Jackstraw

Yeah, you won't see me in a restaurant until 2021 and I'm still an active member in the NRA (no not that one). It was interesting that Holcomb said he had a call with the governors of KY and OH earlier in the day but not with IL or MI (although he did say they notified the latter states of IN's intentions early Fri.) So unless I'm missing something, I have not seen a new executive order on the IN corona page. In the past when the existing orders were extended there was a new executive order that superseded the current one. All I'm seeing is references to the backontrack.in.gov webpage. Such a reversal in direction I would assume would require a new executive order. I was hoping to be able to read that to see the finer points of how we move forward instead of a PP presentation. The current executive order expired at midnight Thurs. Some might think I'm nit picking but without a new executive order IN has now entered the foggy world of guidelines. Not like we weren't there already. Technically, the IDOH was entrusted with enforcement of the restrictions from day one, and only with investigative power. None of these restrictions were technically law except for some of the business restrictions (which fell underneath the INDOH. They basically changed the rules that health inspectors use when they inspect your business). People could congregate in groups in someones back yard (and they did) without fear of law enforcement dispersing or throwing them in jail (which really makes me wonder about these extremely small numbers of protestors, against what?). I digress, easy to find rabbit holes in all of this lol. I guess my point is, technically the previous executive order and all that was in it has been allowed to expire. The current stage 2 guidelines don't kick in until Monday. Is there technically a free for all this weekend? I mean "technically" without official public notification every restaurant in the state could open up this weekend. If I'm missing the legal document please point me to it. I thought IN was being a little smart about this but my state just took me for a walk and now all I have is a leash and no hand and I want to chase a rabbit

The site for the new guidelines is now up. https://www.backontrack.in.gov/

I agree. I expected some opening up, this was a little more than I expected. As he said, if things start to go south they may re-instate some of the current restrictions. I'd like to see specific guidelines that could cause that reaction. The one thing I did not see that I think deviates from the federal guidelines is for every stage the federal guidelines said continued 14 day drop in new cases. The Governor stated they expect to see an increase in cases as they move through the opening over the next 4 weeks. I find that a bit discerning. Hopefully the new order will address some of these things specifically. If the responsibility is being pushed more to individual citizens, if there is a sudden spike statewide in cases, IMO it's going to be very hard for the state to reimpose restrictions. The public will react like 10 year old let out of the corner, does the same bad thing, then gets a spanking.

It's going to be interesting. I think for our state it's more important than some that it be properly coordinated. I mean we have a couple large population centers but there's even bigger, and more, population centers in other states right on our border. The protests in Indiana are a very small bullshit minority. There's a few inconveniences, but for the most part anybody who thinks their freedom is being trampled on needs to go back in their cave. In the more rural counties like where I live the biggest issue isn't folks laid off, it's REAL small businesses struggling, not stock market listed "small businesses" struggling. I've been very impressed for the most part at the social distancing aspect. Yeah there are a lot of people out on the nice days but the few times I or one of our friends has done the group shopping thing, been very surprised at how folks are respecting the whole social distancing thing this far in. Few bad apples here and there but they are usually put in their place if there's a small respectful group around that see's it. Nice days there's a lot of cars out but the parking lots are not full at all. Think it's just people doing like me, take a ride. It's nice out, it's safe, and it keeps the heebeegeebees at bay. It's going to be hard to make the calls up where you're at, down in the SE corner of the state and down by Clarksville. Those areas are so intertwined with the larger metropolises across state lines, amongst others, it really is going to have to take coordination between the states. And to my point about state borders. When you look at a map.OH,IL, and IN share more "extensive" as in lengths of the borders consistently with more states than any other states in the country. So, IMHO, it is more imperative that they coordinate the re-opening with their border states than maybe others in the country.

