michsnowfreak

Agree, nothing is clear cut. Snowfall is and always has been subject to human error to begin with. But on top of this, some make these broad assumptions about past data as if they were there at the exact spot when it was measured, which obviously is not the case. I too agree there wasn't a swipe method 100+ years ago (again, that dates back about 75 years) but back then you had humans, not a machine, observing the weather every hour. Now an observer only goes out at a scheduled time. Lastly on this discussion, I have seen the argument that NYC is more feast or famine than it used to be, and that in the old days they had more 2-4/3-5 type snowfalls. Well if that's the case, that's even less to worry about wrt past snow data. I have been measuring snowfall for 30 years in a climate that gets lots of small to moderate snowfalls and the occasional big storm. I can tell you for a fact that the settling of your average ratio synoptic snow is a lot less in the smaller/moderate snowfalls than the large ones.

Picked up 0.35" of rain with the squall line overnight. There was hail im told, but I slept through it all lol.

Ive seen that link many times in the 10 years since it was written/published someone who does not work at the NWS. Most first order sites are airports, so it would be extremely odd if NYC didnt follow that practice like all others did. Are there any mets here who work for OKX NWS that can confirm this alleged information? Even if it is true in the isolated case of NYC, I have heard many posters from your region complain about the snow measurements at Central Park. As I said earlier in this thread, if you look at the old weather books, the precision with which weather data was kept was astounding and far superior to today. They measured the snowfall every hour, even if the board or surface with which they measured wasnt swiped. They also noted snowfall and depth, which often varied somewhat, which leads me to wonder IF there were errant practices going on at the biggest city of them all, NYC, whereas other areas were more accurate, thats a big wtf.

As expected, Cleveland was an extreme cherry pick by TCC, and does not match the overall trend of snowfall in the lower Great Lakes region. For most big metros, snowfall hit a dip (in some cases, a big dip) in the 1990s before rebounding dramatically in the 2000s. I assumed TCC grew up in PA where he lives now, but mustve been Cleveland, as Pittsburgh joins other areas in a much snowier 2010s. Considering the snowfall at Cleveland Hopkins airport averaged in the upper 40s thru low 50s in the 1940s-1960s, then suddenly jumped into the 60s in the 1980s-90s, then 70s in the 2000s before falling back into the low 50s in the 2010s (a match to the same location in the 1950s, and still snowier than the 1940s or 1960s) makes me wonder if there have been site changes in where snow is measured. You are typically allowed a good 5-mile radius with which to measure snow around a first order site, but in an area where snake-like lake effect bands can blast one area and leave another a few miles away untouched, this would make a huge difference whereas in a non lake belt region a move of a few miles would be negligible. Avg snowfall DETROIT 1980s- 45.2” 1990s- 37.9” 2000s- 45.3” 2010s- 49.9” FLINT 1980s- 43.6” 1990s- 42.5” 2000s- 55.5” 2010s- 57.4” CHICAGO 1980s- 38.1” 1990s- 32.2” 2000s- 38.5” 2010s- 42.7” FORT WAYNE 1980s- 37.7” 1990s- 29.3” 2000s- 33.5” 2010s- 36.4” PITTSBURGH 1980s- 37.8” 1990s- 40.9” 2000s- 41.0” 2010s- 49.4” CLEVELAND 1980s- 64.9” 1990s- 61.2” 2000s- 76.9” 2010s- 53.1”

And it's completely different from my recollections. It was less much less snowy during my childhood/teen years in the 1990s than during the 2000s-2010s. Cleveland, which is nowhere near the coastal I95 cities, was an aberration in the lower Lakes, as most of the region saw snowier winters in the 2000s and 2010s than the 1990s, especially synoptically. Cleveland is much more prone to the hits and misses of lake effect bands.

Im also getting tired of this "we measured snow differently before the 1990s". For the millionth time, snowfall at most first order stations (which is the only place you will get a non-stop climate record dating to the 1800s) has been measured this way since 1950 or so. I know a meteorologist who worked for the NWS in the 1970s. It was standard procedure the same as it is now. Furthermore, snow was measured pre-1950s by meteorologists/employees at the weather bureau office, likely very precisely. Look at old weather record books (your local NWS office has them) and you will see what I mean about the detail and precision and care they took with records back then. They monitored the weather hourly with snow and rain, whether they swiped or not. You think todays observers monitor every snowfall hourly? I think not. And lastly, its laughable to assume measurements since the 1990s are so good when we have seen FAA/Airport take over and the NWS at times struggle to get good observers, and in more cases than not, snow is not measured by NWS employees.

Regardless of enso, cc, or anything else, winters always ebb and flow. They always have and they always will. Many factors can absolutely influence, but they aren't a slam dunk for anything. We dont get noreasters in the southern Great Lakes and the 2000s saw above average snowfall at Detroit while the 2010s were the snowiest decade on record. It was just a great period for many.

Nice! Id love to visit MN someday. I like living where I do and visiting northern MI, so maybe just take lots of trips to northern MN.

Yes thats why Im a suburbs person. Sounds like you plan to stay in MN instead of returning to IL, which is cool. I LOVE sugar maples!

haha its almost like an addiction...I want more trees...but I have no more room! Do you keep any of the sapplings to grow in your yard? Its fun to watch them grow and quite honestly, its my favorite part of spring. My neighbor has 3 big white pines too. Our backyards of southern MI are very "northern exposure" lol. You actually see a lot of white paper birch trees, a ton of white pines (MI state tree) and quite a few balsam and douglas firs in southern MI even though "up north" is their natural habitat.

Unusually impressive diurnal ranges the past week here. Forecast to go to 80-82 today. DTW high / low 05-07: 76 / 48 05-08: 58 / 40 05-09: 66 / 36 05-10: 80 / 45 05-11: 67 / 46 05-12: ?? / 44

Hopefully you get some rain soon, dont need those beautiful northwoods to burn! Im a lover of all things northern trees lol; my backyard has 2 balsam firs (1 is massive), 1 douglas fir, a white paper birch tree, a white pine, a norway spruce & an autumn blaze maple.

Crazy to see 96° at International Falls, MN today. The icebox of the nation. Detroit has never officially hit 96° in May! Very pleasant Mother's Day here. Lows in the mid 40s, highs mid 60s and going back to the 40s tonight.

I couldn't agree more. Although many years seems like we go from AC September to heat October.

Had the heat on off and on so far in May. I do NOT want to go right to AC lol.