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Occasional Thoughts on Climate Change


donsutherland1
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7 hours ago, rclab said:

Good evening Tip. I’ve read and re-read this also. I don't feel any better. It did jog a, long ago, young married memory. My wife was bemoaning our row house roach infestation. The neighborhood exterminator was on retainer and could have also delivered the daily paper. My lost love, seeking comfort from me, wailed how can we, the city/state/country get rid of these vermin pests? I replied “very simple” as she looked at me with hopeful eyes, I said …”declare them edible” I believe it was at that moment I joined their ranks. Ergo co2. As always ….

I look forward to the day when humanity ditches its faulty organic bodies and we have forever bodies and the super intelligence to match.

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8 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

I look forward to the day when humanity ditches its faulty organic bodies and we have forever bodies and the super intelligence to match.

Good morning Liberty, Definitely a worthwhile dream. I would love to live in a time when it isn’t in the ‘and they lived happily ever after’ realm. As always ….

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9 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

Dr Kaku is one of my favorites!  I wish he got more attention than he does- he doesn't get cited nearly enough, he has some excellent papers on string theory on his site.

The 0.72 figure was actually an estimate by Carl Sagan.  I wonder if progress is linear or maybe we have digressed since he made that estimate?  A variety of factors were used to calculate it and I don't think it's a slam dunk that the only way to go is up.

Phase 1 would involve harnessing the full power of the sun, being able to precisely control the climate and weather and some other properties we aren't anywhere near.

The oligarchies and the general problem of power and wealth concentrated in a very few is a major problem and the main reason we don't see progress.  The only way I see out of it is a revolution and  a very violent one at that.  I see that in humanity's future in this century and with easy accessibility to weapons of mass destruction no matter what governments try to do to abridge rights (or perhaps because of it), I feel it is inevitable.

The fact that people are in denial about the accelerating mass extinction event shows how ignorant humanity is.  It started along with the industrial revolution and has only accelerated since then.  I still believe a Foundation like scenario is the only way out-- instead of trying to save everyone hard choices will have to be made and only the best and brightest will be able to be saved (let's leave the oligarchy out of it, we should save only those who make big positive contributions to society, not to their own wallets.)  The mass extinction event is like a tipping point or phase transition, it happens "quietly" in the background-- until it doesn't!  Eventually a critical point is reached and by then it's too late and all the dominoes will fall (including humanity).  Humanity is part of the environment and what we do to it we do to ourselves.

The complacence caused by technology and the fossil fuel cartels which dumb down humanity with their propaganda is definitely like an addictive drug and the awakening will be rude when people have no choice but to awaken from their stupor.    The Fermi Paradox with the Great Filter lying ahead of us is the only outcome that makes sense to me in this context.  

Since you brought up fractals, which I love (I see fractals in all aspects of nature and humanity is part of nature so.....), I was wondering if you read the classic sci fi story Past, Present and Future.  I think you would love it, it touches on many of these points and the peak of humanity's original thinking which actually occurred during the days of the ancient Greeks according to some.

It's available for free download in various formats here

https://www.fadedpage.com/showbook.php?pid=20170467

“Original thinking” got my attention, I’m reading it now. As always …. 

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3 hours ago, rclab said:

“Original thinking” got my attention, I’m reading it now. As always …. 

Rclab are you a fan of math? If you do I have something else for you to read.

Octonions, 8 dimensional mathematics that may underlie all of reality.

https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-octonion-math-that-could-underpin-physics-20180720/

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4 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

Rclab are you a fan of math? If you do I have something else for you to read.

Octonions, 8 dimensional mathematics that may underlie all of reality.

https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-octonion-math-that-could-underpin-physics-20180720/

I would be privileged if I could meet Ms Furey. Not to discuss her work, which would be far beyond my capabilities but instead to hear her play the accordion. The article,  which was written in a way to be grasped even on a base level, left me sad in a way. Must the innovators be treated poorly and be by passed until their wisdom is obvious? Liberty, I almost was derailed by the sock before shoe scenario. Using a pair of galoshes to get by that, I moved through the rest of the article becoming more enamored with Ms Furey. Yet still what remained with me was her instrument of choice. “Accordions are the octonions of the music world “ “tragically misunderstood”. As always ….

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9 minutes ago, rclab said:

I would be privileged if I could meet Ms Furey. Not to discuss her work, which would be far beyond my capabilities but instead to hear her play the accordion. The article,  which was written in a way to be grasped even on a base level, left me sad in a way. Must the innovators be treated poorly and by passed until their wisdom is obvious? Liberty, I almost was derailed by the sock before shoe scenario. Using a pair of galoshes to get by that, I moved through the rest of the article becoming more enamored with Ms Furey. Yet still what remained with me was her instrument of choice. “Accordions are the octonions of the music world “ “tragically misunderstood”. As always ….