I think Holcombe here in Indiana has been doing a pretty good job. Indiana is one of the few states in the country that is bordered by 4 other states , not just a small border like say GA and TN for example, but extensive borders. Indiana shares very large borders with the 4 surrounding states. I would argue the largest borders combined with other states than any other state in the country. "Cross roads of America". What Indiana's neighbors do, and just as important to Indiana's neighbors, what we do, can have a huge impact on each. It could be argued that how Indiana moves forward could have a greater impact to this region as opposed how one of the 4 bordering states move forward, at least when it comes to the number of people affected. I'm glad that this region is working together on moving forward. Holcombe could very well hold this region hostage. If he would pull a Kemp the number of people that could possibly be adversely affected would be much larger than Indiana. I think he really is listening to the Governors that surround Indiana whose states have been hit much harder than Indiana. From hearing him speak at his conference calls I get the feeling of such a thing as "State social distancing". A single state that shares like 100-200 miles of borders with 4 surrounding states, decisions by all of those states need to be very closely coordinated, partisanship aside. I think Holcombe understands that and is letting that, and more importantly, has been letting the science guide his decisions moving forward. He's not perfect, nobody is in this time. But, compared to other Republican Governors in the country I don't think he's towing the "behind the scenes" line being touted by the federal "leadership". We shall see come Monday how this Governor, and the Governors of the 4 surrounding states move forward. I am glad of one thing, better Holcombe than Pence right now.

I read that study also. Even though it's not "conclusive" there's a lot of plain old common sense in it. It's pretty much coming out the length of time to exposure is exponentially related to the chance of someone who would not "normally" have severe complications as apposed if they contracted the virus by simply shaking hands with someone, to becoming severely ill. The replication rate of this virus internally isn't extreme compared to others (Ebola doubles every 20 minutes). But if you are consistently exposed hour by hour, day by day for a couple days the "number" of viruses that infiltrate over time overwhelm even younger and/or healthy peoples immune system and can cause an immune inflammatory response requiring hospitalization. It's being studied this is why folks on these cruise ships had such an adverse reaction to the virus with severe infections up to 5 times a town of similar size. This may be why there was a higher rate of severe infections in densely populated areas initially. That church in Sacramento had a disproportionately large number of severe infections and deaths compared to people who may have been infected yet less exposed consistently. It's probably why we've seen stories of young healthy hospital workers succumbing, the hi rates of police and other first responders succumbing. These people that are higher than most to be in contact initially, they are higher than most to be in contact over and over again. They are running much higher rates of being severely infected regardless of demographic. I really think there is a "dose" factor here simply because of the long incubation time. Which once again brings us back to what? TESTING TESTING.

Well the only way we're going to get testing is the same way states had to get supplies, the feds either dish out what tax dollars already bought, or sieze what states purchased with their own money, then dish the stuff out to private middle men under the auspice that they are the best supply chain we have and those grifters basically ebay it all at a huge profit because it's legal to price gouge our tax dollars via the government but not our wallets in this country. This is the most disgusting raping of this country I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot of rapes of the tax base by these fat cats. I am disgusted period. Anyone who thinks this shit's ok can just go screw themselves.

There are folks around here that are are believing an internet rumor (what? It's not true?) that if you smoke cigarettes you have a better chance of not contracting the virus because the flem from cig smoking in your lungs is so thick the virus can't get through it to get to the cells in your lungs. Seriously. I've heard that story standing in line at a store more than once, and have had people tell me that. Disclaimer: I was a fairly heavy corporate smoker for about 20 years. Currently I am a light tobacco user. Equal to about a couple packs a week but their hand rolled and I occasionally smoke a pipe. I do rationalize. I get the the tobacco from a friends very small organic tobacco farm in NC that's illegal as hell. I won't go into why organic non pesticide, non nicotine ramped up tobacco is illegal. It's a habit (tobacco company jargon for addiction lol) I've tried to stop several times but just can't, so be it, so I do it in the most "healthy" way I can. And yes I partake in the indigenous natural gift of mother nature but mostly in edible form, it's cheaper and much more relaxing. When I smoke it it literally makes me sick to my stomach and just gets me too wasted.

