ag3 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Mid town east side high of 86.5 http://classic.wunde...ay=29&year=2011 You need to look at all the official stations, including Newark. For Manhattan, always use the average of Central Park and Newark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 He's saying that LGA and NYC, which both had 82 as highs, are incorrect and that most people were 87. I didn't say they were "incorrect" I said they do not represent the 5 boroughs accurately and furthermore, the station called "NYC" does not even represent its own borough well. It's correct for it's location-- which is Central Park. But "Central Park" has a different microclimate from the surrounding area. Furthermore I said that EWR is the most representative of the big four in that it doesn't suffer from the same high min problem that LGA has or the foliage problem that NYC has. JFK is right up there with EWR on days when the wind is offshore-- which bolsters my argument. And I said 85-87. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 OK. LOL. LGA represents all of northern Queens very well. Except in winter, when its too warm. Central Park represents Bronx, Northern Queens and other areas very well. I had a high of 84 in Astoria and a high of 82 in Bayside, yesterday. So LGA's temp of 82 and Central Park's high of 82 matched up VERY well to two areas (Astoria and Bayside) that are worlds apart, in terms of urbanization and climate. Just like JFK represents the south shore very well on a southerly breeze but terribly for north shore, same with LGA. Here AG your neck of the woods.... Astroria, high of 84.2 http://classic.wunde...ay=29&year=2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I didn't say they were "incorrect" I said they do not represent the 5 boroughs accurately and furthermore, the station called "NYC" does not even represent its own borough well. It's correct for it's location-- which is Central Park. But "Central Park" has a different microclimate from the surrounding area. Furthermore I said that EWR is the most representative of the big four in that it doesn't suffer from the same high min problem that LGA has or the foliage problem that NYC has. JFK is right up there with EWR on days when the wind is offshore-- which bolsters my argument. And I said 85-87. You are incorrect about LGA. LGA represents millions of people accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Ok. So I should look at JFK for my temp? LOL! JFK is the least accurate of all 3 stations (NYC, LGA, EWR) for Manhattan, nortern Queens, northern Brooklyn, Bronx and the entire 100 mile north shore of LI. The northerly winds affect northern Brooklyn, northern Queens and all of the north shore of LI. They stay cooler do to the water (Brooklyn has the river, Queens has river and sound and LI has sound. LGA has no affect from sound on a north or nw wind. LGA is on the EAST river. NYC, away from cement and train factories is colder on a northerly wind then JFK is. Northern Manhattan is affected on northerlies as it sits on water also. See the PNS reports I posted.... most of the locations I looked at in Manhattan were around 84-85 (and your neck of the woods in Astoria was also), inland Brooklyn was 85-86. As far as the 100 mile north shore of Long Island-- do you honestly think LGA represents Port Jefferson or Huntington, etc. I agree that you can somewhat extend it's sphere of influence to the URBANIZED part of NW Nassau, but LGA has horrendous high min issues which make it completely unrepresentative of areas that are not highly urbanized. It doesn't even represent Bayside well, as Sundog has stated on numerous occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthlight Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 You need to know how to use these stations. Rather condescending, no? I think he knows how to use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 82 is not the same as 84 lol. Stop living this fantasy that LGA has no issues when we all know they clearly do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorEaster27 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Whats going on here? LGA can be influenced by local N / NE winds which is a sound breeze for them, JFK has a ton of days with a sea-breeze. Its well known on days of NW or North wind the south shore is the warmest, and its opposite on days of south / SW flow. CPK's thermo has been suspect due to the foliage for years, this is nothing new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacoman25 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 New Yorks observing stations are almost always a degree or three lower than the others on warm days.. The reasons vary but I take them to be typically accurate for their respective areas. That being said, there have been times when the NYC observation is a total joke...when every other station is so much warmer. I don't know how they let it slide on days like that. I think it's kind of nice to have a station in the middle of a huge city that isn't effected by concrete urbanization quite as much. To me, NYC Central Park temps reflect closer to what much of the area would experience if it wasn't a huge concrete jungle. Granted, if they have a lot more foliage near the sensor than most stations, that will help keep them "artificially" cooler on some days. But of course, the temps in many urban areas are actually truly artificial due to the non-natural surroundings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Rather condescending, no? I think he knows how to use them. He's telling me that LGA is usually wrong. It has its uses. Represents certain areas well. Central Park has its uses also. As does JFK. Im out of this crazy convo. Lets go Yankees!