The great ones always are......remember the life and times of one Vincent Van Gogh, epitomized in the song "Vincent" 

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5 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

Rclab are you a fan of math? If you do I have something else for you to read.

Octonions, 8 dimensional mathematics that may underlie all of reality.

https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-octonion-math-that-could-underpin-physics-20180720/

I read a separate write up about Octonians and her work ..gosh almost 5 years ago actually.  It's interesting...

By the way - I'm aware you asked me some questions 'bout sci fi related stuff; I haven't had a chance to circle back. 

I have ideas that explain why the two main pillars of physics, Quantum Mechanics vs General Relativity, can no be reconciled - integrated.  

It has to do with General Theory or Relativity and all of ( in fact ..) reality for that matter, are "emergent properties" - or like a synegistic gestalt  brought into existence by the action of Quantum Mechanics.   But a spectrum-machinery that is way more vastly componential than any thing presently understood about the QM'verse.  ... 

Think of it this way ...  The moving projector is QM ... the cinema portrayed on the movies screen is Reality ...and General Theory of Relativity describes the rules of that Reality - not what is taking place inside the lens of the projector.  

Think of an Event Horizon surrounding a black hole...that is slipping below the lens, where the synergistic emergence of Reality no long exists - which concomitantly ... the mathematical rules in principle of Gen. Relativity simply do not exist.  

But I also wonder if there really is no real force of gravity...  what "gravity" really is, in this Science Fictional concept ... is what we feel  ( the force exertion ) of being left behind by the expansion of the cosmos - what the f does that mean, right ?  The expansion is still happening in eternal perpetuity.  However, where ever there is mass in the "Principle Of Expansion Negation theory" ... this imposes a pulling back ..or lag effect in the rate of expanding cosmos in that vicinity, and the lag dissipates at distance.   The more mass - to wit ..density is mass - the more the drag effect.  Black holes feature near or at infinite density, so space has zero expansion there.   The upshot of this idea is that time and gravity are in fact the same thing - in a universe with no mass, space expands infinitely fast, and time moves along with it.  In a universe of infinite density, time stands still and space is not expanding either.

These are just some ideas I'm working on for new Sci Fi.  I also have an interesting one about Planck Units and the information sub-cubits ( "God code" ) that is stored there that makes the fluid fabric of the cosmos -

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6 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

I read a separate write up about Octonians and her work ..gosh almost 5 years ago actually.  It's interesting...

By the way - I'm aware you asked me some questions 'bout sci fi related stuff; I haven't had a chance to circle back. 

I have ideas that explain why the two main pillars of physics, Quantum Mechanics vs General Relativity, can no be reconciled - integrated.  

It has to do with General Theory or Relativity and all of ( in fact ..) reality for that matter, are "emergent properties" - or like a synegistic gestalt  brought into existence by the action of Quantum Mechanics.   But a spectrum-machinery that is way more vastly componential than any thing presently understood about the QM'verse.  ... 

Think of it this way ...  The moving projector is QM ... the cinema portrayed on the movies screen is Reality ...and General Theory of Relativity describes the rules of that Reality - not what is taking place inside the lens of the projector.  

Think of an Event Horizon surrounding a black hole...that is slipping below the lens, where the synergistic emergence of Reality no long exists - which concomitantly ... the mathematical rules in principle of Gen. Relativity simply do not exist.  

But I also wonder if there really is no real force of gravity...  what "gravity" really is, in this Science Fictional concept ... is what we feel  ( the force exertion ) of being left behind by the expansion of the cosmos - what the f does that mean, right ?  The expansion is still happening in eternal perpetuity.  However, where ever there is mass in the "Principle Of Expansion Negation theory" ... this imposes a pulling back ..or lag effect in the rate of expanding cosmos in that vicinity, and the lag dissipates at distance.   The more mass - to wit ..density is mass - the more the drag effect.  Black holes feature near or at infinite density, so space has zero expansion there.   The upshot of this idea is that time and gravity are in fact the same thing - in a universe with no mass, space expands infinitely fast, and time moves along with it.  In a universe of infinite density, time stands still and space is not expanding either.

