donsutherland1

I don't know the internal logistics.

That kind of defeats the purpose of the flights. That means the 12z model cycle would be ingesting 12z data and a small sample of data that was collected at 0z.

For reference concerning snow-liquid ratios with storms that had 1"-2" QPF, as currently shown on the NBM: So, assuming a ratio of 11:1-13:1 during the height of the storm (0.50"-0.75" QPF), NYC seems in very good shape to see at least 6" of snow and well-positioned for even higher amounts, even if sleet mixes in or a transition to sleet occurs. This storm remains on track to be the biggest storm New York City has seen in nearly 4-5 years.

Setting aside specific snowfall amounts, the 1/22 0z NBM showed a snow-liquid ratio of 16.6 for New York City while the 1/22 12z NBM showed 14.1. With an estimated 1.00" or more QPF ( 12z NBM), the actual ratios will be lower. Moreover, the impact of a closed 700 mb low over the Great Lakes Region will also bring about some warming aloft, likely leading to a mix or change to sleet in New York City and its nearby suburbs. Some statistics for storms with QPF of 1.00" or more: During the height of the storm, peak ratios will probably be 11:1-13:1. Soundings will be crucial once the event draws closer. Assuming 0.50"-0.75" of liquid during that period, one is probably talking about 5.5" to almost 10" of snow. Thus, it seems right now that a 6"+ snowfall in New York City is a good bet with higher amounts possible. Areas to the north and west of NYC (Morristown, Allentown, Middletown, etc.) could have higher snowfall amounts (better ratios and reduced risk of mixing) despite somewhat lower QPF figures. The 12z NAM's soundings could provide some early insight into the push of warm air. That's one area where the model actually does quite well.

I don't think anyone outside of NCEP can answer that, as one has no comparison to a control case (the model solutions without the additional data). Another flight is scheduled for 1/23 0z. 000 NOUS42 KNHC 211739 REPRPD WEATHER RECONNAISSANCE FLIGHTS CARCAH, NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER, MIAMI, FL. 1240 PM EST WED 21 JANUARY 2026 SUBJECT: WINTER SEASON PLAN OF THE DAY (WSPOD) VALID 22/1100Z TO 23/1100Z JANUARY 2026 WSPOD NUMBER.....25-052 CORRECTION I. ATLANTIC REQUIREMENTS 1. FLIGHT ONE - NOAA 49 A. 23/0000Z B. NOAA9 03WSA TRACK66 C. 22/2015Z D. 10 DROPS AS PUBLISHED ON TRACK BEGINNING WITH DROP POINT 3 AND ENDING WITH DROP POINT 2. E. AS HIGH AS POSSIBLE/ 22/2030Z TO 23/0230Z. 2. OUTLOOK FOR SUCCEEDING DAY: POSSIBLE MISSION ALONG TRACK 66 FOR 24/0000Z. II. PACIFIC REQUIREMENTS 1. FLIGHT ONE - TEAL 75 A. 23/0000Z B. AFXXX 12WSE IOP11 C. 22/1830Z D. 25 DROPS APPROXIMATELY 60 NM APART WITHIN AN AREA BOUNDED BY: 35.0N 130.0W, 35.0N 110.0W, 15.0N 110.0W, AND 15.0N 130.0W E. AS HIGH AS POSSIBLE/ 22/2030Z TO 23/0230Z 2. SUCCEEDING DAY OUTLOOK: A USAF WC-130J AIRCRAFT MAY FLY AN ATMOSPHERIC RIVERS MISSIONS OVER THE EASTERN PACIFIC FOR THE 24/0000Z SYNOPTIC TIME. 3. ADDITIONAL DAY OUTLOOK: TWO USAF WC-130J AIRCRAFT MAY FLY ATMOSPHERIC RIVERS MISSIONS OVER THE CENTRAL AND EASTERN PACIFIC FOR THE 25/0000Z SYNOPTIC TIME.

It's my understanding that all the global models and NAM got it. The recon data is pulled into the 4dVAR (GGEM, ECMWF, UKMET, ICON) and FV3 (American models) initialization packages.

It can, but not always.

It’s usually #2 and sometimes #3 in verification.

No. We are in Phase 6.

