't find anymore. And most of them have 1x4 wood slat/ panel roof sheathing not the standard 5/8 inch plywood. Many of the homes have 7/12 to 12/12 pitches BUT most of the front or rear porches have far less pitch and tend to collapse if not maintained after a heavy snow that doesn't blow away.

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4 hours ago, WinterWxLuvr said:

Big games for UVa and UMd today

UMD could use a convincing win at home against a pretty good opponent, coming off a sloppy loss on the road that wasn't at all unexpected given how they have generally been winning ugly lately.

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1 hour ago, Stormpc said:

Wxlover is right about the truss spacing. But most of these older homes were built in the 40s and 50s or earlier and used stick-built roof systems with wood that came from local Mills. The heavy hard stuff that you can't find anymore. And most of them have 1x4 wood slat/ panel roof sheathing not the standard 5/8 inch plywood. Many of the homes have 7/12 to 12/12 pitches BUT most of the front or rear porches have far less pitch and tend to collapse if not maintained after a heavy snow that doesn't blow away.

Thanks.  Can relate to what you mean about the "heavy hard stuff".  My childhood home in Ohio was built in 1880, my brother's home not far away in 1860 (and my brother and his family are only the 3 occupants since 1860!).  In both structures, they used real wood that is nearly impossible to drive a nail into.  

In the early 80's when I was still at home we built a large detached garage addition at my parent's home for my dad's fire museum (all from the hand-pulled era of firefighting).  Dad thought he'd save some money and add a little nostalgia to the interior of the museum by using some reclaimed wood from a local barn tear-down.  It was rough sawn oak - rough dimensioned.  We used it for the studs on the ground floor.  Only after getting the walls up and second floor trusses in place did we realize today's modern nails would not cut it.  It took a dozen or so tries before we got the first 16 penny nail to go in.  We ended up having to drill every single hole by hand for the outside sheathing and firebreaks.  It was funny at first how hard that stuff was.  The novelty of it wore off fast when you have to drill several hundred nail holes by with an electric drill (properly undersized of course to provide good grip).  That stuff was literally tougher than nails.

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Here’s video of the drive home. I ended up driving the length of that big LES band last night lol. Rough ride. Poor video quality but you get the picture. 
 

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On 2/28/2020 at 10:56 PM, WxWatcher007 said:

 

Incredible footage! I saw a little of that, minus the snowpack right here in Austin earlier in Feb, for about an hour! It even accumulated a quarter inch on north facing slopes!

A quarter inch of snow is roughly equivalent to a 4-6 inch snowstorm in Dale City VA.

Wow man that is a TON of snow! It's definitely NOT fake snow, either!

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On 2/28/2020 at 5:13 PM, Stormpc said:

I lived in Oswego County for seven years. I am an avid snow lover. I got tired of it. Saw more snow than I ever needed. Was up there during the 1992-1993 season where we had over 300 inches in my area. I decided I couldn't take it anymore and moved down to Arlington the following year. So snow does have a shelf life for sure to some people. Especially when you get too much of it.

Maybe it gets old for you, but you all know me - I want snow even if I lived in a region with 10,000 inches of snow in a single season. I'd dig it all - WITH A JEBMAN SHOVEL. You'd NEVER hear me complain about too much snow!

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7 hours ago, Jebman said:

Incredible footage! I saw a little of that, minus the snowpack right here in Austin earlier in Feb, for about an hour! It even accumulated a quarter inch on north facing slopes!

A quarter inch of snow is roughly equivalent to a 4-6 inch snowstorm in Dale City VA.

Wow man that is a TON of snow! It's definitely NOT fake snow, either!

You would be proud, Jeb. I spent a lot of my trip helping people dig out. 

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23 hours ago, RDM said:

Just curious - Do you know if they have special building codes up there in the snow belt?  Normal 24" rafters with 5/8" sheathing won't withstand that sort of repeated snow loading on a flat pitched roof.  Not trolling here - always wondered if their code has extra factors built in.  Tks

I'm sure they do. High snow load is baked into the codes of any area that gets large amounts regularly. Colorado rockies are 2x6" walls minimum. Many houses are 2x8s. I can't remember trusses but they are beefed up for sure. I can't remember a single collapse in the 7 years I lived there. However, at least 2 people died from roof avalanches.

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3 hours ago, WxWatcher007 said:

You would be proud, Jeb. I spent a lot of my trip helping people dig out. 

When I drove into the CT blizzard in 2013 I spend a lot of the time digging people out. Amazed me why some thought it was a good idea to drive into 3 feet of snow in the vehicle they had with no shovel and obviously no experience driving in much snow. 

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On 2/29/2020 at 8:32 AM, mappy said:

Keep @H2O in your thoughts, his father in law is not well. :( 

thank you @mappy  After a long battle he is now at peace and won't be suffering anymore.  Sad times but now to reflect on a life that gave more than it took.

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2 hours ago, H2O said:

thank you @mappy  After a long battle he is now at peace and won't be suffering anymore.  Sad times but now to reflect on a life that gave more than it took.

I'm sorry for your loss.  I will keep your family in my prayers

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