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Texas/Oklahoma Discussion & Obs Thread 2021


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5 minutes ago, vwgrrc said:

Same on 18z NAM as well. It's now only 33hr out but the QPF almost doubled. Is this even right??

It's also notable the FR band seems moving NW quite a bit compared to 12z. Does this mean it may put DFW out of the core area is very worth watching out for!

The 18z does show more ice for Collin/Denton counties, but in fact it shows less for everywhere else.

That said, it's still a significant amount of ice (0.50"+).

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2 minutes ago, vwgrrc said:

18z GFS mostly unchanged for DFW, about 1" of freezing rain on the eastern half and less on the west side. Crazy even Austin will be under some significant icing.

18z GFS showed an increase in the ice amounts for everywhere except Collin County (where it's about the same).

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The NSSL is just plain ugly.

Widespread 0.75"+ of ice, and that's right from the start (no rain), and then a good 1"+ in QPF of sleet on top of it (sleet is typically assumed to have a 3:1 ratio, so that translates into 3" of sleet).

That would probably shut thing down until Saturday, when it finally melts.

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The NSSL is just plain ugly.
Widespread 0.75"+ of ice, and that's right from the start (no rain), and then a good 1"+ in QPF of sleet on top of it (sleet is typically assumed to have a 3:1 ratio, so that translates into 3" of sleet).
That would probably shut thing down until Saturday, when it finally melts.
Dumb question but what's NSSL?

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk

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It begins...

URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE
National Weather Service Fort Worth TX
858 PM CST Tue Feb 1 2022

TXZ091-092-100>102-115>117-129-021200-
/O.UPG.KFWD.WS.A.0001.220203T0000Z-220204T0000Z/
/O.NEW.KFWD.WS.W.0001.220202T2100Z-220204T0000Z/
Montague-Cooke-Young-Jack-Wise-Stephens-Palo Pinto-Parker-
Eastland-
Including the cities of Bowie, Nocona, Gainesville, Graham,
Olney, Jacksboro, Decatur, Bridgeport, Breckenridge,
Mineral Wells, Weatherford, Briar, Cisco, Eastland, Ranger,
and Gorman
858 PM CST Tue Feb 1 2022

...WINTER STORM WARNING IN EFFECT FROM 3 PM WEDNESDAY TO 6 PM CST
THURSDAY...

* WHAT...A transition from rain to freezing rain then to sleet and
  snow. Total snow and sleet accumulations of 2 to 4 inches and
  ice accumulations of around one tenth to two tenths of an inch.

* WHERE...Portions of north central Texas.

* WHEN...From 3 PM Wednesday to 6 PM CST Thursday.

* IMPACTS...Travel will be dangerous. The hazardous conditions
  will impact the morning and evening commute on Thursday. The
  cold wind chills as low as 5 below zero could result in
  hypothermia if precautions are not taken. Power outages and tree
  damage will be possible due to ice.


PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

If you must travel, keep an extra flashlight, food, and water in
your vehicle in case of an emergency.

The latest road conditions for Texas can be found at
drivetexas.org.

&&

$$

URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE
National Weather Service Fort Worth TX
858 PM CST Tue Feb 1 2022

TXZ093>095-103>107-118>121-130>134-141>145-156-157-021200-
/O.UPG.KFWD.WS.A.0001.220203T0000Z-220204T0000Z/
/O.NEW.KFWD.WS.W.0001.220203T0000Z-220204T0000Z/
Grayson-Fannin-Lamar-Denton-Collin-Hunt-Delta-Hopkins-Tarrant-
Dallas-Rockwall-Kaufman-Erath-Hood-Somervell-Johnson-Ellis-
Comanche-Mills-Hamilton-Bosque-Hill-Lampasas-Coryell-
Including the cities of Sherman, Denison, Bonham, Paris,
Carrollton, Denton, Lewisville, Flower Mound, Plano, McKinney,
Allen, Frisco, Greenville, Commerce, Cooper, Sulphur Springs,
Fort Worth, Arlington, Dallas, Rockwall, Heath, Terrell, Kaufman,
Forney, Stephenville, Dublin, Granbury, Oak Trail Shores,
Glen Rose, Cleburne, Burleson, Waxahachie, Ennis, Midlothian,
Comanche, De Leon, Goldthwaite, Hamilton, Hico, Clifton,
Meridian, Valley Mills, Hillsboro, Lampasas, Copperas Cove,
and Gatesville
858 PM CST Tue Feb 1 2022

...WINTER STORM WARNING IN EFFECT FROM 6 PM WEDNESDAY TO 6 PM CST
THURSDAY...

* WHAT...A transition from rain to freezing rain then to sleet and
  snow. Total snow accumulations of up to two inches and ice
  accumulations of two tenths to half an inch.

* WHERE...Portions of north central and northeast Texas.

* WHEN...From 6 PM Wednesday to 6 PM CST Thursday.