Nice improvement on the 0z Icon vs. the 18z run for the NYC area and NJ. 0z: 18z:

Yes. For example, on February 12, 2006, 24.1" snow fell with 1.66" precipitation (14.5:1).

Yes. Lake effect snow has very high ratios, because the air mass moving across the lakes is often both frigid.

In general, higher QPF events have lower ratios. Warmer air holds more moisture. Warmer air can result in less favorable snow growth in the atmosphere, riming, etc.

I believe both the December 26-27, and January 1st events were clippers.

It's my understanding that the data should be captured in tonight's 0z model cycle.

Both were clippers, if I recall correctly. 2004 event: 30-19 2005 event: 26-9

For reference: Since 2000, there have been only two days with 4" or more snow and a 20:1 or above snow-liquid ratio in New York City: January 28, 2004 4.3" snow/0.18" precipitation (the snow-liquid ratio for the entire January 27-28, 2004 storm was just below 16:1 with 10.3" snow and 0.65" precipitation) January 23, 2005 5.3" snow/0.25" precipitation

Neither Cobb05 nor Cobb11 on Bufkit show ratios of 20:1. At the height of the storm, the 1/22 0z NBM shows approximately 15:1 ratios. They later fall below 10:1.

Two maps while we wait for the 0z cycle to kick off: Threat of Heavy Snow: Probability of a Major Winter Storm Impact: It should be noted that within the next day or two, model skill in handling synoptic details will improve markedly over the current lead time. That process could accelerate somewhat with tonight's reconnaissance flight.

The last time New York City saw a 6" or greater snowfall was January 28-29, 2022 when 8.3" fell. Its last 10" or above snowfall occurred during January 31-February 3, 2021 when 17.4" accumulated.

