WestMichigan

93° air temp and 74° DP here.  It is definitely a hot and muggy day.

16 hours ago, michsnowfreak said:

Final

Interesting how the stretch of AN snow seems to stop at the Indiana state line and Lake Michigan.

1 hour ago, IWXwx said:

FWA set a record low this morning of 29°, beating 1946's 31°. We have one more chance of frost tonight before I can put the garden sheets away.

Can't come soon enough.  I am covering close to 1000 sq ft every night it gets this cold.  Survived a hard freeze last week and fortunately only got down to 36 last night so it was a waste of time.  Better safe than sorry though.  As you said, tonight should be the last night.

Checking out of this thread.  If you aren't for status quo and bow before the government, you aren't really welcome here other than the be told you are an idiot or your point doesn't matter. Every once in a while I see a glimmer of hope that maybe there can be more than one side of the debate only to see that dashed over the next 47 posts.  Have a great day and I will see you when there is some weather to talk about.

Too many posts to quote over the last couple pages, but why is it the federal government's responsibility to make sure each state is looked after?  What about each state's governor taking some heat for not being prepared instead of all 50 pointing to Washington?  We have a central federal government, but each state is also managed by there own governmental system.  Seems to me like this is the pot calling the kettle black blaming the President and Washington DC for failing when they could have seen to it that their own state was prepared instead of looking elsewhere for help.  Much easier to blame someone else.

1 hour ago, Jonger said:

We had a poster try to use the old, "tell that to the X number of people who lost loved ones" card.

That's a fair comparison. 

Which is why I referred to the OP in my post.  @RobertSul either missed that or disregarded it.

30 minutes ago, RobertSul said:

Under ordinary circumstances you’re absolutely right, but these are extraordinary circumstances. Also, Michigan had 2,000 cases a day for a while, yesterday they were down to under 200, so something’s working.

There was a problem with yesterday's numbers so that is too low.  It is * on the michigan.gov website.  They had a problem with their computer program collecting and aggregating the data.

53 minutes ago, RobertSul said:

If someone drunk driving on the roads led to three other drunk drivers on the roads, and each of those led to another 1-3 drunk drivers on the road and so on, then you’d have a point.

Likewise, if COVID-19 was not contagious and was regulated to isolated incidents like in your examples, then we certainly wouldn’t have gone through all this trouble.

isolated?  Per NHTSA drunk driving accounts for over 10,000 deaths a year.  That isn't isolated.  Not COVID19 levels, but tell those families drinking alcohol is ok and that death doesn't matter.  Same reasoning as the OP.

7 hours ago, Malacka11 said:

I wonder exactly what percentage of the people who have lost family members to this illness hold the opinion that 0.02% isn't a high enough death toll to warrant our current preventative measures. 

I am not minimizing your point but as others have already said why not ban alcohol because of the drunk driving deaths?  Why not drive 55 because it will save lives?  Why not stop construction because of accidents on site that lead to death?  Why not ban nearly all fatty/sugary/salty/cholesterol laden food?  Why not ...?  You can say this about every death that has some cause that is preventable by altering our actions?  But would you want to live in that society?  This is the current hot topic but we don't say this about every other thing in our society that causes a preventable death.  Just offering a counter point to what you say.  The deaths are horrible don't get me wrong and come back with a reply saying that.

On 5/2/2020 at 6:08 PM, HighTechEE said:

Agreed, my avatar pic is Feb '14 at Ash Cave in Hocking Hills, SE Ohio, that 85ft water fall was 5ft from being froze all the way to the top. The only time it froze all the way to the top was Jan/Feb of '78.

One of my favorite places in Ohio.  I went down there many times in the winter when I used to live in Ohio.

On 4/30/2020 at 4:52 PM, Stebo said:

Do you have some sourcing on those numbers?

https://www.christianpost.com/voices/suicide-hotline-sees-8000-increase-due-to-covid-19.html

https://abc7.com/suicide-hotline-calls-coronavirus-covid19-los-angeles/6117099/

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/mental-health/494170-how-does-the-coronavirus-pandemic-affect-suicide

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coronavirus-pandemic-creates-suicide-risk-this-could-last-years/ar-BB13kSOE

There are varying numbers in these articles but all showing a large increase.

Mental health and suicide hotlines are up over 900% since this started.  Where is the balance between every life we can save from COVID-19 is worth the pain versus we don't care about the other lives being lost to suicide.  Somewhere there has to be a balance where some freedom is ok to help with one end of the spectrum while not getting the other end completely out of whack.  The media seems to be ignoring one class of death because it isn't COVID-19 and that is all that matters.

8 minutes ago, Stebo said:

My thought is pulling back on some recreational things, with work opening up closer to May 15th or after Memorial Day.

I agree but also think she might go a little farther.  Don't think it will be anywhere near a free for all but I suspect there will be limited things open up such a landscaping, nurseries/greenhouses, workers who are solo or maybe teams but not large groups.  Just my thoughts.  I guess we will see in a little over a week.

Quite the turn around between March and April relative to average.

What is up with all the name calling in here.  Anyone who doesn't agree with the stay at home order is a moron, idiot, <insert derogatory name here>.  We can disagree buy why all the name calling?

