1 minute ago, schoeppeya said:

Yeah that’s definitely getting into legal stuff above my head. You’d think if they could require a vaccine for entry to the stadium, they could apply that to players?

Maybe. But the players are required to be there and are employed by the NFL. The fans are not. I'm just guessing it would fall under a different legal standard. I was listening to a medical ethics dude the other day that suggested an employer requiring vaccines for employees would be really tough under an EUA and would be a big court battle. 

7 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

I think that’s his point 

Sure. I feel like the county would have a real tough time trying to exert its influence over a NFL team in that way. The NFLPA would probably complain and take them to court. 

I dont know the rules and the legal but requiring a vaccine to play for the Bills (especially under an EUA) might be a bit different than requiring one for attending a game. 

1 minute ago, Stebo said:

I am sure Allen will be too, even if he is a country boy, someone with a brain around him will motivate him.

Yeah I have a feeling he'll get around to it. He didn't say he wouldn't. 

1 minute ago, Powerball said:

I stand by what I said, which was that it's an unfair double standard. 

I mean maybe. I'd rather have everyone vaccinated lol. 

1 hour ago, Powerball said:

Now that's something I have an issue with. Two different sets of rules...

Hopefully, if the fans are mandated to be vaccinated, the players are as well. 

It's an erie county rule not a bills rule. 

40 minutes ago, WaryWarren said:

He's already suffering from CTE. RIP.

Nah. Growing up on a cantaloupe farm will do that to you lol. Its fine. I'd rather he be a bit more pro vaccine but he mostly took a neutral milquetoast position. Perhaps he wants to make sure that he doesn't offend anyway and sell merchandise. 

6 minutes ago, CorePunch said:

People are dying out there man. Covid is posing a substantially higher risk than (currently) 1 - 1000000 women developing blood clots. Actually, I have to defend Silvers Tweet. He’s right, statistically yanking this vaccine is deadly. 

If it was the only vaccine I'd agree with you. But there's 2 other vaccines with ample supply. The pause probably won't be very long. 

Buffalo Bills are doing passports for full capacity this fall

5 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

BTW you were asking about how much having a strong cardiovascular system can protect against Covid. A couple months ago I posted a study that looked at people that did treadmill stress tests and later tested positive for Covid. Each level of better fitness on the treadmill resulted in a lower hospitalization rate. Fitness level really matters when it comes to Covid risk. That's why of all the athletes in college and pro sports that have tested positive, it's incredibly rare that these athletes end up in the hospital.

Look. Other countries stopped the vaccine at times. The Britain health regulator has recommended people under 30 not take this type of vaccine, and now some US health officials are saying pause. This is not just me making stuff up. These are health experts. There is legitimate concern about this type of vaccine. Enough that healthy young people should consider the risk. The other type of vaccines seem much safer, thankfully. I've said enough on this subject. Everyone have a good day.

No one doubts that fitness and health are strongly associated with good covid outcomes. You just exaggerate the benefit to absurdity to the point where you actually believe vaccines are more dangerous than the virus. 

5 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

My coworker is a huge anti vaxxer and she went to Mcdonalds yesterday for lunch and smoked a cigarette as she was leaving. 

All american meal right there. 

1 minute ago, mattb65 said:

People will assume they can avoid covid or assume that even if they get unlucky and catch itthat they'll probably be fine. 

On the other hand they have to actively choose to get a vaccine that they've now heard May cause blood clots.

Even though the risk of blood clots appears to be extremely low,  I can easily see the thought process behind someone saying nope to choosing J&J or AstraZeneca because it is now a known risk that is within their control.  Catching covid and the risks of infection is a much more nebulous risk. 

Tough position for the FDA/CDC if they said nothing it seems like they may be hiding something, if they do what they've done, the media and everyone freaks out.

Yes. Im okay with the pause so they can better to analyze and quantify the risk. 

Just now, winterwx21 said:

 Wise for young people to look at the infection level in their area and their own risk level, and make an informed decision. Not every young person is at low risk. Many are at higher risk due to obesity and other factors. An extremely healthy athlete might not want to take any risk at all with this type of vaccine, while it's worth the tiny blood clot risk for someone that's obese since they're at much higher Covid risk.

A younger athletic persons risk of dying of covid is far higher than 1 in 7 million. 

Just now, winterwx21 said:

The Astrazeneca vaccine is the same type of vaccine as the Johnson vaccine, and there have been a couple hundred cases and a number of deaths over there. Britain's health regulator has recommended that people under the age of 30 get a different Covid vaccine, and now we're seeing a pause of the Johnson vaccine in the US. Obviously there have been enough cases that this type of vaccine is a concern for healthy young people that are already at very low Covid risk.

Yes, but even the AZN vaccine has about a 1 in 100000 risk of these rare blood cots discussed. The only time it might not make sense for someone to get that vaccine is if they are under 30, and if they live in an area with low covid prevalence, so that your absolute risk from the vaccine would be even or maybe slightly higher. Anywhere where there's a lot of covid, it makes sense to get the vaccine, at any age, from a risk standpoint. In places where there's more than one option, I would definitely opt for the mRNA vaccines, but if AZN was only available, I would take it at 35. 

16 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

That's true, but as you said you can understand the thinking. The chance of a very healthy young person dying from Covid is comparable to the risk of dying in a car accident. The risk is so incredibly low that it's not something you worry about. To me dying from a vaccine that you don't even need is the worst kind of tragedy. Even 1 death like that is completely unacceptable to me. I would rather keep myself in top shape through exercise and diet and rely on my own good health to protect me from severe Covid than take a vaccine that has even the tiniest blood clot risk. Of course that's just my opinion and it's fine if others feel differently. Again the good news is the other 2 vaccines don't seem to bring that risk. There is more of a risk of severe allergic reactions with those vaccines, but you can have them watch you for 30 minutes and they can inject you to save you if you have the rare allergic reaction.