The March 2001 nightmare. Some members probably have no recollection. Others might not have been born yet. AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY 242 AM EST SAT MAR 3 2001 WL GO AHD AND ISSUE WSW FOR ENTIRE FA FOR 3D PD. AVN/ECMWF CONSISTANT AND SHOWG MAJOR LO PRES EFFECTG FA SUN AFTN THRU AT LEAST TUE MRNG. THINKG IN XS OF A FT OF SNW...ALNG WITH 25 TO 30 MPH WNDS...IE NR BLIZZARD LIKE CONDITIONS...SUN NGT THRU TUE MRNG. THIS HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE THE STRNGST STM SINCE THE JAN 96 BLIZZARD. THE ETA AND NGM HAVE COME OVR TO THE AVN/ECMWF SOLN AS WELL AS THE NOGAPS. THE CANADIAN AND UKMET STILL SHOWG A MORE PROGRESSIVE SYSTEM. BUT IF THE SYSTEM GOES VERTICAL...AS IT SEEMS IT WL NOW...IT WL STALL BTWN DELMARVA AND CAPE COD...AND CUD HAMMER US THRU TUE MRNG. AM CONFIDENT ENUF THAT WE WILL GET SOMETHING THUS WL GO AHD AND PULL THE TRIGGR ON THE WSW. ON THE MARINE...THINKG WE CUD GET CSTL FLOODG PROBLMS AT TIMES OF HI TIDE...BEGNG SUN NGT. THATS STILL 4TH PD...AND WL NOT ISSUE A CSTL FLD WATCH ATTM. BUT ONE WL PROBLY BE ISSUED THIS AFTNS PCKG. WRKZFP IN AWIPS BY 3.5 AM. ZNS WIBIS BTW 4 AND 4.5 AM. ON THE MARINE...WL CONTINUE MENTION OF GLS SUN NGT ON. PROBLY BE UP TO SCA SUN AFTN. AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY 230 PM EST SAT MAR 3 2001 DISC: SNOW DEVLPNG DURING SUN AFTN AND WL GET HVY FROM SUN NIGHT THRU MON AND BEYOND. WL ISSUE A CSTL FLD WATCH WITH THIS PACKAGE. WILL HOLD OFF AN GO WITH THE WINTER STORM WATCH FOR NOW. EVE/MID CREW WILL HAVE TO UP TO A WARNING. ONLY PROBLEM WITH FCST IS...WL OUR ERN L.I. ZONES MIX WITH SOME SLEET AT TIMES. FOR NOW DID MENTION THE THE MIX COMING IN DURING SUNDAY NIGHT. AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY 220 AM EST SUN MAR 4 2001 CURRENT MDLS PUSHG A BIT WRMR BDLRY AIR INTO FA ON MON. EVEN SO DOES NOT CHG MY THINKG ON PTYPE. IT WL BE SNW...WET SNW...PERHAPS MIXG WITH A BIT OF SLEET DURG THE DAY MON. LO MOVES OFF DELMARVA MON MRNG...IT GOES AS FAR N AS ITS GOING TO BTW 00Z-06Z TUE. THN RETROGRADES SWD TUE MRNG. THEN BEGINS MOVG EWD TUE AFTN. THINKG SNW TAPERS OFF TO SHSN BEFORE ENDG LATE MRNG/ERLY AFTN TUE. THINKG IT WL BE A WET SNW...PEHAPS A 5 TO 1 RATIO CSTS AND 1 TO 8 INLND. EVEN SO WITH 2 PLUS INCHES OF LIQ EQV...TRANSLATES TO 10 TO 18 IN. PLACES INLND WL SEE 2 PLUS FT OF SNW. THINKG THAT ANY WARMG WL BE OFFSET BY EVAP COOLG. AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY 940 AM EST SUN MAR 4 2001 CURRENT MDLS PUSHG A BIT WRMR BDLRY AIR INTO FA ON MON. EVEN SO DOES NOT CHG MY THINKG ON PTYPE. IT WL BE WET SNW...BCMG SLEET MON NGT IN STG ERLY WND. LO MOVES OFF DELMARVA MON MRNG...IT GOES AS FAR N AS ITS GOING TO BTW 00Z-06Z TUE. THN RETROGRADES SWD TUE MRNG. THEN BEGINS MOVG EWD TUE AFTN. THINKG SNW TAPERS OFF TO SHSN BEFORE ENDG LATE MRNG/ERLY AFTN TUE. PREV FCST LOOKS GOOD INCLUDING TOTAL SNWFALL SO LITTLE IF ANY CHGS FORESEEN AT THIS TIME. BIG QUESTION REMAINS ON JUST HOW MILD COASTAL LOCATIONS WILL BECOME AND THUS HOW MUCH SNOWFALL AMTS WILL BE HELD DOWN. AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY 300 AM EST MON MAR 5 2001 PRETTY GOOD AGREEMENT THIS MDL RUN BTN ETA AND AVN...BOTH ALF AND AT SFC. SFC LO CNTR NR THE VA CST TO MOV SLOLY NE TDY AND TNGT...GETTING ABREAST OF THE FCST AREA AFT MIDN...THEN RETROGRADING AND ESSENTIALLY DOING A LOOP TO THE SW TUE BFR HEADING OUT TO SEA TUE NGT AND WED. PCPN HAS BEEN SLO TO GET GOING AS THE LO BCMS MORE ORGANIZED. SOME WRMR AIR WORKING IN ALF HAS RESULTED IN SLEET AND FRZG RAIN MXG IN WITH THE LGT SNW THUS FAR...SPCLY NR THE CST. HWVR AS THE LO CNTR MOVS FTHR OFF THE CST THIS MRNG THEN TURNS NE THIS AFTN...DRAWING COLDER AIR BCK IN...THE MXD PCPN WL CHG TO SNW THRUOUT THE RGN. AT THIS POINT WL STICK WITH THE CURRENT FCST OF 8 TO 14 INCHES OF SNW NR THE CST AND 1 TO 2 FT INLD. HWVR WITH THE LO CNTR DVLPG A BIT TOO FAR N...AND EVENTUALLY RMNG NR OUR AREA FOR A GOOD PART OF THE EVENT...AM THINKING THAT IF A CHG NEEDS TO BE MADE AS THE DAY PROGRESSES IT WOULD BE TO REDUCE THE TOTALS A BIT...SPCLY NR THE CST...UNLESS WE PICK UP A