Right, I have always thought this about time and gravity.  Gravity is out of place as a force and time is out of place as a dimension, so they are both the odd ones out of 4.  Some significance there.  Also the holographic theory holds that both gravity and time don't exist on the outer boundary of the universe and both are emergent properties that project into the bulk (where we are) from the boundary.  You could imagine the universe as being inside a black hole (inside a larger universe perhaps) and the outer boundary of our universe would be the inner boundary of this black hole and that boundary would be like a movie projector, projecting reality into our universe.  Space and time would both be encoded in qubits into this quantum projector, making it a quantum computer of sorts.  Entanglement of qubits would be what creates space-time as pairs of particles stitch together the tapestry of reality through tiny wormholes.

I do believe the universe is cyclic in both space and time and once the universe stretches out far enough it will replicate the conditions that created the original Big Bang (Bounce?) and then the universe will restart or reboot.....and that too is encoded into the boundary.  The small value of the cosmological constant may be indicative of this as it slowly decreases with each reiteration of the cycle.

 

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1 hour ago, LibertyBell said:

California bans gas lawn mowers and leaf blowers

https://twitter.com/i/events/1447574858255134726

 

A little comical in a way considering the state of any agriculture is in a virtual arrested state due to their normal arid sequence/years being augmented on roids by climate change. 
 

it’s like when was the last time anyone needed to run one of those things ha

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3 hours ago, Typhoon Tip said:

A little comical in a way considering the state of any agriculture is in a virtual arrested state due to their normal arid sequence/years being augmented on roids by climate change. 
 

it’s like when was the last time anyone needed to run one of those things ha

Meanwhile he vetoed this, which arguably is more important.....because more access to education makes for a better society.

https://twitter.com/i/events/1447603839343816710

Gov. Gavin Newsom vetoed the most consequential legislation to college financial aid reform in a generation. What that means for California students:
For California’s higher-education system, the seemingly endless summer of good budget news came to a screeching halt when Gov. Gavin Newsom vetoed the most consequential legislation to college financial aid reform in a generation. 

AB1456 won’t become a reality, rebuffing a Legislature that unanimously supported the legislation. It would have increased by about 150,000 the number of community college, Cal State, University of California and private college students eligible for the Cal Grant — the state’s chief financial aid program.

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https://twitter.com/i/events/1447585651084468224

"Octopus farming is immoral, given everything we know about this highly intelligent animal"
The farming of octopuses is completely at odds with everything we understand about this species and everything we know that is morally and ethically right, argues Philip Lymbery.

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https://phys.org/news/2021-10-catalysts-carbon-dioxide-fuel.html

That link provides a paraphrased/repro of the metallic catalyst science I mentioned above ( the one that triggered a Sci Fi diatribe LOL ).

Converting C02  ( and one can imagine or wonder if this may work - eventually .. - with polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, too ) into usable fuel could end up being that silver bullet in the savior's gun. 


Part of the problem in this slow moving response to the crisis ...is that en masse and average, humanity's own worst enemy is the limitation of humanity to perceive climate change as an actual "crisis," or always had been. Yes, that tides turning ...but, still too slowly. There are textured reasons for the former slowness.  At a basic level, billions of people represent a huge ballast of institutionally entrusted ways-and-means, so cracking that Foundation ...takes probably a proportionally power for seismic event -  you go Azimov!

Like, there's a real murky "soft" conspiracy; it has its bread crumbs, evidences side-car to generational economic/industrial antics as lurking over the last 100 years. But, by nature of soft in this context... it's not really looked for - it just becomes pissy muse at water coolers, and plot components in espionage novels... etc,  also most likely begrudgingly/necessarily having to accept that Oil lubes capitalism's "machinery."

Redirecting wealth to research more fossil fuels extraction technologies and setting up strategic filibuster insiders in Washington ... and on and so on, that whole arc of the last 100 years is still suppression, and indirectly conspiratorial - sorry ...it just is.  But, what is a civilization of pre-K1 status supposed to do?   They kind of got us by the balls of societal provisional necessity.  And so, the search ends up extinguishing by the wave actions of a sea that is not resonating to "less survival" going back to donkeys and levers.  It's just how indirection, as opposed to evincible as direct actions by the conglomerate to tactically caps research hasn't exactly 'popularized' thus favored very many alternatives.  

However, if we can get society "interested" ...not just gaslighted or finger-wagged warned.  Hmmm.  

( Profit + Humans ) = expediency ... and always has, far more triggering a motivator than the 10 commandments ( yes...some attempted droll).   Brilliant! use Greed to solve Greed's problem.  Now that's an interesting paradox for Theologians;  is a sin a sin when the action diminishes the quality of the sin unto its self?  Maybe that realization is the evidence of our current evolutionary turn?  Kind of like the Showtime program "Dexter" - sending in a socio-psychopath to to essentially take out serial killers...? 

