OSUmetstud

8 minutes ago, Stebo said:

2 articles from 5 months ago, maybe try something a bit more recent say... after all these schools reopened.

The evidence is pretty strong from European schools too. Do you have any specific evidence that schools are driving community transmission? I feel like it's been established for some time that the outbreaks have started in the younger adult population and then spread into older age groups from there. 

Just now, Stebo said:

Logically that doesn't make sense though, the flu/cold spread like wild fire at schools, the ventilation of schools is shit at best much like churches or restaurants and you can't name a more packed place for people than a classroom of 30 people. The only reason we don't know is because of the testing especially now that higher contagious variants are showing up more, the positives from student athletes is an eye into that though.

I think it does for a few reasons. Young children may actually be less susceptible to infection. They are also more likely to be asymptomatic than adults. They may just not be very effective as transmitters for this disease. I think initially the idea that schools would be a bigger problem with experiences with flu, which made sense, but this isn't exactly flu so it seems like things are a bit different. 

Just now, Stebo said:

I don't know how we can know this definitively though if there is barely any testing for children, the data available is very limited because children aren't being tested as much as adults.

We dont know anything with this virus definitively. But I think the evidence doesnt point to schools being "virus reactors" that they are flu season. There's also plenty of evidence that kids are catching the infection outside of the immediate school environment. 

4 minutes ago, Stebo said:

Those arguing that schools should be open, remember this doesn't often show up in kids, so they are very much silent spreaders that bring it back home where the cases can then skyrocket. You can see evidence of this with the student athletes being tests and positive while not being symptomatic. If we tested all these kids at school you'd see staggering numbers guaranteed.

You are right that they can be more silent spreaders but this idea just isn't supported. 

Schools and SARS-CoV-2 transmission

Based on the data available, in-person learning in schools has not been associated with substantial community transmission. Although national COVID-19 case incidence rates among children and adolescents have risen over time, this trend parallels trends observed among adults.¹⁷ Increases in case incidence among school-aged children and school reopenings do not appear to pre-date increases in community transmission.^17,32-34

^{https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/transmission_k_12_schools.html}

17 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

Though, admittedly, this is very dependent on location and socioeconomic status and things like that. Leaving a 15 year old at home to go to school while the parents go to work is a completely different ballgame in an low crime, upper middle class suburban neighborhood where everyone has internet access vs. a high-crime, poorer urban area where not everyone has internet access.

Yeah that exactly right. It increases the disparities that already exist. It's also another reason why lockdowns are only quasi-effective in the short term. The government didnt/doesn't help the front line workers enough in impoverished areas all that much and they can't work from home. So you end up shifting the infection burden on an already relatively unhealthy cohort in multigenerational households while middle and upper class mostly white people can work from home and order Uber eats. Then, everyone focuses (including the government to shift blame on to the individual) on maybe the 20% of spread that is actually caused by "bad behavior" all the while ignoring the systemic issues behind the majority of the spread. 

3 hours ago, TimB84 said:

On the flip side of that coin, a quick Google search turns up the fact that as of January there were 530 US teachers who died as a result of covid (that we know of, so the number is likely higher). And the fact is, given that teachers are usually able to retire before the age of 60, very few of them are in the vulnerable age group. So there’s a delicate balance between death and how much we’re willing to let students “fall behind” their peers in other states and countries that are mostly doing the same thing.

Pretty sure I've seen evidence that teachers are far more likely to get covid outside of schools than in the school...just like kids are catching more covid outside of school than in school. School doesn't have to be perfectly safe to be in favor of mostly open school given the obvious negative effects of long term school closures. 

An interesting discussion with respect to history and legalities of vaccine passports in the US. 

https://time.com/5952532/vaccine-passport-history/

I believe there is subtle divergence in the weekly death metrics and the case metrics as the oldest population gets more vaccinated. For much of the pandemic from the summer through the winter, the 21-day lagged Case Fatality Rate was somewhere between 1.5 and 2.0%. Latest data suggests a bit less than that, maybe like 1.4% or so. 

More great evidence that vaccines are our main way out of this. 

Just now, TimB84 said:

So 22% of our nation’s population accounts for 44% of covid infections. Not good. But hopefully certain people take note of the fact that Florida is one of those states.

I dont really care as to which states it is. It's more about allocating vaccine resources to those places where infection is surging because it saves more lives. 

Florida's excess data does not suggest much undercount. There are other states (and countries) where there is a much larger difference. 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/14/us/covid-19-death-toll.html

4 minutes ago, StormfanaticInd said:

ugh man that guy is the worst. Such a fear monger. This happened in the original SARS too. 