Going to be a half way decent day Saturday around the GL region. The heebeegeebees are rearing their heads. With the encouragement of DC let the great experiment begin. Hope it goes well, really do. Hope the wack jobs don't follow the leader.

I'm not a social media person. I don't tweet, twitch, tchwat, face or anything. This board is about as social media as I'll ever get. Hoosier can delete this post if he needs to, I understand. One of my best friends I've ever had lost his life to this around noon today. He was perfectly healthy, no underlying conditions. He was 10 years my junior at 48, had worked his way up from being a dishwasher at my restaurant back in the 90's to becoming a partner in that business with my brother and I to getting a PHD in 2017 in social psychology. He was my roommate for 5 years, my friend, my adventure buddy from kayaking to rock climbing to just about anything that made you feel alive to anything stupid enough to get you killed. He kept my "Old Man" arrogance in check while pushing me to not be "The Old Man". Most of all we listened to each other, really listened, something that's hard to come by nowadays. He married a wonderful woman he met who was waitressing at our restaurant and they have 4 awesome kids. She went from a waitress to being a pediatric RN. He started feeling bad the last week of March. He and I were talking on the phone and I asked him if he was ok because I could just tell something wasn't right.. He told me he was fine just felt like a little cold. With what was going on and being someone like me who very seldom gets sick with colds flu or anything I asked him if he was concerned. That's when he told me he had already self contained himself in their garage by then so I knew he knew something was up. 3 days later his wife called us and was really getting concerned. She said he had a 102 temp that wasn't moving. He's a stubborn prick like I am so she asked me to talk to him. I talked to him on the phone over the next couple days and it was very noticeable he was getting worse. By the 3rd of April he conceded something was really wrong, really wrong. She got him to the hospital the following day, they tested him but since they had a good quarantine set up at home, plus they live on 5 acres in the country, and he wasn't in the high risk category sent him home. When he conceded he was sick it just got worse. I talked to him 2 maybe 3 times a day, either skype or just the phone. Thats when he started getting scared. I mean you could hear the subtle fear in his voice, the struggle to breathe, you could see it in his face. He was trying to stay cool for his wife and kids but she knew. I was scared for him. We would talk and do the he's young and healthy enough drill that he'd make it through. They got the result of the test back the 6th and it was positive. She tried to get him admitted to the hospital last Tuesday but even though he was positive he didn't adhere to the criteria needed in FL to be admitted. He finally got so bad last Thursday night she had to call an ambulance and they admitted him. He was in ICU on Friday, that's the last time I talked to him. They intubated him Friday evening and he succombed Monday. The only reason I'm posting this is because this ain't the damn flu. This was a perfectly healthy active 48 year old man It took it 3 weeks to take him but it took him. Not a weak man, not someone who gives up, not someone who cowers in front of adversity. A true survivor that overcame hurtles in his life that most of us would or will never have to face. I'm still numb to this. I won't be able to pay my respects at a funeral. I couldn't and can't jump on a plane and embrace his wife, his 3 kids in college, his one still at home. He and I were both cynical about this back in January, lets just get it and we'll be immune come fall when it comes back like the flu. This ain't the damn flu and it will kill anyone who doesn't take it seriously and doesn't treat it with respect and with the responsibility we all have to our family friends and neighbors. This story is one of millions worldwide. Please be safe everyone and truly think about others before you think about your wallet.