Or, maybe "two wrongs don't make a right"  ...and "The only winning move is, not to play."  It does in math though ...  ( - ) * ( - ) = ( + ) ... interestingly corny little joke. 

Anyway, the above science and furthering research may seed speeding things up ... acting as sort of an end-around that limitation gap, one that is too wide to save this.  

Bottom line, it's already too late.  We and countless other species we are bringing down with us, are on borrowed time ... We have to stop a fully loaded Tanker ship inside a mile of proverbial time before threshold this-and-that, but despite the growing zeitgeist to take this shit finally at a dire perspective that seems to vibe civility ... at present rate, that would require 10 miles to turn that Tanker around.  I.e., we don't have this kind of time.  

 

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19 hours ago, Typhoon Tip said:

https://phys.org/news/2021-10-catalysts-carbon-dioxide-fuel.html

That link provides a paraphrased/repro of the metallic catalyst science I mentioned above ( the one that triggered a Sci Fi diatribe LOL ).

Converting C02  ( and one can imagine or wonder if this may work - eventually .. - with polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, too ) into usable fuel could end up being that silver bullet in the savior's gun. 


Part of the problem in this slow moving response to the crisis ...is that en masse and average, humanity's own worst enemy is the limitation of humanity to perceive climate change as an actual "crisis," or always had been. Yes, that tides turning ...but, still too slowly. There are textured reasons for the former slowness.  At a basic level, billions of people represent a huge ballast of institutionally entrusted ways-and-means, so cracking that Foundation ...takes probably a proportionally power for seismic event -  you go Azimov!

Like, there's a real murky "soft" conspiracy; it has its bread crumbs, evidences side-car to generational economic/industrial antics as lurking over the last 100 years. But, by nature of soft in this context... it's not really looked for - it just becomes pissy muse at water coolers, and plot components in espionage novels... etc,  also most likely begrudgingly/necessarily having to accept that Oil lubes capitalism's "machinery."

Redirecting wealth to research more fossil fuels extraction technologies and setting up strategic filibuster insiders in Washington ... and on and so on, that whole arc of the last 100 years is still suppression, and indirectly conspiratorial - sorry ...it just is.  But, what is a civilization of pre-K1 status supposed to do?   They kind of got us by the balls of societal provisional necessity.  And so, the search ends up extinguishing by the wave actions of a sea that is not resonating to "less survival" going back to donkeys and levers.  It's just how indirection, as opposed to evincible as direct actions by the conglomerate to tactically caps research hasn't exactly 'popularized' thus favored very many alternatives.  

However, if we can get society "interested" ...not just gaslighted or finger-wagged warned.  Hmmm.  

( Profit + Humans ) = expediency ... and always has, far more triggering a motivator than the 10 commandments ( yes...some attempted droll).   Brilliant! use Greed to solve Greed's problem.  Now that's an interesting paradox for Theologians;  is a sin a sin when the action diminishes the quality of the sin unto its self?  Maybe that realization is the evidence of our current evolutionary turn?  Kind of like the Showtime program "Dexter" - sending in a socio-psychopath to to essentially take out serial killers...? 

Or, maybe "two wrongs don't make a right"  ...and "The only winning move is, not to play."  It does in math though ...  ( - ) * ( - ) = ( + ) ... interestingly corny little joke. 

Anyway, the above science and furthering research may seed speeding things up ... acting as sort of an end-around that limitation gap, one that is too wide to save this.  

Bottom line, it's already too late.  We and countless other species we are bringing down with us, are on borrowed time ... We have to stop a fully loaded Tanker ship inside a mile of proverbial time before threshold this-and-that, but despite the growing zeitgeist to take this shit finally at a dire perspective that seems to vibe civility ... at present rate, that would require 10 miles to turn that Tanker around.  I.e., we don't have this kind of time.  

 

Hey if it works!

Brilliant! use Greed to solve Greed's problem.  Now that's an interesting paradox for Theologians;  is a sin a sin when the action diminishes the quality of the sin unto its self?  Maybe that realization is the evidence of our current evolutionary turn?  Kind of like the Showtime program "Dexter" - sending in a socio-psychopath to to essentially take out serial killers...? 

Or, maybe "two wrongs don't make a right"  ...and "The only winning move is, not to play."  It does in math though ...  ( - ) * ( - ) = ( + ) ... interestingly corny little joke. 

