Chair lift incident at Sugarloaf

[Baroclinic Zone]

Yeah, we established that 2 pages back, but thanks

[HoarfrostHubb]

Lol, I'm actually the worst at that.

[powderfreak]

http://www.jmphotocr...y/spillway3.JPG

I was on the other side of this unique "double-runner" style chairlift when this happened. I saw the other side stop with a strange jerk that I had never seen before. Then we came up to the scene where the rope was on the ground, and it was a very scary and bizzare thing to behold. And then I saw my mother - she was on the side that crashed, on one of the chairs that hit the ground. She is ok. Very shaken-up and some bruises, but basically fine. She skied down on her own. I took some pics of the scene with my wife's phone that I will post later when I can download them. According to my mom, the crash appeared to be caused by a mechanic who was up on the tower. He was banging on the shieve-train with a hammer or something, which they are known to do from time to time for god knows what reason, but he was doing that around the time the rope came off the wheels somehow. The worst looking injury was a guy pinned under a chair and he couldn't get himself out, I believe due to his injuries, but he was conscious.

Jesus... there's certainly something the public doesn't know about this yet. Speculation about why someone was on the tower would be clearing rime ice from the shieve or maybe even re-aligning it a bit as maybe extremely high winds could have messed out the ailgnment by a fraction of an inch or something. Normally that is not something you do though when the lift is running, unless it was just one shieve wheel out of whack a little.

The other thing I can't figure out is how the haul rope missed the rope catcher. Its not common, but relatively for a lift to de-rope/de-rail from the shieve (relatively common, of course, but I've seen it happen at a few areas) but there are rope catchers on either side of the lift tower that prevent cables from falling... that's why you never hear about a lift actually falling.

[amarshall]

They are lucky. Big time lucky. They could have been on a lift like Slide Brook Express Quad at Sugarbush that spans two mountain peaks. At some points you're at least 100 feet up.

[Baroclinic Zone]

Jesus... there's certainly something the public doesn't know about this yet. Speculation about why someone was on the tower would be clearing rime ice from the shieve or maybe even re-aligning it a bit as maybe extremely high winds could have messed out the ailgnment by a fraction of an inch or something. Normally that is not something you do though when the lift is running, unless it was just one shieve wheel out of whack a little.

The other thing I can't figure out is how the haul rope missed the rope catcher. Its not common, but relatively for a lift to de-rope/de-rail from the shieve (relatively common, of course, but I've seen it happen at a few areas) but there are rope catchers on either side of the lift tower that prevent cables from falling... that's why you never hear about a lift actually falling.

This lift has a hanging sheave train. Leads me to believe that there may have been a failure at that point. Just speculating though.

[bobbutts]

Watching the NBC Boston local news show last night after the game they pretty much concluded (without any evidence) that it was caused by wind. I doubt that it was the real reason but obviously can't eliminate it at this point. Most lifts have at least an anemometer or two, so I'd think the resort has a quantitative record of exact wind speeds in the area at the time of the accident. By the time they do figure it out and release info this will probably no longer be a top story so I guess regardless of what happened, perception will be that wind caused this.

[HoarfrostHubb]

Not sure why the Loaf has these lifts... they can afford to upgrade this I would think. Such a weird setup. Maybe they are trying to preserve the "gnarly" Sugarloaf feel.

[bobbutts]

Not sure why the Loaf has these lifts... they can afford to upgrade this I would think. Such a weird setup. Maybe they are trying to preserve the "gnarly" Sugarloaf feel.

They did add the "Superquad" several years back that parallels the Double Runner/Spillway monstrosity and probably helped lower the priority of replacing it. Of the Boyne resorts, Loon got South Peak, Sunday River got the Chondola, and Sugarloaf got basically nothing in the past few years.

[Baroclinic Zone]

From one of the riders on the lift, they are pretty adamant that it was not a wind issue.

[Baroclinic Zone]

From one of the riders on the lift, they are pretty adamant that it was not a wind issue.