So what is going to happen. First thing I have a question about is the hospitality industry. This industry is absolutely taking the biggest hit with these social distancing orders. Mom and pop restaurants are already getting crushed by the corporate drive through joints, heck even places like corporate Olive Garden type restaurants are getting killed by the Hardees of the country. How are these businesses going to open back up, exercise facilities, theaters, bars, anyplace that people congregate. Another thing is, what about folks who work at businesses that won't be allowed to open back up. There is a clause in the unemployment benefits that the feds said they would help with the extra 600 dollars a week (which doesnt kick in until next week in IN) will go through 7/31. They can revoke that if they decide to. The freeze on utility bills and rent payment repercussions, are those going to be lifted as soon as the economy gets reopened? Are utilities going to suddenly go around and disconnect folks who are either getting back to work or are still waiting for the extra UE benefits or stimulus money trying to get caught back up? Landlords evicting, banks foreclosing without a reasonable chance for some to get caught back up? Whats the reasonable time frame for that chance? Are people going to have to prove that they deserve continued help to get back to work in order to keep getting assistance in the short term? Small businesses that took the paycheck loans, they have to pay those back while at the same time trying to recover their business if they are lucky enough to open back up. What about the employees in the service industry that are already risking their lives for not that great of a paycheck, are they going to be exposed even more? There's a myriad of other issues. I agree we need to open the economy up like nobody's business. But the states better have their shit together doing it. There's going to be a lot of inequality when a restaurant or daycare center or theater can open in WY but none can in CO. It sucks, but IMHO we just can reopen statewide and/or nationwide until we have sufficient testing. It's not a matter of oppressive government, it's a matter of social responsibility. Lord knows I want to get back to work, and I'm sure there are many others who want to. We HAVE to get a sufficient testing system in place before we pull the 69 VW we're in back onto the interstate. If not I'm afraid there's gonna be a pile up that will shut that interstate down for a very long time.

The executive office of the country has claimed absolute power over everyone (was only a matter of time) so all arguments are moot now. Let's all just fall in line and follow our supreme leader

Thats an amazing yet sad story, probably one of many. The biggest take away is just how contagious this virus is. It's amazing science how quickly the genome of this virus was sequenced. It's amazing science that we learned how closely it's related to past viruses. What's not understood yet about this virus is why is it so contagious. What part of it's genome makes it so sneaky that it only makes some people sick and others not. Those not to the point they aren't even sick yet they are contagious. To me this is the scary part of this thing. I'm quite surprised about an antibody test when at the same time it's not known if someone can be reinfected. Has that been proven yet? Can we become immune? What good is an antibody test if in fact you can be reinfected? Odds are once infected and recovered there's immunity built up. If this is an antibody test then it must be known within the medical circles that people become immune. Why hasn't that been expressed? I'm a bit puzzled. Edit:@Hoosiers post about the woman who never left for 3 weeks

The rural south has a large black population. Are the numbers there similar to the urban areas in the big cities? There are some counties in southern IN that took off like a rocket, but they were also some of the poorest counties in the state, Franklin, Decatur for example. They also don't have a very large black or even hispanic population. I understand deep crowded urban cities. My fear is making this virus racial instead of socio economic. We've already seen backlash towards Asian Americans over this, hell even in my small town the one chinese restaurant closed because of threats when all they've ever done is carry out, which is permitted. We need to be very careful throwing the race card around and focus on, what I believe, the real issue, it's money and healthcare access. Edit: Folks, millionaires are getting tested whenever they want. There are Dr.'s out there that will test you for 600-1000 bucks. If there's not something wrong with that, well make your own decision. The fact that the capitalistic mindset is still ruling the day in a time when the society that gives it it's privilege is being deprived is just criminal IMHO.

Instead of race I wish they would post income levels.

Madison county coroner posted 2 large refrigerated walk in coolers they acquired to handle storage of the deceased last week. May sound drastic but it is a mostly rural county except for Anderson. They normally can only handle 6-10 at a time.

Yes as with anything when it comes to healthcare in this country, 2 years down the road from now when the true numbers come out the demographic most prone to this virus are going to be poor with little or no access to quality healthcare. Trying to stay non political but we really are the only "wealthy" country left in the world where access to healthcare depends on your wallet. The pundits can say what they want, this is exposing the nightmare and inequality of healthcare in this country, from the top down. Not to mention the gutting of federal funds to the states for healthcare infrastructure over the last 40 years. To be the leader of democracy in the world, think our pants just got pulled down.

