GaWx

I’m looking forward to a NN averaged week next week which should include some BN (assuming it verifies), with its largely Canadian airmass influenced chilliness…great for walking…always welcomed! The upcoming mid-week to weekend of semi-torching to torching won’t be too fun for that .

OND RONI -0.92 OND ONI -0.55 So, OND RONI was 0.37 lower than OND ONI. That difference was a similar 0.35 for SON meaning the difference has been pretty steady for awhile.

Ji/Mitch I agree that folks are making too big of a deal about phase 6 and BAMwx’s map is much too cold as I said. My own research looked at phase 6 including phase 6 inside the circle and it was as I said not nearly as cold as that BAMwx’s map for all cases averaged out (-2 at GSP vs BAM’s -6 to -7). Based on the latest ext GEFS, phase 6 is currently forecasted to last 9 days (14th-22nd) while it lasts 7 days on the ext EPS (14th-20th). So, both have 7 days (14th-20th) in phase 6. But of course they’ll likely not verify exactly and may end up not close. And even if close, the variance of temperatures for Jan La Niña phase 6 is large. @mitchnick

Taking what Webb said and looking ahead to where the Feb MJO may start (fwiw since that’s in the low skill 4 week away period and the models recently have done poorly much earlier than that), the latest forecasts of the extendeds look seemingly favorable for early Feb as they’re showing it going into phase 8 then: coldest Feb phases are 8-1-2-3 1/3 ext GEFS: 1/3 ext EPS:

Taking what Webb said and looking ahead to where the Feb MJO may start (fwiw since that’s in the low skill 4 week away period and the models recently have done poorly much earlier than that), the latest forecasts of the extendeds look seemingly favorable for early Feb as they’re showing it going into phase 8 then: coldest Feb phases are 8-1-2-3 1/3 ext GEFS: 1/3 ext EPS:

Ji, With it still being a solid La Niña on a RONI basis (was still -1.0 in Dec and is only slowly warming), wouldn’t a weak southern stream be favored much of the winter?

As I said, I think BAMwx is significantly too cold in the means (which is what their map is supposed to represent). That pink area of -6 to -7 in the SE is, in reality (based on actual data that I analyzed) more like -2 along with much variation. And I didn’t analyze it for the entire E half of the US, which would take too long. If I get time, I could add a city like Baltimore, however, just to get an idea for this forum’s area.

Again to make sure folks keep track of what Webb actually said, he never said “Modoki El Niño forcing”. He said this: “It’s really interesting to see that we have already pushed the Pacific mean state to something in between La Nina & a modoki/Central Pacific El Niño.” So, in between La Niña and Modoki El Niño is exactly what he referred to. Per his research, a Feb in that group tended to be cold. By the way, Dec came in at -0.98 on a RONI basis and the latest BoM still has Feb down to -0.6. So, Feb will still be La Niña in that respect, which I respect.

This is BAMwx’s image: see lower right…that coldest area over the SE is ~-6 to -7 F for Jan -AAM phase 6s: The following are results of my research, which looked at GSP, a station in that coldest (pink) area, during La Niña Jans on that lower right map: Niña Year….# phase 6 days in Jan…avg anomaly 1975…3…-8 M 1976…13…-9 W-S 1989…3…+8 M 1999…3…+2 M 2000…3…-4 W 2006…6…+3 S 2008…3…+8 S 2009…6…+1 W-M 2011…12…-7 W-S 2012…19…+1 W-S 2017…2…0 W 2018…3…-2 S 2021…8…-1 M-S 2022…4…-9 W 2025…2…-5 W W weak (mainly in or near circle), M mod., S strong 91 total days (big sample) So, not surprisingly, there’s a wide spread. But the overall avg temp. anomaly at GSP during La Niña Jan phase 6s over the last 50 years did avg out to -2 F, a bit counterintuitive. So, this tells me two things: - Any possible phase 6 this month won’t necessarily favor mild in the E US though the spread is wide and it could end up that way - BAMwx’s -6 to -7 area in the SE and that map in general is significantly too cold for La Niña Jan phase 6. Only 6 of the 15 periods (40%) were about as cold as BAMwx. But the 40% does show a -6 to -7ish phase 6 this month would be doable.