This is what I am reading now.

" The crash was caused by a mechanic who was up on the tower banging on the shieve-train with a hammer or something, which they are known to do from time to time for god knows what reason, but he knocked the rope off the wheels. "

[HoarfrostHubb]

I skiied off the old gondola back in the early 1990's... not really missed.

Back in the day that was the way to access the snowfields. Have not been there in quite a while, but the trail where the Gondola used to go over would be great without the towers, etc.

But the need a new lift. What a crazy mountain. Reggae there is the best

[Baroclinic Zone]

Well we can end the speculation.

CARRABASSETT VALLEY, Maine—Investigators say high wind was a 'primary factor' in a chair lift accident at a Maine ski area that injured eigh

Sugarloaf spokesman Ethan Austin says the preliminary findings were made Wednesday by inspectors from the Maine Board of Elevator and Tramway Safety, assisted by Sugarloaf officials.

The investigation into Tuesday's lift mishap is continuing.

[Ginx snewx]

Well we can end the speculation.

CARRABASSETT VALLEY, Maine—Investigators say high wind was a 'primary factor' in a chair lift accident at a Maine ski area that injured eigh

Sugarloaf spokesman Ethan Austin says the preliminary findings were made Wednesday by inspectors from the Maine Board of Elevator and Tramway Safety, assisted by Sugarloaf officials.

The investigation into Tuesday's lift mishap is continuing.

LOL what else would they say, get OSHA in there ASAP

[Baroclinic Zone]

LOL what else would they say, get OSHA in there ASAP

What do you mean Steve?

A woman on the lift was adamant it was not the wind and there was a worker on the pole where the lift derailed.

[powderfreak]

This lift has a hanging sheave train. Leads me to believe that there may have been a failure at that point. Just speculating though.

Hmm, I've never seen that before. Is that a pic of the lift? If so, I'm not really seeing any sort of cable catcher, but it might be that thing that juts off the end of the catwalk... but hard to tell from that angle. Usually there's a steel catcher attached to the outside edge of the sheave train.

Overall, a very unfortunate accident and we had a lot of inquiries about our lifts at Stowe today. The bottom line is there is a very specific chain of events that had to go very wrong in order for something like this to happen. I'm not sure if the State of Maine will make the report public, but the Tramways investigation report will likely be quite interesting.

[Baroclinic Zone]

Hmm, I've never seen that before. Is that a pic of the lift? If so, I'm not really seeing any sort of cable catcher, but it might be that thing that juts off the end of the catwalk... but hard to tell from that angle. Usually there's a steel catcher attached to the outside edge of the sheave train.

Overall, a very unfortunate accident and we had a lot of inquiries about our lifts at Stowe today. The bottom line is there is a very specific chain of events that had to go very wrong in order for something like this to happen. I'm not sure if the State of Maine will make the report public, but the Tramways investigation report will likely be quite interesting.

That is an actual shot of one of the lift towers. The lift is like 35 years old and is slated for replacement in their future plans from what I have been reading. It's a Borvig lift.

[Ginx snewx]

What do you mean Steve?

A woman on the lift was adamant it was not the wind and there was a worker on the pole where the lift derailed.

high wind was a 'primary factor'

[Baroclinic Zone]

high wind was a 'primary factor'

Meaning it was likely not the "only factor".

What was this worker doing up on the lift tower where the lift derailed? He had a sledge hammer and was wailing away on something.

[powderfreak]

high wind was a 'primary factor'

Correct..

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1306072

I know there's a lady that was saying it wasn't windy but I mean, she could've been on a part of the lift that wasn't exposed as much or even a couple hundred vertical feet lower where it wasn't as windy or something.

