Snowstorms

07-08 was a good redemption winter after 06-07. Hoping it's colder than 2007-08 though. There are some impressive cold Nina winters following Nino's. Hoping for a similar outcome this year. Although compared to 06-07, we ended last season with 57".

Was hot garbage up this way too. Only 32". Only thing impressive about that winter was the Feb cold snap.

There's a good chance this year could be one of the weakest flu seasons on record, in part thanks to Covid. I think another lockdown is quite possible but not to the extent we experienced earlier this year. I think many countries including USA are better managing the situation now compared to Mar/Apr. If anything they might close down certain restaurants, bars and other more crowded indoor spaces to limit the spread. At this point until we have a worldwide vaccine, no lockdown or restrictive measures will curb the spread. Where is the hot spot right now in the USA?

1970-71 was another great winter up this way. 71.0" which is 25" above our seasonal average. DJFM all featured below normal temps. 1970-71 La Nina came after two consecutive Nino's (1968-70), similar to this year.

95-96..started great (Nov/Dec). Jan/Feb were just cold and dry and frankly boring. Mar was great and April too. Overall, we finished above avg (59.2") and 2.4 degrees below avg. 05-06..started great (Nov/Dec). Rest of the winter was trash. Mild and snowless. If I'm not mistaken, it's top 10 or top 15 least snowiest winter on record at YYZ. Finished the season with 34". 07-08.. best winter ever. Every month was epic. Finished the season with 92". Another station in the city finished with 99". Double our seasonal avg.

700 new cases today in Ontario setting a new single-day high record. 60% of them were in Toronto. After spending most of the summer with <100 cases per day, we've been rising exponentially since late August. Ironically, the province reopened Casino's today. Casinos in Ontario are run by the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation which is a crown corporation owned by the Government. Schools have also resumed, and we've had dozens of cases linked to various schools. I feel as though a second lockdown is coming and could be far worse than anything we experienced back in Spring.

Going through this thread, I did not know how hard it is for most of the Mid Atl. to get some decent snow. Granted I would love to experience a blizzard like Jan 2016, Dec 2010 or Feb 2010. We don't get storms like that up this way. It's crazy how many variables need to come together for you guys to get even half decent snow. Up here we prefer La Nina's > El Nino's but that doesn't mean El Nino's are bad either. For example, our snowiest Nov is an El Nino (1940), our snowiest Dec is an El Nino (1951) and our 2nd snowiest Jan is also an El Nino (1966). Our top 2 coldest winters ever (DJF) are also El Nino's (1976-77 and 1969-70). However, our top 3 snowiest winters on record are La Nina's (1937-38, 1949-50 and 2007-08). Records go back to 1937 at the airport. But believe it or not our least snowiest winter on record is a La Nina (2011-12). 2009-10, the golden winter for Mid Atl., ended up as the 2nd least snowiest winter on record here. Two different ENSOs but with the same outcome. We can do pretty good here sometimes regardless of ENSO state. Even 1995-96 we nickeled and dimed our way up to 59" (14" above avg).

Persistent cloud cover. With that -NAO block building up near Newfoundland were likely going to see some lake effect rain showers and constant clipper activity for the next week or so. The GFS stalls the low in Hudson Bay for a few days too. It'll be cool and wet regardless. Our best chance for widespread frost will likely be next weekend.

There was one on Lake Huron back in 1996. Nothing since then or before.

May 2020 was the snowiest on record here, but November wasn't even top 10. We lucked out. Except for Mar/Apr, we were average to above average every month snow wise. Jan-Feb 2019 was awesome. We got 42" in those 2 months. If I had to choose between the last two winters and 2004-05, I'd pick 2004-05. Had that nice storm right before Christmas and a few good storms in Jan and Feb 05. El Nino's up this way compared to Detroit are usually half and half, some good and some bad. For example 2006-07, 2009-10 and 2015-16 were sub 30" winters. But 2004-05 was an El Nino winter coming off a warm neutral and preceding Nino before that. So different oceanic states compared to this year.

Makes sense. Most of Buffalo's lake effect snow comes from streamers off Lake Erie. Different story further north towards Rochester and Syracuse. La Nina Octobers are typically warmer than normal, so we'll see if that holds serve for this year.

Could mean a big LES season for you guys if Nov/Dec end up below normal. Was by Lake Ontario a week ago and the water was quite warm still.

2004-05 had several cold snaps too. Most of Jan 2005 was pretty cold. Last winter was devoid of any cold. We also got 65" locally.

Wouldn't the warm pool in the Pacific encourage more ridging towards the Aleutians and even further east towards the EPO domain? A -PDO combined with a Nina would allow for more ridging across the Aleutians and Alaska, no? 2008-09 had an impressive North Pacific ridge that was poleward. Dec 08-Jan 09 wasn't crazy cold in the east, but it was persistent nonetheless. Locally we only had 2 days above freezing in Jan 09.