 

Sometimes we may need to be a bit Machiavellian!

I ran across something you might want to look into, a large deposit of soot was found in Antarctica and it was dated back to around 1300.  It seems as though the Maoris did large scale burnings of the forests in New Zealand when they got there around that time and that was when this soot was deposited, so it certainly looks like we were wrecking the planet well before the Industrial Revolution!

 

Also, we were talking about black holes and infinite density and such.  I invite you to look at the Penrose diagrams of Kerr (spinning) black holes, which most of them are.  It's very interesting - there are two event horizons and two cauchy horizons and the spinning nature of these black holes makes their singularities ring shaped not points, therefore there is a way to navigate them without being shredded apart and the inner part of them is like the eye of a hurricane, it is not infinitely dense there and may in fact be traversable (a wormhole), you have to pass through four horizons and then you make it out through the last one into the interior of another universe (or a different part of the same universe.)  The interesting thing is the same research shows that the entire history of the new universe is basically recorded on the inside of this boundary (very similar to the boundary of our own universe)- which is a big indication to me that our own universe is inside a black hole inside a larger universe (and the outside of the boundary of the black hole would in turn record the entire history of this superverse.)

 

 

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19 hours ago, Typhoon Tip said:

https://phys.org/news/2021-10-catalysts-carbon-dioxide-fuel.html

That link provides a paraphrased/repro of the metallic catalyst science I mentioned above ( the one that triggered a Sci Fi diatribe LOL ).

Converting C02  ( and one can imagine or wonder if this may work - eventually .. - with polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, too ) into usable fuel could end up being that silver bullet in the savior's gun. 


Part of the problem in this slow moving response to the crisis ...is that en masse and average, humanity's own worst enemy is the limitation of humanity to perceive climate change as an actual "crisis," or always had been. Yes, that tides turning ...but, still too slowly. There are textured reasons for the former slowness.  At a basic level, billions of people represent a huge ballast of institutionally entrusted ways-and-means, so cracking that Foundation ...takes probably a proportionally power for seismic event -  you go Azimov!

Like, there's a real murky "soft" conspiracy; it has its bread crumbs, evidences side-car to generational economic/industrial antics as lurking over the last 100 years. But, by nature of soft in this context... it's not really looked for - it just becomes pissy muse at water coolers, and plot components in espionage novels... etc,  also most likely begrudgingly/necessarily having to accept that Oil lubes capitalism's "machinery."

Redirecting wealth to research more fossil fuels extraction technologies and setting up strategic filibuster insiders in Washington ... and on and so on, that whole arc of the last 100 years is still suppression, and indirectly conspiratorial - sorry ...it just is.  But, what is a civilization of pre-K1 status supposed to do?   They kind of got us by the balls of societal provisional necessity.  And so, the search ends up extinguishing by the wave actions of a sea that is not resonating to "less survival" going back to donkeys and levers.  It's just how indirection, as opposed to evincible as direct actions by the conglomerate to tactically caps research hasn't exactly 'popularized' thus favored very many alternatives.  

However, if we can get society "interested" ...not just gaslighted or finger-wagged warned.  Hmmm.  

( Profit + Humans ) = expediency ... and always has, far more triggering a motivator than the 10 commandments ( yes...some attempted droll).   Brilliant! use Greed to solve Greed's problem.  Now that's an interesting paradox for Theologians;  is a sin a sin when the action diminishes the quality of the sin unto its self?  Maybe that realization is the evidence of our current evolutionary turn?  Kind of like the Showtime program "Dexter" - sending in a socio-psychopath to to essentially take out serial killers...? 

Or, maybe "two wrongs don't make a right"  ...and "The only winning move is, not to play."  It does in math though ...  ( - ) * ( - ) = ( + ) ... interestingly corny little joke. 

Anyway, the above science and furthering research may seed speeding things up ... acting as sort of an end-around that limitation gap, one that is too wide to save this.  

Bottom line, it's already too late.  We and countless other species we are bringing down with us, are on borrowed time ... We have to stop a fully loaded Tanker ship inside a mile of proverbial time before threshold this-and-that, but despite the growing zeitgeist to take this shit finally at a dire perspective that seems to vibe civility ... at present rate, that would require 10 miles to turn that Tanker around.  I.e., we don't have this kind of time.  

 

Societal inertia is as much of a bitch as physical inertia!  To your point about there not being enough time to be able to turn the tanker around, these slow motion disasters are of the worst kind.  Going through the entirety of Asimov's sci fi the first book in the chronological history, Pebble in the Sky actually chronicled such a slow moving disaster and Asimov's solution to motivating humanity into action was to actually create another disaster, but one which was much more obvious and much faster moving.  Creating this second disaster motivated humanity to make the necessary changes to save the planet.  Machiavellian indeed!