What makes me think it was wind (aside from the fact that the entire northeast, especially the mountains, were seeing very high winds) is that reports are that the lift stopped briefly, then started up again, then the accident happened. That to me says that someone (an operator or a mechanic) saw the winds getting gusty and stopped the lift... that's fairly common practice. Then the gust died down, they started it back up, and then probably got hit with an even stronger gust. Quite often during windy days, lifts will start and stop with the gusts, as usually the top operator or life mechanic sees chairs start to swing. The fact that the lift stopped briefly, before starting up again right before the incident definitely seems to indicate they were "right on the edge" as far as being able to run the lift in the wind.

Sugarbush's (in Vermont) President put out this nice little write-up regarding wind and their lifts over the past couple days (kudos to them for being straightforward):

http://www.sugarbush.com/about-vermont-resort/president-blog

For all you skiers and snowboarders out there... this is certainly a prime example of why lifts go on wind hold. And when they do, you may not feel it is all that windy, but never second-guess the decision. I can understand why Win wrote that little piece because likewise at Stowe, we get a lot of people who complain about lifts being on wind hold... saying everything from the ski area is just trying to save money on the electric bill... to they want to save the snow for tomorrow's skiers, etc. The reasons people come up with are just astounding to me. Trust me, the resort wants to run the lifts just as bad as you want them to open, but if the wind is bad enough for seasoned, hardy lift mechanics (who probably have a much higher threshold of fear than most people) to say they wouldn't ride it... then you don't want to get on that lift, haha.

[Baroclinic Zone]

Does anyone recall the incident with the Sunday River Barker Express Quad? The lift was originally a Yan lift and one of the chairs came detached and slid back down the cable crushing the people in the chair behind This happened like 15 years ago..

[powderfreak]

Meaning it was likely not the "only factor".

What was this worker doing up on the lift tower where the lift derailed? He had a sledge hammer and was wailing away on something.

I do find that odd that just moments before there was someone on the exact same tower as the one that was involved in the incident... however (and I'm not trying to defend them in any way, just thinking aloud), it is true that this is pretty common practice at a ski resort. Every single day there's someone doing something up on a lift tower whether its just routine maintenance, or fixing a minor glitch, replacing a non-essential part, clearing rime ice from the sheaves and tower, etc... I mean, that's the job of the lift mechanics and it could've been purely coincidental but I agree, that might just be *too* coincidental.

If one of the sheaves in the train was jammed and not spinning, he may have been up there just loosening up some snow/ice buildup (which would explain the banging)... that's fairly common, too. However, maybe something was looser than it should have been and so the clearing of the snow/ice buildup to free the sheave wheel knocked it out of alignment a bit.... but one out of alignment by a degree or two, wouldn't cause it to completely derail unless the haul rope was under extreme force/pressure and that's probably where the wind comes in. I certainly believe that whatever happened, would not have happened without the excessive force/stress of the wind.

Like I said... this is all pure speculation (sort of like Ray's thread on "what went wrong with the HECS") but in an accident like this there's certainly going to be several factors that go into it and the chances of those factors ever lining up again like they did is extremely small. Its like the perfect storm of circumstances.

[Ginx snewx]

Does anyone recall the incident with the Sunday River Barker Express Quad? The lift was originally a Yan lift and one of the chairs came detached and slid back down the cable crushing the people in the chair behind This happened like 15 years ago..

I was on a chair in Feb 01 blizzard when a gust of wind slammed the chair in front of me, empty, into the tower, detachable quad on Barker, the dent is still there. Freak dude the winds were not off the hook, something else went wrong.

[powderfreak]

I was on a chair in Feb 01 blizzard when a gust of wind slammed the chair in front of me, empty, into the tower, detachable quad on Barker, the dent is still there. Freak dude the winds were not off the hook, something else went wrong.

Yeah I agree... but I bet the winds played a role somehow.

Anyway, I also mean to respond to what you said a few pages back regarding Sugarloaf vs. Sunday River.... Sunday Rivah is a slick operation; those folks know how to run a ski area and do a great job with what nature has given them. They may not receive the most snow, but from what I've heard they have consistently the best snow surface condition (which is of huge importance for folks who don't have the luxury to be able to ski/ride all the time or at the drop of a hat, but must plan a vacation well in advance). They are very well regarded in the industry for their ability to recover after a thaw-freeze cycle... and in the east, that is incredibly important.