* IMPACTS...Travel will be dangerous. The hazardous conditions
  will impact the morning and evening commute on Thursday. The
  cold wind chills as low as zero could result in hypothermia if
  precautions are not taken. Power outages and tree damage are
  likely due to ice.


PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

If you must travel, keep an extra flashlight, food, and water in
your vehicle in case of an emergency.

The latest road conditions for Texas can be found at
drivetexas.org.

&&

$$
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15 minutes ago, cheese007 said:
It begins...

URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE
National Weather Service Fort Worth TX
858 PM CST Tue Feb 1 2022

TXZ091-092-100>102-115>117-129-021200-
/O.UPG.KFWD.WS.A.0001.220203T0000Z-220204T0000Z/
/O.NEW.KFWD.WS.W.0001.220202T2100Z-220204T0000Z/
Montague-Cooke-Young-Jack-Wise-Stephens-Palo Pinto-Parker-
Eastland-
Including the cities of Bowie, Nocona, Gainesville, Graham,
Olney, Jacksboro, Decatur, Bridgeport, Breckenridge,
Mineral Wells, Weatherford, Briar, Cisco, Eastland, Ranger,
and Gorman
858 PM CST Tue Feb 1 2022

...WINTER STORM WARNING IN EFFECT FROM 3 PM WEDNESDAY TO 6 PM CST
THURSDAY...

* WHAT...A transition from rain to freezing rain then to sleet and
  snow. Total snow and sleet accumulations of 2 to 4 inches and
  ice accumulations of around one tenth to two tenths of an inch.

* WHERE...Portions of north central Texas.

* WHEN...From 3 PM Wednesday to 6 PM CST Thursday.

* IMPACTS...Travel will be dangerous. The hazardous conditions
  will impact the morning and evening commute on Thursday. The
  cold wind chills as low as 5 below zero could result in
  hypothermia if precautions are not taken. Power outages and tree
  damage will be possible due to ice.


PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

If you must travel, keep an extra flashlight, food, and water in
your vehicle in case of an emergency.

The latest road conditions for Texas can be found at
drivetexas.org.

&&

$$

URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE
National Weather Service Fort Worth TX
858 PM CST Tue Feb 1 2022

TXZ093>095-103>107-118>121-130>134-141>145-156-157-021200-
/O.UPG.KFWD.WS.A.0001.220203T0000Z-220204T0000Z/
/O.NEW.KFWD.WS.W.0001.220203T0000Z-220204T0000Z/
Grayson-Fannin-Lamar-Denton-Collin-Hunt-Delta-Hopkins-Tarrant-
Dallas-Rockwall-Kaufman-Erath-Hood-Somervell-Johnson-Ellis-
Comanche-Mills-Hamilton-Bosque-Hill-Lampasas-Coryell-
Including the cities of Sherman, Denison, Bonham, Paris,
Carrollton, Denton, Lewisville, Flower Mound, Plano, McKinney,
Allen, Frisco, Greenville, Commerce, Cooper, Sulphur Springs,
Fort Worth, Arlington, Dallas, Rockwall, Heath, Terrell, Kaufman,
Forney, Stephenville, Dublin, Granbury, Oak Trail Shores,
Glen Rose, Cleburne, Burleson, Waxahachie, Ennis, Midlothian,
Comanche, De Leon, Goldthwaite, Hamilton, Hico, Clifton,
Meridian, Valley Mills, Hillsboro, Lampasas, Copperas Cove,
and Gatesville
858 PM CST Tue Feb 1 2022

...WINTER STORM WARNING IN EFFECT FROM 6 PM WEDNESDAY TO 6 PM CST
THURSDAY...

* WHAT...A transition from rain to freezing rain then to sleet and
  snow. Total snow accumulations of up to two inches and ice
  accumulations of two tenths to half an inch.

* WHERE...Portions of north central and northeast Texas.

* WHEN...From 6 PM Wednesday to 6 PM CST Thursday.

* IMPACTS...Travel will be dangerous. The hazardous conditions
  will impact the morning and evening commute on Thursday. The
  cold wind chills as low as zero could result in hypothermia if
  precautions are not taken. Power outages and tree damage are
  likely due to ice.


PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

If you must travel, keep an extra flashlight, food, and water in
your vehicle in case of an emergency.

The latest road conditions for Texas can be found at
drivetexas.org.

&&

$$

Will have to say the ice accumulation in this warning seems a lot less than what most models are suggesting. Not sure if they see something that we don't

Meanwhile, 0z CMC is coming in. Even more FR and sleet than its previous runs. Crazy!

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28 minutes ago, vwgrrc said:

Will have to say the ice accumulation in this warning seems a lot less than what most models are suggesting. Not sure if they see something that we don't

Meanwhile, 0z CMC is coming in. Even more FR and sleet than its previous runs. Crazy!