Been watching Justin's channel for many years. Pretty amazing how they're trying to help get PPE's to health care workers in N AL...

Same here, I had to back away from the news cycle for a few days. As much as we deal with models on this board I tried to take the IHME with a grain of salt but I didn't think it's output would have been as bad as the AVN. Now it is bouncing lower, much lower, but I sure hope it's not doing the 'ol weather model windshield wiper on snowstorm tracks. Wagon's down I'm all for it.

Hope it stays wrong

Still don't understand why AL isn't being focused on. According to the "official IHME" model they are going to get hammered. I know I keep harping on it but next to NY that state is is deep crap. The model is inputting their massive lack of hospitals to deal with it but it's getting worse. They will be running a per capita death rate 3 times NY. I have a good friend from Chicago that relocated to Mobile for work 6 years ago. He's taking his family back to Chicago this weekend because of this. He works in epidemiology from a project management aspect and he's told me the medical officials down there are bracing for armageddon. They are scared to death down there. I fear you're going to hear AL as one of the largest tragedies that could've been prevented out of all of this. It's very sad whats going on there and hopefully the medical professionals and the models are wrong.

What amazes me about Italy is northern Italy supposedly has one of the highest rated if not the best medical systems in Europe. They have a median age of I think 49. Southern Italy has not been hit nearly as hard, is much poorer a median age of like 55 and the medical infrastructure is nothing compared to northern Italy. It's kind of the wild west of Italy. Yet they've been running 50 to 60 % behind northern Italy in death rates so far. The demographics of where this hit first and hard are going to be very interesting once it settles down in about a year.

I agree and it will/should probably go through May like you said. I think it's going to be status quo until at least the the end of this month. I do have a fear that as some states start to flatten the curve while others are entering the worst of their curves, what's going to happen? I know we can't keep the economy semi shut down like it is forever, and trust me it's semi shutdown not completely. How are we going to deal with reopening the economy coming out of this? States that can relax their restrictions first will have an economic advantage over those that can't. For that matter there's going to be a similar reaction worldwide. Relaxing the social distancing rules in certain places could very well put us back into the same situation we're in. There is a myriad of issues coming up in the next 90 days. Sorry but this everyone for themselves approach this country has taken is going to do way more harm in the long run than any economic recession or depression in our history when we just say screw it we gotta keep the economy going let who dies die.

That's so sad. What sucks is compared to other disasters this one makes it difficult for neighbors to be neighbors because nobody wants to possibly expose themselves. Week 3 I'm telling ya. When you ask people to stay locked down it's week 3 when the edge really starts setting in. With this it's even worse because the news is just going to get worse as soon as folks start getting edgie. I can't say enough about just jumping in the car and taking off for a couple hours. Don't have to get out just drive. If you find a place I'm telling ya, get out set on the hood and chill. Especially at night, go somewhere dark and stare at the sky when it's clear. It's going to be crucial for a lot of people to just get away, there's plenty of room out there just gotta take a ride ad find it.

I posted before about some of things I'm doing. I admit, I am in a very rural area compared to most on this board. But if you're getting the heebeegeebees of staying at home you can get in your car and take a ride, just ride around. You don't have to get out. If you can get away from a city center and get on a country road somewhere do it. Pull over get out and set on your hood. You're not going to get sick, or more importantly make someone else sick out in the middle of nowhere. This forum is in the middle of farm country. Trust me we've been doing it. Had some friends from Indy come up today, we met them them half way in our cars, found a country road and had a picnic, some beers, a nice little social meeting with social distance on a gravel road with friends. I understand something like that might be more difficult in big cities like Chicago. I've worked in Chicago and you can take a drive and get to someplace like that in an hour. Youre in your car, youre not exposing or being exposed. I'm serious cause over the next couple weeks, especially if you live in cities, you can get out of your house go find someplace where nobody's at get out of your car and enjoy some freedom.