J.Spin

I was wondering when someone would make those first whispers of summer’s back being broken – and it makes sense it would come from one of the NNE crew. There’s no doubt that at least a minimal switch was flipped back on the 28th after that rather potent stretch of humidity subsided. When you have that elevated heat and humidity that sometimes comes around in July, it just makes it that much less pleasant to get out for non-water activities, and indeed we’d just been sticking with fairly short MTB rides hitting routes from the house for the past few weeks. That switch in the weather really made things pleasant enough that it’s felt worthwhile to get out – the boys and I had a fun ride in the MRV over the weekend, and the family hiked to The Chin yesterday. The weather has been fantastic for those sorts of activities. With the temperatures over the past few nights, not only has there been no need for fans in windows to cool things down, we’ve had to close a certain percentage of windows or else we would have overshot the cooling. As far as we’re concerned, that’s pretty convenient. It looks like we’re going to shift from 70s/50s to some 80s/60s in the coming days, so it doesn’t seem like summer’s back is seriously broken just yet, but the past week or so has definitely shown some weakening. And, even if an above average August is in the cards, we’ve already passed the climatologically hottest part of the month and the overall feel still won’t touch an above average July.

Yeah, I’m seeing some highs in the 70s/lows in the 50s for the mountain valleys – awesome late summer weather for outdoor activities. Amazingly, that’s actually in the range of average as PF noted above, and August even shaves a couple degrees off each of those.

As I was reading this, it seemed appropriate that you were frequently putting “friends” in quotes, because I’m not sure who these people are that you’re talking about. Are we talking about born Vermonters, 7th generation types, transplants from out of state to a resort area, 2nd home owners, or something else? Everyone’s definition of “friend” is different I guess, but my actual friends would already know every detail of everything you poured out so thoughtfully in that paragraph. There would actually be no need to discuss any of it or even make it known to them – just from years of knowing me, they would already know my opinion on just about all of that and could easily assume that I was taking all those actions. People that don’t already have a feel for all that stuff, or would turn a blind eye to the issue are probably more in the realm of “acquaintances” or maybe “neighbors”, but they’re definitely something else. Yeah, it’s probably semantics, but the overall concept might be one of the confounding factors related to this issue.

Hehe, LOL, you’re right in that we aren’t your typical ski family. But, we’re certainly less unique if you compare us to other ski families around here in NVT or probably even other parts of NNE. I actually brought up the season ski rental time limitation issue though because it happened to a colleague of mine at work – he was renting for the season from Bolton for his kids, and had planned to continue using the skis to ski at places like Stowe, Smugg’s, Sugarbush, Jay Peak, etc. at the end of the season. But, he unfortunately had to return the skis when Bolton closed down at the beginning of April, so that was pretty inconvenient. I’d never even thought of that sort of limitation on season rentals until he pointed that out. Also, I wasn’t sure how serious Phin was going to get with the family’s skiing now that they’d be living so deep in NNE ski country. I see now that he mentioned a couple dozen days as a rough number, and that’s actually a pretty solid season.

I agree that it could be very dicey. I would seriously encourage anybody who has even remotely thought about getting a backcountry/skinning setup to have one on hand this season. Even if the worst happens and the resorts not only shut down lift service, but somehow revert to closing resort-based uphill access again, midwinter will still offer all the usual backcountry spots. I could imagine the more formal spots like Pinkham Notch being closed again, but it would be hard to imagine the state trying to close all public lands to access. I’m not sure how they would enforce that.

Yeah, there’s no way a regular swap format can be used. I’m really hoping they can figure something out to do some sort of swap-style events. They’re just so useful, and they’re also fundraising events for a lot of schools and organizations.