LOT OF SNW ON THE BCKSIDE. BUT WITH THE UNCERTAINTIES IN THE LENGTH OF TIME IT WL SNW...WL NOT TAMPER WITH THE AMTS NOW. AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY 1005 AM EST MON MAR 5 2001 WILL UPDATE ZONES ASAP. LARGE WARM LAYER AS SEEN ON MORNING SOUNDING. TEMPS AT OR ABOVE FREEZING RIGHT NEAR THE COAST...SO AM LOOKING AT RAIN FOR A PART OF THIS AFTERNOON. SLEET EVEN BEING REPORTED WELL INLAND. WILL LOWER OR DROP ANY SNOWFALL ACCUM FOR THIS AFTERNOON. DO HAVE A CONCERN ON NEW FORECAST PATH OF SURFACE LOW...BUT MORE ON THAT LATER. AM CONCERNED ABOUT SIGNIFICANT QPFS REMAINING JUST TO OUR NORTH ON WRAP AROUND AND IN BANDS AS LOW MOVES VERY CLOSE. AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY 235 PM EST MON MAR 5 2001 WESTERN SECTIONS (INCLUDING NYC) STARTING TO CHANGE OVER TO SNOW AS UPPER LOW APPROACHES. HEAVIEST PRECIP NOW OVER EASTERN ZONES. MODELS SIMILAR WITH POSITIONING OF LOW THROUGH TONIGHT...THEN SOME DIFFERENCES TUESDAY. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT ETA BRINGS THE MAJORITY OF THE QPF TO THE NORTH OF THE LOW...WHICH CORRESPONDS TO JUST NORTH OF OUR CWA. THE SFC LOW MOVES VERY CLOSE TO LI...WHICH RESULTS IN TOO MUCH DRY AIR ALOFT IN THE MID AND UPPER LAYERS FOR ANY HEAVIER QPF AMOUNTS. I LIKE THE AVN LOOK BETTER AS WRAP AROUND AND PLENTY OF UVM OCCURS FROM NE TO SW FROM ROUGHLY BOS VCNTY INTO SOUTHERN CT. THIS OCCURS THROUGH THE DAY TUESDAY...THEN CATEGORICAL SNOW CONTINUES TUESDAY NIGHT BUT LIGHTENS UP AS UPPER SUPPORT AND SFC LOW PULLS FINALLY TO THE EAST. IN THE SHORT TERM...18Z SOUNDING SHOWS TOO MUCH WARM AIR AROUND H8 TO OVERCOME...EVEN WITH HEAVY PRECIP APPROACHING. DYNAMIC COOLING WILL NOT OVERCOME THIS WARM LAYER FOR LATE THIS AFTERNOON ACROSS EASTERN SECTIONS. FURTHER WEST...ANY MIXTURE SHOULD CHANGE TO ALL SNOW QUICKLY BEFORE 00Z. EAST ZONES WILL TAKE A LITTLE LONGER. AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY 735 PM EST MON MAR 5 2001 SHORT TERM DISC: AREAL COVERAGE AND INTENSITY OF PRECIPITATION HAS INCREASED SIGNIFICANTLY ACROSS CT AND LONG ISLAND. THE LTST LOOP OF RADAR IMAGES SHOWED ROTATION EMBEDDED WITHIN THE PRECIP FIELD ABOUT 40 MILES SOUTH OF LONG ISLAND/S SOUTHERN FORK. WIDESPREAD MODERATE SNOW WITH BANDS OF HEAVY SNOW CONTINUE TO WRAP-AROUND THE INTENSE OFFSHORE LOW. SNOW CONTS TO FALL AT THE RATE OF ARND 1 INCH PER HOUR. THE LTST OKX SOUNDING SHOWS TEMPS BELOW FREEZING THROUGHOUT. AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY 200 AM EST TUE MAR 6 2001 SHORT RANGE DISC: WIDESPREAD LIGHT SNOW...WITH EMBEDDED BANDS OF MODERATE SNOW CONT TO WRAP-ARND A 981 MB LOW NEAR BOUY 44008 AT 05Z. AT 06Z...9.1 INCHES OF SNOW HAS BEEN MEASURED AT OKX. IN GENERAL... SNOWFALL SHOULD GRADUALLY DECREASE THRU AT LEAST 09Z AS A MID AND UPPER LVL DRY SLOT CONTS TO WRAP WESTWARD ACRS CT. MEDIUM RANGE DISC: AS STATED IN NCEP/S MODEL DIAGNOSTIC DISC...THE ETA AND NGM MDLS HAVE TRENDED FURTHER EAST...CLOSER TO THE AVN SOLN...FOR LOOPING THE LOW BACK TWD THE SOUTHWEST. THE ETA AND NGM TRACK THE LOW BACK TWD 71W LONGITUDE WHILE THE AVN TRACKS THE LOW ALONG 69W LONGITUDE. IN EITHER CASE...STG GRADIENT WINDS WILL CONT AS NW WINDS BACK TWD THE NORTH. AS FAR AS PRECIP AND OUR QPF...LARGE SCALE LIFT WILL ONCE AGAIN INCREASE AS THE STG UPPER LVL LOW APPROACHES THE REGION. THE GREATEST LIFT OCCURS FM 12Z TO 21Z...WHEN WIDESPREAD LGT SNOW WITH EMBEDDED BANDS OF MODERATE SNOW WILL AFFECT THE REGION. I BELIEVE THE HEAVIEST SNOW...WILL OCCUR ACRS CT AND LONG ISLAND...CLOSER TO THE LOW/S PATH...WHERE AN ADDITIONAL 3 TO 6 INCHES COULD FALL. FURTHER WEST...AN ADDITIONAL 2 TO 4 INCHES IS LIKELY. AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY 330 AM EST WED MAR 7 2001 DISC: AS OF EARLY ON THE SHIFT THERE STILL WERE SOME BANDS OF LIGHT SNOW FALLING THROUGH THE FA. THIS WAS IN RESPONSE TO THE DEEP STACKED LOW PRESS WHICH WAS DRIFTING VERY SLOWLY TO THE SW. THE SFC AND H5 LOWS WERE IN THE SAME POSITION AND LOOKING AT THE IR LOOP STREAMS OF PCPN WERE ROTATING AROUND THE LOW. THEY SHD END BEFORE FCST IS PUBLISHED AND WILL NOT MENTION ANYTHING IN THE ZONES.