By the way it wasn't humans who figured out the solution to stopping a slow moving disaster was to create a much more obvious fast moving disaster to motivate humanity in order to save the planet.....it was intelligent humanoid robots.  AI, gets you every time lol

 

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21 hours ago, Typhoon Tip said:

https://phys.org/news/2021-10-catalysts-carbon-dioxide-fuel.html

That link provides a paraphrased/repro of the metallic catalyst science I mentioned above ( the one that triggered a Sci Fi diatribe LOL ).

Converting C02  ( and one can imagine or wonder if this may work - eventually .. - with polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, too ) into usable fuel could end up being that silver bullet in the savior's gun. 


Part of the problem in this slow moving response to the crisis ...is that en masse and average, humanity's own worst enemy is the limitation of humanity to perceive climate change as an actual "crisis," or always had been. Yes, that tides turning ...but, still too slowly. There are textured reasons for the former slowness.  At a basic level, billions of people represent a huge ballast of institutionally entrusted ways-and-means, so cracking that Foundation ...takes probably a proportionally power for seismic event -  you go Azimov!

Like, there's a real murky "soft" conspiracy; it has its bread crumbs, evidences side-car to generational economic/industrial antics as lurking over the last 100 years. But, by nature of soft in this context... it's not really looked for - it just becomes pissy muse at water coolers, and plot components in espionage novels... etc,  also most likely begrudgingly/necessarily having to accept that Oil lubes capitalism's "machinery."

Redirecting wealth to research more fossil fuels extraction technologies and setting up strategic filibuster insiders in Washington ... and on and so on, that whole arc of the last 100 years is still suppression, and indirectly conspiratorial - sorry ...it just is.  But, what is a civilization of pre-K1 status supposed to do?   They kind of got us by the balls of societal provisional necessity.  And so, the search ends up extinguishing by the wave actions of a sea that is not resonating to "less survival" going back to donkeys and levers.  It's just how indirection, as opposed to evincible as direct actions by the conglomerate to tactically caps research hasn't exactly 'popularized' thus favored very many alternatives.  

However, if we can get society "interested" ...not just gaslighted or finger-wagged warned.  Hmmm.  

( Profit + Humans ) = expediency ... and always has, far more triggering a motivator than the 10 commandments ( yes...some attempted droll).   Brilliant! use Greed to solve Greed's problem.  Now that's an interesting paradox for Theologians;  is a sin a sin when the action diminishes the quality of the sin unto its self?  Maybe that realization is the evidence of our current evolutionary turn?  Kind of like the Showtime program "Dexter" - sending in a socio-psychopath to to essentially take out serial killers...? 

Or, maybe "two wrongs don't make a right"  ...and "The only winning move is, not to play."  It does in math though ...  ( - ) * ( - ) = ( + ) ... interestingly corny little joke. 

Anyway, the above science and furthering research may seed speeding things up ... acting as sort of an end-around that limitation gap, one that is too wide to save this.  

Bottom line, it's already too late.  We and countless other species we are bringing down with us, are on borrowed time ... We have to stop a fully loaded Tanker ship inside a mile of proverbial time before threshold this-and-that, but despite the growing zeitgeist to take this shit finally at a dire perspective that seems to vibe civility ... at present rate, that would require 10 miles to turn that Tanker around.  I.e., we don't have this kind of time.  

 

Got a couple of papers for you to read.

The one is on superhabitable planets, planets better suited for life as we know it than Earth is.  Interestingly, they are basing this on when Earth was a tropical rain forest paradise and are looking for planets warmer, wetter and larger than earth and with denser atmospheres with more oxygen.

 

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/ast.2019.2161

 

Second paper by the same group is about the likelihood of finding complex animal life on other worlds and the likelihood of finding technological life.

 

https://www.mdpi.com/2075-1729/6/3/25/htm

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On 10/11/2021 at 12:17 AM, LibertyBell said:

Dr Kaku is one of my favorites!  I wish he got more attention than he does- he doesn't get cited nearly enough, he has some excellent papers on string theory on his site.

The 0.72 figure was actually an estimate by Carl Sagan.  I wonder if progress is linear or maybe we have digressed since he made that estimate?  A variety of factors were used to calculate it and I don't think it's a slam dunk that the only way to go is up.

