J.Spin

Uh, oh – you are NH and not VT though, so possibly no Subaru?

Yeah, skiing ice, especially steep ice, isn’t just “unfun” or irritating (although you can find people who would argue this), it’s also quite dangerous. See Ginx’s comment for an example, and I’ve actually had to save friends from similar “slide for life” encounters in the past. Sure, skis have metal edges, but even experienced mountaineers are smart enough to know not to go on steeply pitched ice without crampons and an axe. Yes, many expert skiers see skiing ice as a “badge of honor” sort of thing, and that’s to each their own of course, but I ski for fun/recreation/exercise etc., so if it’s not fun, I’m not going to force myself to do it. The analogy I always use for skiing hard snow/ice is like going swimming on a cold, windy day, with water temperatures in the 50s F. Sure, you can do it, but what’s the point? For typical, high-traffic, lift-served terrain around here, I find there’s generally an inverse correlation between steepness and snow quality – so much more pressure is applied on steep turns that it just beats down and or scrapes away the snow that much quicker. Obviously, when conditions are really good, or you’re in low traffic or backcountry terrain, you can get both steep terrain and high quality snow if you want, but for typical lift-served terrain, it’s often a compromise between the two. Everyone has their own personal preference when it comes to these opposing forces, but given my preference, I’ll typically sacrifice some pitch for better quality snow. After thinking about your experience at Cannon today, it got me thinking about the nearby NH ski areas around you (see map below), and if I had to rank them in terms of typical snow quality based on both personal experience and what I read, I think I’d go as follows, going from lowest to highest: 1) Cannon 2) Wildcat 3) Bretton Woods 4) Balsams So, yeah, I think that on average, Cannon is probably going to have the roughest snow quality of the areas near you. It’s unfortunate, but I think Balsams isn’t even running their one main lift anymore as the resort is in limbo regarding plans for a bigger resort, but from everything I’ve read (high snowfall, low skier traffic, etc.) I think they would offer some really nice snow surfaces. There’s also Black Mountain as possibly the next closest in proximity to you on that map? I’ve seen the mountain, but haven’t skied there, and I don’t see enough reports to get a sense for their snow quality. They are a bit lower in elevation, so that may affect their snowfall/snow quality to some degree, but folks who know that area can probably fill us in.

Yeah, Cannon in not exactly famous for the quality of its skiing surfaces, unless you’re a racer looking for something to sink your insanely sharp edges into without any loose snow to throw you the slightest bit off your line. I think there are a number of reasons for this: 1) Relatively speaking, I don’t think the area gets a lot of snow. 2) The mountain gets pretty harsh weather, with plenty of wind. 3) For a mountain location in NNE, it really seems like they just don’t get a lot of snow. Yes, I mentioned the snowfall twice, LOL, but I think it’s a big factor. I got lucky the last time I was there and I think we had about six inches of fresh snow to ski, but take a look at the recent opinion article below: Opinion: Cannon Mountain, NH Has the Most Underrated Terrain in New England Obviously it’s opinion, but I bet most skiers in the know would agree with this statement from the article: “The problem is despite being one of the coldest locations in New England, Cannon often gets the shaft from Mother Nature. The resort can only claim an average annual snowfall of 160″, approximately 200″ shy of Jay Peak. As a result, Cannon doesn’t often reach its full potential and show the world its world-class terrain. If this mountain was located in Vermont, it would be in the elite company of Jay Peak, Smugglers Notch, and Stowe. Unfortunately, it is in central New Hampshire and is a sheet of ice more often than not.” The mountain does really have some impressively steep terrain that easily rivals the steep stuff at other resorts in the region, so that’s fantastic. But the steeper the terrain, the more snow it takes to appropriately cover it. If you don’t get the prodigious natural snow needed to cover terrain like that, you’re either going to have to cover it with icy manmade snow (which only becomes icier with use because steep terrain requires harder edging and thus results in more scraping) or you leave it with incredibly boney, dangerous, natural snow coverage, and you’ll need to have it closed a significant amount of time anyway. Just think about the 160” annual snowfall quoted in that article though – I believe that’s less annual snowfall than you probably get at your house. It’s a 4,000’+ peak in NNE, so how in the heck do they not get the snow? I’m sure the forum meteorologists and NH locals can comment on why the area doesn’t get more snowfall relative to a lot of other mountain locations, and it would be interesting to hear that discussion. Also note, you were just there today. It’s not as if we’re in one of those exclusively Northern Greens patterns this week. A lot of NNE is getting in on these daily snows, so if a resort doesn’t have some seriously kick ass conditions right now, there’s probably something suboptimal with respect to their mountain climate. They’re probably in a spot that misses out on a lot of that NNE magic. Again, if you get some fresh snow, Cannon can be great (see my Cannon trip report), and the Mittersill area is some really cool sidecountry (although that unfortunately might not be the case anymore because I think they rejuvenated the running of a lift there?). Some people are blissfully oblivious to icy trail conditions, and it may not even matter to them, but based on your comments about today, you obviously aren’t one of them at this point. I’d say follow the advice of that article and watch for when Cannon does get snow to go and have some fun on their great terrain. I’m sure there are forum members in here or in the ski thread who frequent the mountain and may be able to give you the best advice on when to go, or perhaps what parts of the mountain are better than others with respect to the ice factor.