FWD mentioned in the short term that they nudged down ice totals and explained their reasoning there

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41 minutes ago, cheese007 said:

FWD mentioned in the short term that they nudged down ice totals and explained their reasoning there

Yes. Sounds like their reasoning for that is the latest NAM suggesting a slower cold air front so that there's a smaller time window for FR to fall in DFW. But my impression for this type of event is the models normally underestimate the progression of cold air thus the surface temp will look warmer than what actually pans out. Maybe that is only the case for GFS not NAM?

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19 minutes ago, TXHawk88 said:

For what it’s worth 0z & 6z HRRR have really bumped up the snow totals for DFW and brought freezing rain and sleet totals down a bit.

CAE30DDB-4BDB-49E1-8CA4-5BA054214B0F.jpeg

There are growing hints that this could be a snow event for DFW though I would still lean towards a primarily sleet event.

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I think Nowcast on actual P-types.  Looking at 6Z GFS, major ice versus heavy sleet in DFW is a degree difference in temps and a small difference in the depth of the below freezing surface layer.  Then a nice snow for the scenery but if there is half an inch of ice, nobody who has a choice will be driving and some trees will come down on electric lines.

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Verbatim, 6Z GFS is more ice or sleet than snow.  I think the hard to answer question is ice or sleet.  The 3 or 5 inches of snow at the end will make it look nice.  6Z 3km NAM is a little ice, then a fair amount of sleet, followed by a little snow.  That would be better case scenario but too early to lock in.

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000
FXUS64 KFWD 021210
AFDFWD

Area Forecast Discussion
National Weather Service Fort Worth TX
610 AM CST Wed Feb 2 2022

...New Short Term, Aviation...

.SHORT TERM... /NEW/
Update:

The cold front is moving into far Western North Texas at this hour
and is outperforming guidance by coming in colder than previously
thought. Freezing rain is currently being reported as far south as
Fort Sill, OK. Expect the cold air to barrel south through the day.
The forecast was adjusted to reflect this change by moving up the
onset of winter precipitation. We now have sleet and freezing rain
starting over Montague/Young/Jack Counties as early as 10-11 AM.
The tail-end of the evening rush hour over the far NW of the
Metroplex is now likely to be impacted by winter precip late this
afternoon. The other result of the cooler temperatures is that
less ice is forecast over Western North Texas. While there will be
less ice, there will be more snow and have increased our high end
snow forecast to range between 4-6 inches. We remain confident of
a significant ice storm occurring tonight, although there may be
more sleet than we previously thought due to the cooler temps. The
remainder of the forecast discussion below still applies.
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7 minutes ago, Powerball said:

It seems the Hi-Res models are struggling with how the handle the effect (if any) of DFW's UHI on surface temps. They could be onto something, but we'll have to find out.

That 12km NAM run is catastrophic. That would have to be amongst the worst ice storms in Dallas' history.

Overall though, the trend is not good. On the whole, models have definitely increased the ice accumulations.

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16 minutes ago, Powerball said:

It seems the Hi-Res models are struggling with how the handle the effect (if any) of DFW's UHI on surface temps. They could be onto something, but we'll have to find out.

That 12km NAM run is catastrophic. That would have to be amongst the worst ice storms in Dallas' history.

Regardless, there's pretty much a consensus across the models that Collin County will get a tons ice unfortunately. That's really concerning given how populated Allen/McKinney/Frisco area is. Most of our friends are in these 3 cities and got hit hard in last year's poweroutage.

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12 minutes ago, vwgrrc said:

Regardless, there's pretty much a consensus across the models that Collin County will get a tons ice unfortunately. That's really concerning given how populated Allen/McKinney/Frisco area is. Most of our friends are in these 3 cities and got hit hard in last year's poweroutage.

I got lucky last year to not lose power (I still don't know how exactly the grids work - I know I'm near a fire station but some people I know in a similar situation still lost power). I've been following this thread and consider me quite worried as well.

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26 minutes ago, TexMexWx said:

I got lucky last year to not lose power (I still don't know how exactly the grids work - I know I'm near a fire station but some people I know in a similar situation still lost power). I've been following this thread and consider me quite worried as well.

Well. there's a key difference right? Last year was a controlled power outage because of supply shortage. This time looks like powerline may not be able to holdup with the ice in some area. that's a bigger issue if it does happen because no one controls that and it takes longer to fix.

Edit: 12z GFS even more QPF for Collin County. This trend is bad.

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1 hour ago, vwgrrc said:

Well. there's a key difference right? Last year was a controlled power outage because of supply shortage. This time looks like powerline may not be able to holdup with the ice in some area. that's a bigger issue if it does happen because no one controls that and it takes longer to fix.

Edit: 12z GFS even more QPF for Collin County. This trend is bad.

If I'm in far northwest Dallas county and didn't lose power last year, should I head up north to McKinney where my dad has a generator even though the icing is likely to be worse there?

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