Phase 1 would involve harnessing the full power of the sun, being able to precisely control the climate and weather and some other properties we aren't anywhere near.

The oligarchies and the general problem of power and wealth concentrated in a very few is a major problem and the main reason we don't see progress.  The only way I see out of it is a revolution and  a very violent one at that.  I see that in humanity's future in this century and with easy accessibility to weapons of mass destruction no matter what governments try to do to abridge rights (or perhaps because of it), I feel it is inevitable.

The fact that people are in denial about the accelerating mass extinction event shows how ignorant humanity is.  It started along with the industrial revolution and has only accelerated since then.  I still believe a Foundation like scenario is the only way out-- instead of trying to save everyone hard choices will have to be made and only the best and brightest will be able to be saved (let's leave the oligarchy out of it, we should save only those who make big positive contributions to society, not to their own wallets.)  The mass extinction event is like a tipping point or phase transition, it happens "quietly" in the background-- until it doesn't!  Eventually a critical point is reached and by then it's too late and all the dominoes will fall (including humanity).  Humanity is part of the environment and what we do to it we do to ourselves.

The complacence caused by technology and the fossil fuel cartels which dumb down humanity with their propaganda is definitely like an addictive drug and the awakening will be rude when people have no choice but to awaken from their stupor.    The Fermi Paradox with the Great Filter lying ahead of us is the only outcome that makes sense to me in this context.  

Since you brought up fractals, which I love (I see fractals in all aspects of nature and humanity is part of nature so.....), I was wondering if you read the classic sci fi story Past, Present and Future.  I think you would love it, it touches on many of these points and the peak of humanity's original thinking which actually occurred during the days of the ancient Greeks according to some.

It's available for free download in various formats here

https://www.fadedpage.com/showbook.php?pid=20170467

Good morning Liberty. Excellent yet easy to read and identify with. A well written story whose age never deterred from its enjoyment. And without  the mention/use of today’s technological marvels, the tale still felt current. Thinking of the three protagonists I find myself pondering the horsemen of the apocalypse., albeit one missing. My mind dwells on the mindless masses that work to destroy the ground through degenerated intermediaries  in order to keep the few indolent happy. Perhaps trapped unknowing and destroying stone might be better than releasing them on the now verdant world, only then to turn it into our present. As I feel now if I ever envisioned a sequel to this fine work and just before the horsemen released the masses to work their destructive magic, I would have Gaia violently awaken the mountain and settle the issue once and for all. As always …..

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18 minutes ago, rclab said:

Good morning Liberty. Excellent yet easy to read and identify with. A well written story whose age never deterred from its enjoyment. And without  the mention/use of today’s technological marvels, the tale still felt current. Thinking of the three protagonists I find myself pondering the horsemen of the apocalypse., albeit one missing. My mind dwells on the mindless masses that work to destroy the ground through degenerated intermediaries  in order to keep the few indolent happy. Perhaps trapped unknowing and destroying stone might be better than releasing them on the now verdant world, only then to turn it into our present. As I feel now if I ever envisioned a sequel to this fine work and just before the horsemen released the masses to work their destructive magic, I would have Gaia violently awaken the mountain and settle the issue once and for all. As always …..

I love those stories from the Golden Age, I actually have collections of them somewhere in my house if I can find them.  The classics never age, because humanity's hopes, dreams, motivations and desires never really do either.

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5 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

Societal inertia is as much of a bitch as physical inertia!  To your point about there not being enough time to be able to turn the tanker around, these slow motion disasters are of the worst kind.  Going through the entirety of Asimov's sci fi the first book in the chronological history, Pebble in the Sky actually chronicled such a slow moving disaster and Asimov's solution to motivating humanity into action was to actually create another disaster, but one which was much more obvious and much faster moving.  Creating this second disaster motivated humanity to make the necessary changes to save the planet.  Machiavellian indeed!

By the way it wasn't humans who figured out the solution to stopping a slow moving disaster was to create a much more obvious fast moving disaster to motivate humanity in order to save the planet.....it was intelligent humanoid robots.  AI, gets you every time lol

 

rclab I know what's going to happen, I already see it happening.  The rich among us are going to go to space and establish colonies there.  Eventually when the prices get cheaper some among the upper middle class will be able to follow them.  The planet will honestly be fine, there is no "saving the planet" because the planet doesn't need to be saved- it's humanity that needs to be saved.  What will happen is that the poor and the lower middle class will be stuck on this planet as it becomes ever more inhospitable to human life  Humans will survive but at a much lower standard of living and crowded onto smaller pieces of land as sea level rises and forests burn and what's not burning is being plagued with floods.  New pandemics will occur more frequently and famine will be regular, even in the developed world as a mass extinction accelerates.  Eventually the only wildlife that exists on this planet will be a remnant human population, the animals we farm and some pests that are highly resistant to destruction.  The earth will be one large highly polluted dump which humanity will eventually give up on and those who can will leave, while the leaving is good.