You know, I’ve been thinking about this post for the past couple of days, and when I first saw it, my immediate thought was, “Well, you don’t need to worry about those other groups, you’re in the Dendrite group”. Did you used to have something like that in your signature, or was it somebody else? There’s always that running discussion in the forum about where the demarcations for the SNE, CNE, and NNE regions belong, and obviously it’s a point of contention because there’s no perfect answer. I think CNE is the hardest to define (I haven’t even found something to work as a representative CNE “link” yet), because at the most basic level, you’ve got this northern border of MA that one can just use to define SNE as RI, CT, and MA, and NNE as VT, NH, and ME if you’re just going to split the region in two. Or, it looks like you can consider SNE as whatever is south of the CT/RI/MA border, then I guess MA is CNE, and NNE is north of that. A main issue for the NNE area is that proximity to the major mountain ranges drastically changes the complexion of the climate, and the effects of latitude (certainly with respect to snowfall/precipitation) really breaks down. Latitude, or even a combination of latitude and longitude to impart distance from the coast and incorporate modest elevation increases moving away from the coastal plain, works pretty well until you run into some of the major mountain ranges. Once you get to the major mountains, then a lot of things break down, and you’ve got these unique microclimates. In terms of snowfall, many of the mountain valleys around here along the spine average more snow than even a place like Caribou, despite the lower latitude. It’s hard to argue that you guys in VT, NH, and ME outside the major NNE mountain ranges are somehow CNE (and that’s essentially impossible for someone like Tamarack with his latitude), but the climate is definitely different without the prominent mountain effects on weather/climate. There’s definitely been an uptick in NNE mountain dwellers in the forum in recent months, but I don’t know at what point the area would be worth its own thread – the whole NNE thread is still pretty small potatoes relative to the main threads in the forum.

We just traveled back from the Lebanon/Hanover area, and it was snowing the whole way, so this seems to be hitting much of NNE with at least some snow. The heaviest snowfall we saw was actually as were setting out from the Connecticut River Valley/West Lebanon area into Vermont, and counter to what one typically sees, the snowfall was lighter through the higher elevations of I-89. Naturally, we could have been leaving during an uptick/burst, and it’s always hard to make solid comparisons among areas when you’re traveling in both time and space. Snowfall ramped up a bit as we approached Waterbury, and then a bit more as we headed farther west to the house. I’d still call the snowfall intensity we saw here light to perhaps moderate, but the flakes were larger at our site relative to what we saw along the route. Obviously snow growth has been quite potent here along the spine with the accumulation thus far coming in at almost a 50 to 1 ratio.

Good instincts! I just got back to the house and a 2:00 P.M. liquid analysis revealed a 48.6:1 ratio here. That’s from a 3.4” stack, and combining and averaging two snow cores, so it’s certainly a decent sampling of the first part of this event.

