CoastalWx Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 I'm actually amazed at how bad some pilots are with the on-board radars. From the training I've done, those radars aren't anything like our WSR-88Ds. Basically they suffer from attenuation in heavy precip. So in some cases the big hail cores completely block out echoes down radial, thus pilots see a clear screen and head for that "gap" when in actuality it's the worst part of the storm. But in this case, I mean it had to have been a fairly isolated supercell right? How does one just fly into that? But even if they cannot see hail cores, the reflectivity should have noticeable around the big cells...that was a complex. I also heard the plane was late in taking off Logan. Hmm...sounds like they may have been trying to get people to the destination too, in spite of weather. ATC will start to route planes around the northeast when two cells pop up...how they flew into a burgeoning MCS is beyond me. They also do not have internet access because of the risk of hackers. I know some pilots like to check radar, but I think that's a thing of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 But even if they cannot see hail cores, the reflectivity should have noticeable around the big cells...that was a complex. I also heard the plane was late in taking off Logan. Hmm...sounds like they may have been trying to get people to the destination too, in spite of weather. ATC will start to route planes around the northeast when two cells pop up...how they flew into a burgeoning MCS is beyond me. Okay, so that makes more sense to me now (still not good though!). If it was a complex of storms, the most intense core would appear to be the easiest gap to run if you were going to try and punch the line. I haven't seen anything about a crew, but I would think that a more experienced pilot would know that the radar would be giving false hope in that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Okay, so that makes more sense to me now (still not good though!). If it was a complex of storms, the most intense core would appear to be the easiest gap to run if you were going to try and punch the line. I haven't seen anything about a crew, but I would think that a more experienced pilot would know that the radar would be giving false hope in that situation. Yeah I can only speculate. Also, I don't know the exact time it happened and what radar looked like at the time either...but I think it was when the complex was forming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 How does severe threat look on Tuesday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Yeah I can only speculate. Also, I don't know the exact time it happened and what radar looked like at the time either...but I think it was when the complex was forming. Well that at least makes more sense to me. Because an isolated cell should, in theory, be much easier to divert around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Well that at least makes more sense to me. Because an isolated cell should, in theory, be much easier to divert around. Yeah agree. Apparently a Southwest Airlines flight went through same area with a lot of turbulence too. It's almost a given for me to forecast at least moderate turbulence either on the backside or downwind of a MCS because of how much they alter the local environment. Subsidence usually on the west and northwest side of these systems as the jet impinges on the complex and has nowhere to go, but around or down because of strong updrafts. Latent heat will locally increase jet just downwind of complex too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Yeah agree. Apparently a Southwest Airlines flight went through same area with a lot of turbulence too. It's almost a given for me to forecast at least moderate turbulence either on the backside or downwind of a MCS because of how much they alter the local environment. Subsidence usually on the west and northwest side of these systems as the jet impinges on the complex and has nowhere to go, but around or down because of strong updrafts. Latent heat will locally increase jet just downwind of complex too. I'm probably the worst person to fly with (I know my fiancee hates it) because it's not all that hard to anticipate turbulence based on the cloud formations around you. CAT is a different story though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 I'm probably the worst person to fly with (I know my fiancee hates it) because it's not all that hard to anticipate turbulence based on the cloud formations around you. CAT is a different story though. Yeah I'm big on clouds and the gradients you see on water vapor. CAT is always tough. A lot of what I do is pattern recognition. Sometimes it doesn't always work out, but it really helps to recognize trouble spots and hearken back to previous events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 That lightning strike may have totaled my neighbors two cars and damaged a third. It buckled part of driveway too and went into his house destroying alarm system, cable, internet etc. Nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vortex95 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Yeah agree. Apparently a Southwest Airlines flight went through same area with a lot of turbulence too. It's almost a given for me to forecast at least moderate turbulence either on the backside or downwind of a MCS because of how much they alter the local environment. Subsidence usually on the west and northwest side of these systems as the jet impinges on the complex and has nowhere to go, but around or down because of strong updrafts. Latent heat will locally increase jet just downwind of complex too. This is what I came across concerning the hail flight encounter: "It's clear that the crew deviated southward to avoid severe convection over far northeastern Colorado that was moving eastward, into an area clear of storms when they made the turn. However, a fast-moving left-mover increased very quickly and filled-in the gap over a matter of 15 minutes or so. GLD radar indicates 3" dia. hail in the left-mover at about the time of the incident." and this note: "Radar reflectivity-based schemes for diagnosing hail frequently under-represent the hail size on left-moving storms. It's quite possible this might have been one of the root causes for this incident. In addition, the left-movers have much higher storm motions, and they may have underestimated that as well, thinking they had time to fly around it." As CoastalWx knows I say a lot to him, "you'd be surprised...(on how fast things can change in the mesoscale!") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Ohhh boo-fooking hoooo. It's been a tame summer in many places. Damn straight! boo-fooking hoo! Spent my 24 years here in marine taint. Let us enjoy a severe event lol. Golf ball sized hail in the north end. Still shaking my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Yeah I'm big on clouds and the gradients you see on water vapor. CAT is always tough. A lot of what I do is pattern recognition. Sometimes it doesn't always work out, but it really helps to recognize trouble spots and hearken back to previous events. CAT? Meow? What does that mean? EDIT: Clear air turb... What are the basic causes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 CAT? Meow? What does that mean? EDIT: Clear air turb... What are the basic causes? A lot of times a strong upper jet can cause it. The air is essentially descending in the jet, creating large areas of clear air. But the turbulence caused by the large gradients in wind speed can be quite dramatic. If you're lucky, you'll have cirrus in the area with transverse banding, hinting at the high turbulence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 A lot of times a strong upper jet can cause it. The air is essentially descending in the jet, creating large areas of clear air. But the turbulence caused by the large gradients in wind speed can be quite dramatic. If you're lucky, you'll have cirrus in the area with transverse banding, hinting at the high turbulence. Hmm..sounds like someone has an aviation focus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Hmm..sounds like someone has an aviation focus? Hey if you're going to take a focal point, might as well take a real big boy focal point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Hey if you're going to take a focal point, might as well take a real big boy focal point. True. I enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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