Daily rentals are always a hassle, but they’re probably going to be a massive pain this coming season. Season ski package rentals for the kids are a great option for many families, since there are some excellent perks like being able to simply have things replaced if they break (within reason), or swap out skis or boots for a larger size if the child grows a bunch during the season. We never went that route though, because buying skis for our boys was better for a number of reasons: · Most places you rent from, whether from the mountain or from a local shop, have a limited rental season. You have to wait until a certain date until they start the rentals (around November, but it can vary), and there’s a date by which you have to return them (typically sometime in April). This is obviously a huge headache if you’re going to ski the full season, and our family typically skis from October through June as long as the snow is around, so that would cut off a lot of the season. · The options for rental skis are typically limited – they’ll certainly have all around carving skis, and they’ll often have a twin tip option as well if kids would like a more park/freestyle-oriented ski, but they’re not typically going to have more specialized skis like power skis, Telemark skis, AT skis, etc. · It’s really not that expensive to buy kid’s skis of you go to the ski swaps. There are tons of ski swaps each season, and the prices for kid’s skis are often very reasonable. For just a regular pair of all around carving skis, you can easily find a used pair for ~$100 or less. We would buy a pair like that for our older son, and he would use them for two years, and then our younger son would have them for two years, so we would get four years out of that $100 investment, and you’re talking $25 a season. Then after they’ve outgrown them, you can typically recoup half the money by selling them back at a swap, so in the end, the yearly cost is really minimal. How much of this you can do obviously depends on the age distribution of your kids of course, but depending on how that works out, it can actually be cheaper than a season rental. Good powder skis are harder to find at swaps, so we would only occasionally get lucky and find something, but most of the time we had to buy those new. But, we’d still get a previous year’s model, the price would be reasonable, and we’d get four years out of them and be able to get money for them in the end at a swap. For Tele (and likely AT skis as well), forget about it, we always had to buy new. Kid’s Tele skis are not all that common as it is, and in all my years I’m not sure I’ve seen any at the swaps.

Roger that – we typically call that whole area up there “Blush Hill”. That’s the name of the main road that services the area, and the name of the country club up there as well. Houses seem to top out around 1,100’ as you continue on up. In their spot, they’ll certainly get a bit of a bump in elevation up above Route 100 (that first pitch at the bottom of the road is nuts), so that will probably increase snowfall a bit. I have a cousin who lives right up in the condos near Ashford, and we’ve got friends in houses farther up the road, but I haven’t heard any specifics on snowfall differences from down in town. Based on this info, I’d say a PF-style snowfall average is still a good first guess.

Yeah, they’ll certainly average triple digits for snowfall. I’d put ~100” as the floor for the annual snowfall average, but how much above that would depend on those usual elevation and microclimate effects. If they’re at an elevation of 600’, that’s around the higher end of the “floor” around here (roughly 400’-600’), so that could give a slight bump. Going with a generic “east side” site at that elevation, one could probably go with a snowfall average like PF sees. PF is a bit higher in elevation, but something like what he sees could be a good first guess.

That’s really exciting for them – coming from Williston it’s not going to be a totally outrageous change relative to someone coming from SNE or even further south, but they’re definitely going to see more precipitation, snowfall, snowpack, snow retention, etc., vs. Williston in the CPV. Williston is a pretty popular place to live, but maybe they’re moving to be closer to Montpelier for work? They’ll have incredible access to the surrounding area in all directions as PF said, because Waterbury is the junction of three main routes around the state – you can see the access to Stowe to the north, Burlington to the west, Montpelier to the east, and it’s not labeled, but that’s the Mad River Valley to the south. On the map below with Waterbury in the center, Route 100 is the black line running north-south, I-89 is the red line running roughly east west, and Route 2 is the purplish line paralleling and mostly hidden by I-89. Them being close to the exit off I-89 (we only have one, it’s exit 10) actually describes a lot of the area, so it’ hard to get a sense for where they might be just from that. To give you a sense for where we’re located, just head west from that dot on the map for Waterbury until you get to that orange shading. That shading marks Chittenden County, and the line you see marking that change is the border between Chittenden/Washington counties, and also the border between the towns of Waterbury and Bolton. That line also marks the approximate location of the spine of the Greens. We’re located just a bit on the Waterbury side of that line, about 2 to 3 miles from the center of town.

You got me curious, so I set the date on my data entry page back to 2009 before I had joined, and it seemed like you could. I didn’t actually enter anything though, but it might be an option.