I dont really see it that way. There was a single person that was reported to die out of nearly 7 million people. If you didn't do things that carry that type of risk you never do anything...

4 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

Even though it's extremely rare, you can understand why extremely healthy young people might not want to take the J & J vaccine now. If you statistically have an extremely low risk of dying from Covid (like is the case for the very healthy young), it's understandable that some healthy young people would not want to take any chance at all with a blood clot risk with a vaccine since they're already at very low Covid risk. Any blood clot risk at all for completely healthy people is unacceptable. Of course the good news is people can take the other 2 vaccines, but this is definitely a blow to vaccination efforts. A lot of young people found the J & J vaccine more appealing due to only 1 shot and less flu-like side effects. This could hurt the effort of trying to get to herd immunity.

I could understand the thinking, but it's still misguided at the reported level. The risk is far greater of severe effects/dying of covid in a younger individual than a blood clot from this vaccine. 

1 hour ago, BuffaloWeather said:

Lots of things are not FDA approved. I'm drinking my Bang energy drink this morning which is not and then preworkout isn't either. Preworkout messed me up back in January, I'll never take again. 

This wouldn't have been found if it were fully approved anyway. This is a rare side effect that you wouldn't expect to find in a 30,000 person trial.

5 minutes ago, Powerball said:

The vaccines are being distributed according to population. If more are sent to Michigan, then other states would get fewer doses. Also, even if they sent more vaccines, it wouldn't do anything to stop the surge now since it takes two weeks before it provides immunity. 

That said, the Biden administration has taken other action to help with Michigan's surge in COVID cases:

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/biden-to-rush-vaccinators-to-michigan-as-gov-urges-limits/2483025/

From a public health standpoint you'll save more lives if you surge vaccines to hot spots now rather than just generally vaccinating by population. Other public health people have been suggesting it. It also takes time for NPIs to stop a surge. 

14 minutes ago, Powerball said:

CDC chief says Michigan should ‘shut things down,’ vaccinating alone won’t stop Covid surge

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/12/covid-shutdown-cdc-chief-says-vaccinating-alone-wont-stop-michigan-covid-surge.html

Seems like both should be done. I think its silly that the US is not surging vaccines in Michigan.

Nothing new under the sun.

To slow the spread of the highly infectious and often deadly virus, there was a nationwide push for smallpox vaccination. In cities and states with the worst outbreaks, vaccination was compulsory and official certificates of vaccination were required to go to work, attend public school, ride trains or even go to the theater.

The mandatory vaccination orders angered many Americans who formed anti-vaccination leagues to defend their personal liberties. In an attempt to dodge public health officials, who went door-to-door (often with a police escort) to enforce vaccination laws, some anti-vaccination activists would forge certificates of vaccination. Unable to tell if certificates were legitimate, health officials fell back on physical evidence: they demanded to see a vaccination scar.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/vaccine-passports-smallpox-scar

Just now, CheeselandSkies said:

I think a "passport" though by definition would be something that is required for international travel, or for certain privileges at the federal level (access to airports or Amtrak trains, for example). Surely individual businesses should be able to decide if they will require proof of vaccination for entry, the same as they could flout shutdown orders or declare themselves "mask-free zones" in the name of running their business as they see fit?

Yeah I don't think there's anything you can do about that. I'm more discussing when the government is involved. 

2 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

It's already starting though.  Was just reading a story yesterday about some places in Las Vegas.

What's starting? 

14 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Based on who has been vaccinated the most so far, you could make an argument that a vaccine passport is racist.  Others can make that argument if they want.  I mean, we still have a sizable chunk of white America that hasn't been vaccinated either.

Even for people who seem to be in favor of them, I think the consensus is you do not do it until everyone has actually had the opportunity to get one (domestically). Too many fairness issues to implement something like that currently. 

12 minutes ago, mattb65 said:

Except for rare circumstances, anyone can choose to get vaccinated.  Comparing this to something like the ugly history of segregation which has been based on innate qualities most commonly race is a pretty terrible false equivalency. 

There was also no rational basis to segregate people based on things like race or gender in the past.  There is a very clearly rational basis to give vaccinated individuals different treatment compared to unvaccinated people given the current circumstances. 

If a business suffers because of giving preferential treatment to those vaccinated then the free market will sort things out,  isn't that what most conservatives preach?

 

Also in terms of moving the country forward,  we do so by crushing the pandemic, the best way to do that is by everyone that is able getting vaccinated. 

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cub21ueWNvbnRlbnQuY29tL2QvcGxheWxpc3QvYWFlYTRlNjktYWY1MS00OTVlLWFmYzktYTk3NjAxNDY5MjJiL2IwMjQ3MzY3LTg4MmYtNDY3Yy05ODI2LWFjMTYwMTZmYTE1Yy85MTMyZmQ1YS04ZTZkLTQ0Y2ItYTliYS1hYzE2MDE2ZmExNWMvcG9kY2FzdC5yc3M/episode/ODNmMzBmNmItZmFlZS00N2QwLWFlOGItYWNmNzAxNDNmZjZi?ep=14

I listen to this the other night. Interesting arguments. Any sort of employer mandates are going to be challenging legally speaking before the fda grants full licensure. Seems like there's much more leeway and history with respect to international travel and immigration. There's already required vaccines for entering certain country and immigrating to certain countries.