Although 2000-01 was front loaded, we got two decent storms in FM. Feb 2001 we got ~10" of snow and ice pellets followed by an inch of rain. And in March 2001 we got another 10" storm. No real arctic air after December either. To be honest, aside from Jan 1999, Jan 2000 cold outbreak and Dec 2000, we saw 5 crappy winters in a row (1997-2002). Nothing special happened in those 6 years expect for those select few months lol. Now to be fair I was a little kid at the time but still.

We tried that last winter. Wasn't pretty.

Was a second year Nina though. I think 2007-08 seems like a better analog. It also came off a weak Nino and was the first -PDO/La Nina winter since 1999-2000. Current subsurface anomalies are quite similar to 2007 as well.

We're too far south of Lake Huron and Georgian Bay to get any lake effect snow other than occasional dustings to 2". And on-top of that, an E or SE wind off Lake Ontario is even rarer. When storms move up the Apps, unless they track just south of Lake Erie, we never cash in. These storms are usually golden for you guys in New England. Our geographic location sucks. Too far west of the Atlantic and too far north of the Gulf to get any real moisture laden storms. We were less than 100 miles away from some of those big March 2018 storms that slam dunked NNE. 95% of our snowfall every winter is synoptic.

The 1940s were kickass here in Toronto. We averaged ~55" that decade which is 10" above our seasonal average. A couple winters that really stand out; 1940-41: 64.3" 1942-43: 72.6" 1944-45: 97.6" << YYZ lowballed this winter lol 1946-47: 76.7" 1949-50: 77.3" That 1944-45 winter featured a 26" storm which is a top 5 storm. Just based on analytics, I wouldn't mind a repeat of the 1940s. Only two winters that entire decade were duds.

Latest MEI value is -1.0, which is the same as the previous bi-monthly value. Closest resemblance to this year based solely on the MEI value is 2007. The JA MEI value was already -2.4 back in 2010 as the Nina peaked in the Fall as I noted in my previous post. 1998-99 Nina isn't the greatest analog in my opinion as it came off the heels of a very strong El Nino and were much colder than 1995-96.

Subsurface anomalies are still relatively cold across much of the ENSO regions with the exception of Nino 4 as you mentioned. However, one thing to keep in mind is that 2007 had similar subsurface anomalies across far western ENSO regions to date. We should see continued trade winds blowing over the ENSO regions with another strong easterly burst coming next week. We'll see what impact that has, but regardless the SOI is now in Nina territory. The MJO is expected to remain weak/inactive as per models so this La Nina will continue to strengthen over the next few weeks. As it stands right now, I suspect this Nina will peak in the winter as did 2007.

I agree. It was the same up here as well. Expect for Feb 08, we didn't really retain much snow-cover. But man did it ever snow. I'll never forget the Dec 07 and March 08 winter storms. Dec 07 dropped 12-14" across the area and the March 08 dropped 15-18" across the area. I think that's one storm the Ohio Valley will never forget. 08-09 was also another great winter. Two back to back awesome winters.

Looking at just the weekly ENSO values and subsurface anomalies, this years La Nina is on par with 2007. 2010 was already a moderate to strong La Nina by this time and it peaked early. Models seem to be peaking this years La Nina in the winter, similar to 2007. The PDO has gone negative again. A -PDO may help drive more ridging around the Aleutians, which is a bit to far west of the EPO domain, but if at times that ridge can push eastward we can get some nice decent cold shots our way. Otherwise, most of the real arctic air would be confined over the Plains/Prairies. As you said, I like the idea of our sub-forum being the battle ground between cold and warm. I'd expect an earlier start which is more typical with Nina's. I do think this winter will end up colder than 2007-08 though.

Although 44-45 and 45-46 had exceptionally warm Marches, DJF were cold. Jan 1945 in particular. As you can see, the 1900's, 1910's, 1920's and again the 1960's, 1970's and 1980's were exceptionally cooler than any of the last three decades in all three cities you provided. Some of the warm winters we saw in these last few decades weren't just "warm" but were exceptionally above normal. Winters like 1997-98, 1998-99, 2001-02 , 2011-12 and 2015-16 were extremely warm winters nationwide. So there's been a definite warming trend in the last 100+ years.

It got down to -16F at YYZ and nearly -20F in surrounding suburbs in Toronto for one night. Believe it or not, it was the coldest low temp in Toronto since Jan 94. On a side note, Jan 94 was just ridiculous. YYZ got down to -24F and surrounding suburbs got down to -30F. Feb 2015 came close but only got down to -14F. Dec 2017 and Jan 2018 were impressive as well. Not sure how cold Detroit got during that cold snap.