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Rather condescending, no? I think he knows how to use them. Probably a lot better than he does, considering I have a desktop program to sort out the numbers and throw out the ones which deviate from the rest lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthlight Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 He's telling me that LGA is usually wrong. It has its uses. Represents certain areas well. Central Park has its uses also. As does JFK. Im out of this crazy convo. Lets go Yankees!!! That's fine, but you can have an argument without condescending posts. I've had plenty of arguments & discussions with alex and none of them involved that. Just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 82 is not the same as 84 lol. Stop living this fantasy that LGA has no issues when we all know they clearly do. 84 is not the same as 87. Ive said from beginning that north facing area of Queens, Brooklyn, western Nassau and most of Manhattan were 82-84 yesterday. Not sure what your argument is anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 He's telling me that LGA is usually wrong. It has its uses. Represents certain areas well. Central Park has its uses also. As does JFK. Im out of this crazy convo. Lets go Yankees!!! You said it's always "correct"... that's a lot different from "it has its uses." You also completely ignored the LGA high min problem and the "NYC" foliage problem which gave them 3x as many 89 degree days as the other locations last year and has been a known issue with them for years. I'm not saying they're "incorrect"-- merely that most of New York City does not have the same microclimate as Central Park, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 That's fine, but you can have an argument without condescending posts. I've had plenty of arguments & discussions with alex and none of them involved that. Just sayin. OK. He knows we're just talking. Positive he doesnt take everything so seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 You said it's always "correct"... that's a lot different from "it has its uses." You also completely ignored the LGA high min problem and the "NYC" foliage problem which gave them 3x as many 89 degree days as the other locations last year and has been a known issue with them for years. I'm not saying they're "incorrect"-- merely that most of New York City does not have the same microclimate as Central Park, etc. The bolded is where we disagree. Show me proof. LGA is not for your area or for south shore areas. So when there is a south winds and you and JFK are 75 degrees and LGA is at 90, JFK is the thermometer most of us should use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 84 is not the same as 87. Ive said from beginning that north facing area of Queens, Brooklyn, western Nassau and most of Manhattan were 82-84 yesterday. Not sure what your argument is anymore. When the "official" reporting station is at the extreme end of the range, then yes there is a problem. There were no 82's in any of the data I analyzed outside of the Park and LGA. I never said everyone had a high of 87, I gave a range and 82 wasn't part of that range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACRUS Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Im not sure what to think from the lack of 12z euro posts, unless I missed it. The cool weather fans usually post as soon as the model shows something closer to what they like and the same for us hot weather fans. But so far nothing. My ecm site hasn't updated the 12z yet. But the 12z gfs continues with an overall warmer than normal pattern through the next 7 - 10 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 The bolded is where we disagree. Show me proof. LGA is not for your area or for south shore areas. So when there is a south winds and you and JFK are 75 degrees and LGA is at 90, JFK is the thermometer most of us should use? I need to show you proof that LGA has a high min problem? LOL Don't you remember all the times Sundog has complained that the overnight temp in LGA is like 5 degrees higher than any of the surrounding area? You should ask him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 When the "official" reporting station is at the extreme end of the range, then yes there is a problem. There were no 82's in any of the data I analyzed outside of the Park and LGA. I never said everyone had a high of 87, I gave a range and 82 wasn't part of that range. The info you posted showed 84. 82 is closer to 84 then 87. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 That's fine, but you can have an argument without condescending posts. I've had plenty of arguments & discussions with alex and none of them involved that. Just sayin. I don't remember ever arguing with you, John...... Just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 The info you posted showed 84. 