12 minutes ago, Chicago Storm said:

Still the same leveled steady increases each day, with both cases and deaths.

Sun: 20,852 cases and 720 deaths total. (+1,293 & +81)

Mon: 22,025 cases and 794 deaths total. (+1,173 & +74)

Tue: 23,247 cases and 868 deaths total. (+1,222 & +74)

Wed: 24,593 cases and 948 deaths total. (+1,346 & +80)

Thur: 25,733 cases and 1,072 deaths total. (+1,140 & +125)

I am a little confused.  Compared with your post from last 4/12 the cases per day are down a little.  Nothing dramatic but down about 150/day on average.  I agree deaths are ticking up.

It has been snowing all morning here, but no accumulation.  Melting as fast as it falls.

14 hours ago, UMB WX said:

 

Canada really stepped up to the plate for their citizens. all levels of govt are listening to their public health officials and their recommendations - along with strong collaboration between the federal govt and the provinces as well as between the provinces themselves.  govt implemented fiscal measures to help canadian citizens and businesses who've been impacted by Covid19 get by for at least 4 months. there is a strong sense of community and feeling that they are all in this together.  

Then there is US. incompetent leadership, anti-science and this horrific prioritization of the economic well-being of the .01% over the the health and lives of the 99%

one time payment of $1200??  We spent trillions on useless wars.. spent trillions in 2008 bailing out banks and other industries for the 2008 crisis.. spent billions bailing out airlines a few years back that took the funds to buy back stocks instead of investing in their workforce, ect.  and the list of corporate bailouts go's a mile long. yet when it comes down to it, is unwilling to spend barely anything helping out its own citizens who lost their jobs due to a pandemic?

If you like some country better than here why not move?  Everyone is constantly telling people to move north if they want more snow.  Same thing here.  If you want a completely different government move.  There is no sense staying in a miserable place when there is somewhere else that offers something far superior to what you have now.

1 minute ago, sokolow said:

Of course we have a choice, or, of course our elected officials have a choice.  They could cut every adult a 1000 dollar check every week of the crisis, instead of just once, maybe, if it gets there, in ??? October ???.  For people still working in essential jobs we call it hazard pay.  We could suspend rent and mortgage payments.  We could just say now everyone’s enrolled in Tricare.  And there’s so many problems with all that but the correct answer is “who gives a fü¢k we’ll sort it out later, we’re doing a bailout for normal people”

 

There aren't enough tax dollars available even if we taxed at ridiculous rates to support something like that.  Unless you want the government to say give me 100% of your money and I will determine how much you get back then explain how that would work?  That is unless you want to switch to an entirely different form of government and in that case I'm going to pass on that.

1 minute ago, Chicago Storm said:

0z NAM with nearly 20" in S IA.

It's the NAM, cut it in half.

1 hour ago, michsnowfreak said:

 I love Michigan but this minority that protested at the Capitol were pure idiots

That minority came largely from a Facebook group that represents approximately 350000 Michiganders.  While still a minority by definition that is over 3.5% of the state.  That is a pretty good group of people banding together to make a statement.  They are not pure idiots and not stupid as people here are saying.  They want a fair chance to earn a living just like you and me and again as I have said several times before a little common sense.  This virus is nasty.  I agree but is the cure worse than the symptoms?  I can't answer that for you but these people obviously made their choice.  This is a free country and people can make choices.  Denigrating one side constantly does no good.  Let's give them a chance to make their voice heard just like you feel you have a right for your voice to be heard.

46 minutes ago, Stebo said:

Stop thinking about money over lives, this isn't that hard. We have over 30k people dead in this country in a month and a half with many actions done to prevent the spread, what do you think would happen if none of those actions happened? You could easily take that number and triple it or even more.

Speculation at best.  I know there have been many wild predictions but we have no idea what really would have happened.  We can all agree it would have been different for sure.

Death rate is a lagging indicator.  It will go down soon since there are clearly fewer people getting sick.

52 minutes ago, Stebo said:

If you can't understand why keeping the government running I don't know what to say. As for your neighbor I hope he has filed for unemployment like everyone else that is laid off and that supplements his income lost until things reopen some time next month. Most press conferences people have been apart at least at the state/city levels. National level is pretty obvious why that is that case.

What makes a government clerk any more important than a construction worker. Without either our society wouldn’t function like it does. The problem with unemployment is it doesn’t pay the bills. And where are they getting the money?  People aren’t working so it isn’t income taxes. We are just mortgaging our future. I know you want to get in a fight with me but all I want is common sense restrictions that are equally applied. This isn’t a disease to ignore. I am not saying that. Lots of people have it and many have died. I am not disputing that but how does a single self employed construction worker have to quit working when he is working by himself in an unoccupied home?  Like I said apply common sense and people will be less irritated. 

44 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Lightfoot taking a pic with the woman who cut her hair was definitely a mistake on her part.  I don't know what the circumstances were (did the person come to Lightfoot's house, did Lightfoot go there, etc) but it just gives people ammo.  Next time maybe get your hair cut in secret Lori.  

Or better yet don’t get it cut like the rest of us.