Tomorrow will be the warmest day of the week with highs reaching or surpassing 40°. However, the mild temperatures will be shortlived. An even colder Arctic front will cross the region on Thursday, possibly with some snow flurries or snow showers. A frigid weekend lies ahead. Snow could arrive on Sunday. A significant snowfall is possible in and around the New York City area and surrounding region, even if a transition to sleet could occur at some point during the storm. The last time New York City saw a 6" or greater snowfall was January 28-29, 2022 when 8.3" fell. Its last 10" or above snowfall occurred during January 31-February 3, 2021 when 17.4" accumulated. There remains uncertainty and it may still be another day or two before the details can be pinned down with high confidence. The temperature will likely stay below 20° in New York City and much of the region on Saturday. The last time that happened in New York City was January 21, 2025 when the high was 19°. Overall, January 20th-February 3rd will likely be the coldest and perhaps snowiest two-week period this winter. The forecast WPO-/EPO-/AO-/PNA+ pattern is typically the coldest pattern in January and among the coldest during the first half of February. A persistently positive PNA will have above climatological risk of moderate or significant snowfalls. For perspective, the coldest two-week period this winter prior to January 20th was January 3-16, 2026 and January 4-17, 2026 with a mean temperature of 30.3°. The snowiest two-week period was December 14-27, 2025 when 7.2" of snow fell. The ENSO Region 1+2 anomaly was -0.3°C and the Region 3.4 anomaly was -0.7°C for the week centered around January 14. For the past six weeks, the ENSO Region 1+2 anomaly has averaged -0.48°C and the ENSO Region 3.4 anomaly has averaged -0.68°C. La Niña conditions will likely continue into at least late winter. The SOI was +7.54 today. The preliminary Arctic Oscillation (AO) was -2.334 today. Based on sensitivity analysis applied to the latest guidance, there is an implied near 98% probability that New York City will have a cooler than normal January (1991-2020 normal). January will likely finish with a mean temperature near 30.7° (3.0° below normal). Supplemental Information: The projected mean would be 1.9° below the 1981-2010 normal monthly value.

For those tracking snow cover, New York City has had the most days with 1" or above snow cover since Winter 2017-2018 through January 20th.

Overall, it appeared that the 12z ECMWF was a bit flatter than the 0z ECMWF, hence the slight reduction in QPF. Overall, the consensus of the guidance continues to point toward a significant snowfall, even with the risk of some sleet getting involved late in the storm.

Do you have a link to these maps?