Eventually, after a huge population crash (from famine, disease, starvation, etc.), humanity will return back to preindustrial levels on the planet, farming and working the land like indigenous people do, in a sustainable way.  The other segment of humanity will be colonizing the solar system and wandering into interstellar space- a confirmation of HG Wells' The Time Machine, story of two humanities, the ultra rich and everyone else.  Those who live amongst the stars and those who still exist on this planet.

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29 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

rclab I know what's going to happen, I already see it happening.  The rich among us are going to go to space and establish colonies there.  Eventually when the prices get cheaper some among the upper middle class will be able to follow them.  The planet will honestly be fine, there is no "saving the planet" because the planet doesn't need to be saved- it's humanity that needs to be saved.  What will happen is that the poor and the lower middle class will be stuck on this planet as it becomes ever more inhospitable to human life  Humans will survive but at a much lower standard of living and crowded onto smaller pieces of land as sea level rises and forests burn and what's not burning is being plagued with floods.  New pandemics will occur more frequently and famine will be regular, even in the developed world as a mass extinction accelerates.  Eventually the only wildlife that exists on this planet will be a remnant human population, the animals we farm and some pests that are highly resistant to destruction.  The earth will be one large highly polluted dump which humanity will eventually give up on and those who can will leave, while the leaving is good.

Eventually, after a huge population crash (from famine, disease, starvation, etc.), humanity will return back to preindustrial levels on the planet, farming and working the land like indigenous people do, in a sustainable way.  The other segment of humanity will be colonizing the solar system and wandering into interstellar space- a confirmation of HG Wells' The Time Machine, story of two humanities, the ultra rich and everyone else.  Those who live amongst the stars and those who still exist on this planet.

And possibly the colonizing group will create the sentient machines that will initiate their destruction. Similar to the tbeme of the video game trilogy, ‘MassEffect’ . Perhaps you and Tip could Collaborate on a Past, Present and Future story continuance. As always … 

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1 hour ago, LibertyBell said:

I love those stories from the Golden Age, I actually have collections of them somewhere in my house if I can find them.  The classics never age, because humanity's hopes, dreams, motivations and desires never really do either.

I have a several golden age anthologies in my kindle library. I was attracted to the genre, when, as a teenager looking through the houses decorative bookshelf, I found a hard copy of When World's Collide. It’s difficult to find that feeling of believability/richness in many of today’s efforts. Childhoods End and Cities In Flight are also personal favorites. 

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21 minutes ago, rclab said:

And possibly the colonizing group will create the sentient machines that will initiate their destruction. Similar to the tbeme of the video game trilogy, ‘MassEffect’ . Perhaps you and Tip could Collaborate on a Past, Present and Future story continuance. As always … 

That actually reminds me of a concept of how humanity can go from being the masters of technology to technology becoming their masters.  They wake up one day and realize they aren't the ones in control anymore.

 

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18 minutes ago, rclab said:

I have a several golden age anthologies in my kindle library. I was attracted to the genre, when, as a teenager looking through the houses decorative bookshelf, I found a hard copy of When World's Collide. It’s difficult to find that feeling of believability/richness in many of today’s efforts. Childhoods End and Cities In Flight are also personal favorites. 

Yes I have some of those!  When Worlds Collide and After Worlds Collide in one set!  Imagine my delight at finding out that rogue planets are a real thing and there are planets actually wandering through interstellar and even intergalactic space, having been ejected by their parent sun, just waiting to find a hospitable solar system to live in once again and to see the warmth of a new sun.

 

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19 minutes ago, rclab said:

I have a several golden age anthologies in my kindle library. I was attracted to the genre, when, as a teenager looking through the houses decorative bookshelf, I found a hard copy of When World's Collide. It’s difficult to find that feeling of believability/richness in many of today’s efforts. Childhoods End and Cities In Flight are also personal favorites. 

Look for Witches of Karres which was a very sweet and funny tale from back then as well as the sequels to it which were very nicely done over the past few years.  That was one of the old stories I always wanted to see a sequel to and I was glad to see that it was done by a fine collaboration of writers who kept the spirit of the original storyline alive and even expanded it in a way the original author would have wanted to.

 

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