82 is closer to 84 then 87. Sigh, that's not what I was saying but whatever. I was saying when the official recording stations are at one extreme of the range, that isn't a good sign for accuracy. Plus, I showed you a few Brooklyn reporting stations far away from the water that had high temps of 85-86 and that, my friend and namesake, is closer to 87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I need to show you proof that LGA has a high min problem? LOL Don't you remember all the times Sundog has complained that the overnight temp in LGA is like 5 degrees higher than any of the surrounding area? You should ask him. I complained as well as I used to live 1 minute from Sundog. Nightly lows in LGA do not represent NE Queens well, due to NE Queens having foliage and tree lined blocks. However, since I have moved to Astoria, LGA is very accurate for my night time lows. You have to know when and where to use certain stations. JFK on a strong south wind is USELESS to most people (unless you sit on south shore). LGA is USELESS to your area. and is Useless for Sundogs area for nightly lows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Sigh, that's not what I was saying but whatever. I was saying when the official recording stations are at one extreme of the range, that isn't a good sign for accuracy. Plus, I showed you a few Brooklyn reporting stations far away from the water that had high temps of 85-86 and that, my friend and namesake, is closer to 87 Williamsburg, which is on north shore of Brooklyn, had a high of 84. Same as Astoria. LGA is a little more east and was 82. Sundog's high was 82 yesterday and so was mine at work in Bayside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I complained as well as I used to live 1 minute from Sundog. Nightly lows in LGA do not represent NE Queens well, due to NE Quees having foliage and tree lined blocks. However, since I have moved to Astoria, LGA is very accurate for my night time lows. You have to know when and where to use certain stations. JFK on a strong south wind is USELESS to most people (unless you sit on south shore). LGA is USELESS to your area. and is Useless for Sundogs area for nightly lows. Well, I have some very good friends in Astoria (most of whom are Mets fans) and I know how close Astoria is to LGA so that makes sense. But then we have the issue of the 2 degree high temp difference.... I can accept 84 a lot easier than 82 because 84 is in line with most of the other stations from that area, but none had a high of 82 or even 83. What this also shows is LGA represents well only a small section of NW Queens as far as mins go, not NE Queens, much less the north shore of Long Island, parts of whom have temps much closer to those of FOK and ISP than they do LGA. I was specifically talking about situations when there is an offshore wind like there was yesterday, but if you look at it overall, under a wide variety of conditions-- the station with the least bias is EWR. It doesn't have the NYC foliage problem, it doesn't have the LGA high min problem and it doesn't have the JFK issue on a sea breeze day. On days when there isn't a sea breeze, JFK and EWR usually match up really well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrials Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 FIGHT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Well, I have some very good friends in Astoria (most of whom are Mets fans) and I know how close Astoria is to LGA so that makes sense. But then we have the issue of the 2 degree high temp difference.... I can accept 84 a lot easier than 82 because 84 is in line with most of the other stations from that area, but none had a high of 82 or even 83. What this also shows is LGA represents well only a small section of NW Queens as far as mins go, not NE Queens, much less the north shore of Long Island, parts of whom have temps much closer to those of FOK and ISP than they do LGA. I was specifically talking about situations when there is an offshore wind like there was yesterday, but if you look at it overall, under a wide variety of conditions-- the station with the least bias is EWR. It doesn't have the NYC foliage problem, it doesn't have the LGA high min problem and it doesn't have the JFK issue on a sea breeze day. On days when there isn't a sea breeze, JFK and EWR usually match up really well Here's the conclusion we both agree on: On northerly winds LGA is useless to anyone away from the north facing shores. On southerly winds JFK is uselss to anyone away from south facing shorelines. We are in agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Williamsburg, which is on north shore of Brooklyn, had a high of 84. Same as Astoria. LGA is a little more east and was 82. Sundog's high was 82 yesterday and so was mine at work in Bayside. Brooklyn doesn't have a north shore though-- if you look at it geographically, Queens "cuts it off" from having access to the sound. And when I look up Williamsburg, it shows me Crown Heights, which had a high of 85.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Here's the conclusion we both agree on: On northerly winds LGA is useless to anyone away from the north facing shores. On southerly winds JFK is uselss to anyone away from south facing shorelines. We are in agreement. lol this is true. I think you agree about the LGA high min issue also lol. It's particularly annoying in the fall when LGA gets a first freeze like a month after the rest of the area. I now have to convince you that Brooklyn doesn't have a north shore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 FIGHT! lol not really, we're too busy applauding CC's performance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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