1. He’s a well educated and well respected pro-met who typically backs up his posts with hard data. So, one wouldn’t think he’d risk his reputation by being a baseless weenie. 2. Just to clarify, in nothing that I quoted did Eric explicitly say he expects to go into a “Modoki El Niño pattern”. He said: “we have already pushed the Pacific mean state to something in between La Nina & a modoki/Central Pacific El Niño.” Is that wrong? 3. What’s Roundy saying? 4. Otherwise, are there any other Mets making a call for Feb?

Thanks, snowman. Well, fortunately he’s a well respected pro-met who constantly backs up his posts with hard data. So, he’d know what he’s talking about and thus he has a ton of followers. He didn’t say anything about March, however. Just Feb. That being said, is he near perfect? Of course not as he’s had his share of busts. But who hasn’t? So, his and other takes are all we have right now to go off of this early from pros. I wouldn’t bet anywhere near the farm on anyone this far out, but this is very encouraging to read. Also, Ray is on a similar page. I don’t recall any pro met being down on Feb recently. But I could have missed somebody. Speaking of other takes, has the well respected Paul Roundy said anything definitive about Feb yet? If so, please post it. TIA. Edit: This may be related to Webb’s optimism. Look at the OHC sharp warming: And look at the rising AAM fcast from yesterday’s CFS:

Coldest Jan 7th+ for Chicago lows on GEFS runs thru today’s 18Z:1/2 12Z +251/3 0Z +256Z +2112Z +1918Z +15 So, the GEFS mean coldest low at Chicago on the 18Z is a whopping 10 F colder than it was just 18 hours ago and is actually now slightly colder than the 12Z EPS’ 17. The normal Chicago low is for then ~18. So, the source for potential cold in the SE has gotten sig. colder. That’s the point of following and posting these. This colder 18Z run was largely related to a stronger -WPO, -EPO, and -AO vs the 12Z.

For those who are hoping for a cold Feb in the SE US, Eric Webb just a little while ago posted these increasingly positive takes: “It’s really interesting to see that we have already pushed the Pacific mean state to something in between La Nina & a modoki/Central Pacific El Niño. Notice the recurrent appearance of westerly wind anomalies over the Western Pacific (warm colors). Unlike most Nina winters that usually end up being very mild in February, seeing this change in the base state already occurring tells me that this winter has a few tricks up its sleeves.” ———— “Fwiw, I separated winters that preceded cool ENSO (cold neutral or Nina) >> El Niño transition by “cold” and “warm” Februarys on the East Coast and looked at their OLR/convective anomalies in the Tropical Pacific IMHO, given how much the Warm Pool has already advanced eastward, this year is leaning towards the “cold” February group with more convective activity or -OLR anomalies (cool colors) over the tropical West Pacific and tropical North Pacific, with a slightly weaker and eastward shifted area of +OLRa (decreased cloudiness, warm colors) near the International Dateline.” ————— “IMHO, we have opened the door to the possibility of 2014 style Feb this year with how the low frequency state is evolving in the Pacific.”

For those who are hoping for a cold Feb in the E US, Eric Webb just a little while ago posted these increasingly positive takes: “It’s really interesting to see that we have already pushed the Pacific mean state to something in between La Nina & a modoki/Central Pacific El Niño. Notice the recurrent appearance of westerly wind anomalies over the Western Pacific (warm colors). Unlike most Nina winters that usually end up being very mild in February, seeing this change in the base state already occurring tells me that this winter has a few tricks up its sleeves.” ———— “Fwiw, I separated winters that preceded cool ENSO (cold neutral or Nina) >> El Niño transition by “cold” and “warm” Februarys on the East Coast and looked at their OLR/convective anomalies in the Tropical Pacific IMHO, given how much the Warm Pool has already advanced eastward, this year is leaning towards the “cold” February group with more convective activity or -OLR anomalies (cool colors) over the tropical West Pacific and tropical North Pacific, with a slightly weaker and eastward shifted area of +OLRa (decreased cloudiness, warm colors) near the International Dateline.” ————— “IMHO, we have opened the door to the possibility of 2014 style Feb this year with how the low frequency state is evolving in the Pacific.”