1 minute ago, BuffaloWeather said:

A dumb counter argument. Are you not going to eat fast food because it causes high blood pressure or to be overweight? Are you not going to go out in the sun because you can get skin cancer? Covid presents very little risk to me. Most of the people I know got the sniffles/cold. I have my Pfizer shot on Saturday. 

The dumb argument was that you literally cant get that vaccine in the US lol. I'd still suggest that if it were the only vaccine available and you were in area of high community prevalence of the virus, it would be safer to "take a chance" with that vaccine than to take a chance with the virus. That complication is considerably more rare than the covid death rate of people our age. 

Just now, yoda said:

So... you aren't going to fly then?  Drive?

He could just get a US approved vaccine. This one is not lol. 

Just now, yoda said:

This got buried quickly

There's reason to be skeptical on that vaccine, specifically for younger women. There's enough evidence that Canada pulled approval for those under 55. There's some reports that the incidence of the SVTs be as high as 1 in 100000. I hope they figure it out because it's a hugely important vaccine for europe and the world in general. It's a cheap vaccine sold at cost and can be stored at fridge temps. Thats the vaccine that was likely going to be used in Africa and the Middle East and the poorer areas in the world. 

Just now, BuffaloWeather said:

You should still do your research before you take any medication or vaccine. My cousin was given Zpack when he contracted covid in January and he has Colitis. He ended up getting CDiff and was in the hospital for 7 days. Cdiff mortality rate is 4-6%. Why would they give him antibiotics for a viral infection? They only work against a bacterial infection. I texted my buddy who is a PA and he stated doctors give out antibiotics far too quickly.

I have another example of a doctor giving me meds far too quickly in January for some issues I was having as well, and ended up having pretty bad side effects

You should still always question everything, even medical professionals. 

Dr. Daniel Griffin on his Twiv clinical update was complaining about some doctors still prescribing zpacks and/or steroids very early on in illness. Most covid deaths are covid deaths. They are not caused by secondary bacterial infection. 

3 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

A few years ago I was talking about vaccines with a coworker-they were anti vax back when it was a hipster/suburban mom fringe movement to be anti vax. His wife was a nurse at a hospital and one of her doctors was supposedly the ones feeding her the anti vax info. He also fed the "my wife is in healthcare" line. 

Theres still some horseshoe theory here for sure, but I believe the largest antivax/vaccine-hesitant group is conservative. 

3 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

That's entirely my point. 

If DTA wasn't embroiled in right-wing politics he would see the vaccine was beneficial to him and society at large. From a scientific perspective, it absolutely is. 

Just now, TimB84 said:

Assuming you really mean actual medical professionals, I’ll give you that. I was having an argument with an anti-masker/anti-lockdown person/anti-vaxxer (can’t remember which, they’re all the same to me) on Facebook a number of months back and her response was “I work in the medical field so I would know.” A quick glance at her profile and it turns out she was a receptionist at a f***ing chiropractor’s office! As in, someone who would know little more about medicine than anyone else.

You can find a medical professional anywhere to tell you whatever craziness you believe. Look at youtube. That's a haven for some crackpot renegade doctor to "spill the beans on the conspiracy." Its in a lot of ways, so much worse. At least you can understand how a non-medical person in a certain environment could gravitate towards that thinking, but when a doctor does its super sad and unforgivable. 

The problem here is that basic factual arguments are now somehow become political. "Well, that's my view." When did the science behind masks and the science behind vaccines become political? It's literally not. Its about scientific evidence. 

1 minute ago, dta1984 said:

It's delusional to think personal attacks or any other bs threats is what will convince someone to change their stance on any given subject.  Again, piss poor people skills. It's no wonder some anti covid vaxers won't change their mind.

People have time and time again tried to attempt to show you the logic error in your arguments against the vaccines and against the masks. You are not persuadable. Your thinking is usually on the edge of conspiracy theorist.  It's been like this from the beginning. 

Just now, schoeppeya said:

@dta1984 has at least ATTEMPTED, repeatedly, to provide backing for his positions, rather than resorting to personal attacks when he doesn't have an answer. His information may be wrong or misguided sometimes, but he at least shares what he is looking at, and has allowed himself to be corrected several times, including by you.

I take issue with the "blood on your hands", anti American, "Americans are selfish" bullshit. Because it is bullshit. When somebody has to resort to personal attacks, it means they haven't actually thought through why they think the way they do about something. You haven't called out a single person spewing emotional garbage in this thread. Why? 

Finally--I have a bias, because I am human. My bias is towards individual choice. I own that bias and am here defending it.

It's so ridiculous. What the hell is a hardcore pro-vaxer? When the hell did vaccines become so damn political? it's ****ing public health. 

3 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

Or the trifecta, all three at once. 

lol @ defending this shit. What is wrong with you?