Well, Ginx’s CoCoRaHS mapping update in the August thread was quite timely with respect to our discussion here. I made the July map for VT and pasted it below. Per my previous post, I immediately noted that the 9.15” from Cabot 2.3 E wasn’t on there, however, the next highest value of 8.48” for the month from Cabot 3.9 ENE was shown. Looking at the data summary table, I suspect that with five missing entries (perhaps zeros that just weren’t touched up yet on the monthly zeroes page), Cabot 2.3 E is not hitting the 90% data completeness threshold that is indicated in the legend. I would suspect the value for that site would show up once the data are updated, but it’s good incentive to get those monthly zeroes taken care of sooner rather than later!

Thanks Ginx, fantastic update to what we can now do with displaying CoCoRaHS data – I’m putting together a July map for VT right now!

July Totals Liquid: 5.86” I see that Tamarack recently posted his monthly weather data, so it’s that time again. Total liquid for July here was actually almost an inch (0.97”) above average, making up a bit for June, which was 4.27” and nearly three inches below average. For the state as a whole, Cabot 2.3 E topped the CoCoRaHS precipitation list with 9.15” of liquid for the month. Liquid for the 2020 water year is running at 44.89”, and calendar year liquid is at 29.79”, which is 1.94” below average. So, it’s pretty much the June precipitation keeping things behind normal pace at this point.

From casual observation it’s always seemed like the ultimate process followed that of a reasonably routine, scientific calculation along lines of the following equation: (P ± X) ± M Where: P = weenie parameter of interest X = whatever nearly arbitrary value needs to be applied to fit current agenda M = factor applied by meteorologists, forecasters, or knowledgeable amateurs to attempt to correct for X and bring final value back to reality

LOL, that’s literally been on our minds a lot with the composting law going into effect. Now that we have to get more serious about it we were looking into getting bins and all sorts of details on how to manage it most effectively, and with neighbors telling us about their bear sightings, it was sounding really complicated. Then my wife spoke to one of her friends at work that essentially removed all the hassle. Her friend’s method that has been working well for years is that she simply dumps her stuff back in the woods, tosses some leaves on it, and that’s it. We picked a spot well away from the house though just in case of bear issues.

Neat data from Dendrite as always. Even a “normal” August should really feel fantastic around here after the July we had though. These past few days have felt pretty glorious, and the forecast moving into August doesn’t show signs of July-like heat and humidity so far, so hopefully we can cruise right on into typical August NNE weather. From what I’ve seen in discussions on this forum, SNE does seem to have those August “dog days” where that midsummer type combination of heat and humidity persists, but up here in the mountains, once we hit August, and especially that August 10th break point, we just never seem to return fully to that July-like punch of HHH. Personally, the three months of August, September, and October up here may be my favorite quarter of the year. Winter is amazing of course, but for me as a skier it sort of extends from November through May, and I’m not sure I could pick a specific three-month section of winter that I would call the best; each of the months has its own unique merits between the various components of snowfall, snowpack, temperatures, daylight, etc. The period starting in August is really solid though. July heat is generally done, and you go from amazing late summer weather where water sports are more of an option than a necessity, into cool fall weather and stunning foliage, and then to snow. That’s an awesome ride, and then it drops you right into the start of ski season (unless of course November is especially warm and/or dry). We have an old beech nut tree that routinely marks the transition to the start of that period by dropping its first leaves around August 1st, and it just started that process of few days ago. This year we’ve got a couple of old apple trees joining in as well, so I’m starting to get those autumn-like lines of shredded leaves after mowing the lawn. I know the old saying around here about how we have a word for summer, and they call it “July”, and it’s certainly felt like it this year. It seems that we can sometimes have a relatively cool July in which we sneak through, but we almost always get some sort of heat and/or humidity that makes the month stand out as summery. The folks in the forum often talk about their least favorite month of the year where they live, and I’m beginning to wonder if it’s July for me around here. I love getting out for water sports and into the swimming holes on the hot, humid days, but when the heat and humidity become excessive, it seems like you’re not left with much once you’re done with the water. You either want to be in the A/C, or waiting until evening to get out and get things done, and the air is still not as comfortable as you know it can be. Perhaps it was the tenor of this July that gives me that impression, or maybe as you get older you get less tolerant of excessive heat and humidity. At least I think that’s what they say here in the forum.

