also....the reason why I say there is no defined enso pattern for us is no matter what signal you get, chances are (I'd say 9 out of 10), it'll be above normal temps.....el nino, we have above normal temps, la nina we have above normal temps, neutral, we have above normal temps. It all comes down to timing between storms and the short duration cold shots we do get. You'll be right 90% of the time if you forecast a milder than normal winter, the real talent is in forecasting how much snow and when lol.