[Baroclinic Zone]

Yeah I agree... but I bet the winds played a role somehow.

Anyway, I also mean to respond to what you said a few pages back regarding Sugarloaf vs. Sunday River.... Sunday Rivah is a slick operation; those folks know how to run a ski area and do a great job with what nature has given them. They may not receive the most snow, but from what I've heard they have consistently the best snow surface condition (which is of huge importance for folks who don't have the luxury to be able to ski/ride all the time or at the drop of a hat, but must plan a vacation well in advance). They are very well regarded in the industry for their ability to recover after a thaw-freeze cycle... and in the east, that is incredibly important.

Sugarloaf, Sunday River, and Loon are all owned and run by Boyne.

[Ginx snewx]

Yeah I agree... but I bet the winds played a role somehow.

Anyway, I also mean to respond to what you said a few pages back regarding Sugarloaf vs. Sunday River.... Sunday Rivah is a slick operation; those folks know how to run a ski area and do a great job with what nature has given them. They may not receive the most snow, but from what I've heard they have consistently the best snow surface condition (which is of huge importance for folks who don't have the luxury to be able to ski/ride all the time or at the drop of a hat, but must plan a vacation well in advance). They are very well regarded in the industry for their ability to recover after a thaw-freeze cycle... and in the east, that is incredibly important.

Looking for a new jobLOl

[Ginx snewx]

AWT

(AP)  CARRABASSETT VALLEY, Maine - Ski area maintenance workers dispatched to realign a lift cable were unable to fix the problem and had restarted the lift in an attempt to off-load riders when the cable derailed, sending skiers plummeting 25 feet to 30 feet, the resort said Wednesday.

High winds had shut down the lift at Sugarloaf in the hours before Tuesday's accident, but it was cleared for operations and reopened just before 10 a.m. About 20 minutes later, the two maintenance workers saw the cable was out of place and were preparing to shut down the lift when the cable jumped its track.

[Baroclinic Zone]

AWT

(AP) CARRABASSETT VALLEY, Maine - Ski area maintenance workers dispatched to realign a lift cable were unable to fix the problem and had restarted the lift in an attempt to off-load riders when the cable derailed, sending skiers plummeting 25 feet to 30 feet, the resort said Wednesday.

High winds had shut down the lift at Sugarloaf in the hours before Tuesday's accident, but it was cleared for operations and reopened just before 10 a.m. About 20 minutes later, the two maintenance workers saw the cable was out of place and were preparing to shut down the lift when the cable jumped its track.

i smell a lawsuit.

[powderfreak]

AWT

(AP) CARRABASSETT VALLEY, Maine - Ski area maintenance workers dispatched to realign a lift cable were unable to fix the problem and had restarted the lift in an attempt to off-load riders when the cable derailed, sending skiers plummeting 25 feet to 30 feet, the resort said Wednesday.

High winds had shut down the lift at Sugarloaf in the hours before Tuesday's accident, but it was cleared for operations and reopened just before 10 a.m. About 20 minutes later, the two maintenance workers saw the cable was out of place and were preparing to shut down the lift when the cable jumped its track.

Wow, good call, Steve. That smells like a big problem for them... their insurance company will not like that.

[Ginx snewx]

i smell a lawsuit.

Unfortunate decision to restart with a derail viewed. Good thing no one was killed.

[Ginx snewx]

Wow, good call, Steve. That smells like a big problem for them... their insurance company will not like that.

I have 30 plus years of Mechanical experience , safety Etc. My training and experience told me immediately mechanical failure, those lifts I am sure have run with much higher winds.

It is scary sometimes when I see the part timers and people who have no experience having peoples lives in their hands. In this recession the first cuts are maintenance, eventually that leads to catastrophe. I am very worried about our infrastructure and the ability of Corporations to protect us. Hopefully this wakes up this industry, they got a break nobody died.