Thanks for the info. Our current water heater is actually propane though, so I guess the heat pump style would mean moving to electric. Apparently the tank-based propane units are already fairly efficient compared to traditional electric units, and fairly comparable to the heat pump water heaters? I’m also curious about investigating tankless options when the time comes to replace our current water heater. Apparently tankless costs a bit more to operate annually vs. the heat pump systems, but they more than make up for it by their longer service life. The idea of not having to store hot water in a tank and simply create it on demand is certainly appealing (as is not having a big tank taking up space), but we’ll ultimately have to look into the nitty-gritty of it to see if it’s worth it.

Those units seem interesting, and after looking into them, I guess they also cool the area around them as well? It sounds like that effect would be great in the basement in the summer. How have you found the temperatures to be affected in the winter months?

That’s very cool, thanks for the update Ginx. It made me check out my most recent CoCoRaHS email, which has this: Big News – The Long-Awaited CoCoRaHS Interactive Mapping System -- Coming on August 1 Some of you have been helping test our new interactive maps and have provided great help and suggestions. We will continue to make improvements after the release, but we are as ready as we can be to finally share it with everyone. I'll spill some of the beans here and tell you that one feature of the new map will allow you to view accumulated data for a custom period of your choosing. It's really neat to view totals on a map showing the last week, or month, but we did have to place limits on how much data could be compiled at once. We’ve found and fixed most bugs – and it works well when a few dozen people are generating their favorite maps. The big question is will it bog down when 10,000 of us are enjoying these new maps at the same time. We will find that out real soon, but we've definitely made sure that data entry won't be affected if the map is overwhelmed. So keep your fingers crossed, and keep your eyes peeled for the new map on August 1st.

Yeah, July certainly didn’t get it done, but maybe August will provide some redemption with more NNE-esque temperatures and dew points. The winter was actually close to the mark on the front end, with the continuous snowpack starting on November 8th down here in the valley. The back end was a little off the mark with the snowpack disappearing on April 6th, which is a week or two early, but we had the wintry weather holding on until about mid-May. I guess that later April/May period wouldn’t really qualify as “deep winter”, but it certainly helped extend the wintry feel.

Earlier I had posted my summary table of snow stats for our site updated with the data for the 2019-2020 winter season, but I’ve had time to enter many of the other snow stats I follow, so I’ve got those listed below. I’ve highlighted in green any record values that were added to the data set this season, with a notable one being our earliest ever start of the continuous winter snowpack here on November 8th. The 7.1” storm that began on November 7th created a number of firsts in the snowfall department. Although we get some accumulating October storms almost every year at our site, we’ve really never had a large one (or even one greater than 2 inches) down at this elevation in the time we’ve lived here, so those earlier storm records were ripe for the picking. The final value of note was at the other end of the season, where we had the snowiest May in our records. Total season snowfall: 142.1” Season snowfall rank: 11th out of 14 October snowfall: 0.0” November snowfall: 17.8” December snowfall: 30.0” January snowfall: 34.4” February snowfall: 37.2” March snowfall: 12.9” April snowfall: 4.1” May snowfall: 5.7” (HIGHEST) First frozen precipitation: Nov 3rd First accumulating snowfall: Nov 3rd First ≥1" snowfall: Nov 8th First ≥2" snowfall: Nov 8th (EARLIEST) First ≥3" snowfall: Nov 8th (EARLIEST) First ≥4" snowfall: Nov 8th (EARLIEST) First ≥6" snowfall: Nov 8th (EARLIEST) First ≥8" snowfall: Dec 7th First ≥10" snowfall: Jan 16th First ≥12" snowfall: Feb 7th Largest snowstorm: 17.0” Starting date of largest snowstorm: Feb 6th Number of storms: 55 Number of ≥1” storms: 31 Number of ≥2” storms: 20 Number of ≥3” storms: 15 Number of ≥4” storms: 13 Number of ≥6” storms: 7 Number of ≥8” storms: 5 Number of ≥10” storms: 3 Number of ≥12” storms: 1 Number of ≥15” storms: 1 Number of ≥18” storms: 0 Number of ≥20” storms: 0 Number of ≥24” storms: 0 Average inches of snowfall per storm: 2.6 Days with trace snowfall or greater: 107 Total L.E. during accumulating snowfall season: 24.34” Snow/Sleet L.E. during accumulating snowfall season: 10.89” Total Snow/Total Water (Snow/Water Ratio): 5.84 Average water content of all precipitation: 17.1% Total Snow/Snow+Sleet L.E. (Snow/Water Ratio): 13.05 Average water content of snow/sleet: 7.7% Latest accumulating snowfall: May 12th Latest frozen precipitation: May 12th Days in yard snowfall season: 191 Start of continuous snowpack: Nov 8th (EARLIEST) Days with >0" snowpack: 158 Days with ≥1" snowpack: 129 Days with ≥6" snowpack: 64 Days with ≥12" snowpack: 24 Days with ≥24" snowpack: 0 Days with ≥36" snowpack: 0 Max snow depth: 21.0” Date of max snow depth: Feb 8th Snow depth days: 914.0 Last day of continuous snow at stake: Mar 18th Last day of continuous snow in yard: Apr 6th Days with continuous snow at stake: 132 Days with continuous snow in yard: 151

I’ve never quite understood that either – beyond adulthood, shouldn’t the body be less able to handle environmental extremes as one advances in age? My parents are older than you, and they purposefully don’t stay down in Florida during the summer - unless you’re constantly in the water or A/C, the combination of heat and humidity down there is really tough on the body. The uncomfortable feeling that people get as heat index values rise is the body indicating that the conditions are not optimal, and the NWS literally issues heat advisories because of the potential effects of elevated heat index values.

Yeah, it would really be easy to get by with just a dehumidifier around here in the mountains where summer temperatures aren’t typically outrageous. Just take that humidity down to the 50% range like you say, and the air is totally comfortable. The first few years that we lived in this house I didn’t have a dehumidifier in the basement, and then my parents were getting rid of an old one they had, so I started using it to keep that basement humidity down in the summer. It was only then that I really noticed how important it is to have that dehumidification in the basement during the humid months to minimize corrosion on metal parts. Even though it wasn’t necessarily excessive yet, all those cold water pipes, valves, and other equipment that sweat when the moisture levels rise will really take on a lot more tarnish and corrosion if you don’t regulate the humidity. Dehumidifying also basically wipes out any of that musty basement odor, so there’s so much that’s positive with respect to keeping things dry down there that I’d never go back. Thankfully, it only seems like we need it about three months of the year or so – during the rest of the year the humidity level is low enough on its own that the dehumidifier doesn’t run. We don’t have any sort of sump in the basement, so for the first season or two we were just emptying the dehumidifier collection bucket when it filled. Then at some point my dad pointed out that we could just use the condensate pump on our furnace to empty it out automatically (these pumps typically have extra input holes for this sort of thing), and that has been amazing. We don’t really have to think about it now, and it just runs automatically – until it dies of course. Dehumidifiers only seem to last so long before something goes, and this spring I had to do a couple weeks of troubleshooting before I finally diagnosed that our unit was low on refrigerant. Thankfully Frigidaire has a five-year warranty on that issue so they just sent us a new one. We would have bought a new one if we had to though – this has definitely not been the summer to go without a dehumidifier down there.

Oh, I saw you talk about those overnight lows in one of the discussions, but I figured the nighttime temperatures around 80 F were just a Champlain Valley thing! We must have either been protected/decoupled here, or the temperature spike was so brief before the rains came that I slept right through it. The temperatures had dropped to near 70 F when I was heading to bed, and I figured we were pretty safe. I think the temperature was a couple degrees higher when I got up, but it wasn’t too early and I figured it was just the day starting to warm. No question about that though, if I’d seen temperatures up near 80 F during the overnight that would easily seal the deal on using the A/C.