Event totals: 3.4” Snow/0.07” L.E. Details from the 2:00 P.M. Waterbury observations: New Snow: 3.4 inches New Liquid: 0.07 inches Snow/Water Ratio: 48.6 Snow Density: 2.1% H2O Temperature: 18.7 F Sky: Light Snow (5 to 20 mm flakes) Snow at the stake: 17.5 inches

We’re out at Dartmouth for an appointment at the moment, but I can see on our webcam that we’ve picked up 1-2” of snow at this point. Since we drove to Dartmouth earlier, I can pass along a few observations from the trip. Snow started up at the house at some point in the 8:00 A.M. - 8:30 A.M. range, and snowfall was fairly light as we were heading out. The snowfall stayed with us at that light intensity for most of the trip, although I’m sure it was ramping up somewhat back at the house. In terms of snowpack, I didn’t really notice any obvious differences in depth along much of I-89, which is pretty typical because a lot of the interstate east of Montpelier stays at fairly high elevations with good snowpack preservation. And as PF points out, once you have a certain depth of snowpack that it’s covering most vegetation, the increases or decreases aren’t that obvious. The snowpack decreased substantially once we hit the Sharon area, which I guess is starting to get down into the Connecticut River Valley? The snowpack dropped to a few inches, and here in Lebanon there’s just an inch or so on the ground. It is snowing here in Lebanon, and although it’s just been very light with small flakes, those have increased now to 10-15 mm flakes.

Definitely. When I arrived up at Bolton’s Timberline area this morning, I knew it was going to be good – in the parking lot is was snowing big fat flakes, it was in the 20s F, and there wasn’t a trace of wind. I guess one could make an argument for sunshine being the primo setup vs. the flakes, but I’m definitely partial to the potential for constant refreshing of the surfaces when it’s dumping. The base there is at 1,500’, and up at 2,500’ there was a touch of wind, but nothing too serious – all around the mountain you could just see the upslope snow stacking up on everything. Even the deciduous branches were just loaded with snow, and it was too such a degree that you couldn’t see a thing through areas of the forest that normally let you catch glimpses of adjoining trails. The snowfall rate picked up to something in the 1-2”/hr range, and it was intensely quiet. Between the snow piled on the trees, the air filled with huge, fat flakes, and the ground covered with powder, sounds were muffled to almost nothing. I headed back up with the boys for another session in the afternoon, and while it continued to snow, it was more in the ½-1”/hr range, so certainly decent, but not quite up to the level of what I’d experienced in the morning. That was until we were leaving though – when we were packing up at the car, the snowfall rate was back up in that 1-2”/hr range again and combined with light heading more toward dusk, visibility dropped way down. A few shots from the mountain today:

That’s great – Waterbury is in a ridiculously good spot to hit a lot of great skiing around here – you can hit Stowe, ‘bush, MRG, and Bolton in roughly 30 minutes or less, and there’s tons of convenient backcountry skiing nearby as well. The convenience of being out here in the mountains is just huge with respect to skiing – I was up at Bolton for a session this morning, and then came home and headed back up with the boys for a few more runs in the afternoon. Granted, we’re really close to Bolton, but I never did that sort of thing when I lived in the Champlain Valley. You’re typically looking at a minimum of 45 minutes (a bit less for Bolton) to get to those resorts from the Burlington area, and being out here just lowers the threshold (drive time, gas, overall time commitment, etc.) enough, that you can fit in many more sessions during a typical season.

I swear I read in the BTV NWS AFD just a couple days ago that Wednesday was the “break” day with respect to snowfall before it picked up again on Thursday. Today was pretty darned snowy though – we had roughly 3 inches at the house and Bolton Valley looked to pick up at least double that amount, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they got something similar to Mansfield.

Yeah, snowpack depth was 6.0 on the morning of the 16th, so it’s jumped right up in the past several days. The top is obviously quite fluffy now from all this upslope snow though, so it will be settling with time. We had about 2” of L.E. in the snowpack when I analyzed it yesterday morning for CoCoRaHS, and we’re probably in the 2.25” range now. NOHRSC modeling for our site (plot below) seems to be overestimating the snowpack SWE a bit (dark blue), and I think that’s because the model assumes we banked all of the liquid from the front end of Winter Storm Malcolm in the snowpack. My empirical analyses don’t quite jive with that, and I can only assume that maybe a half inch of liquid percolated down through the snowpack while we were getting that very wet snow or snow/rain mix. That existing snowpack was fairly powdery/granular/porous vs. fully consolidated/refrozen, and maybe the modeling just didn’t have the density/consistency correct. Modeling is matching the snowpack depth (light blue) changes reasonably well though.

Yes, that was the snowfall during the 12 PM to 6 PM block today at our site.

Event totals: 2.9” Snow/0.12” L.E. Details from the 6:00 P.M. Waterbury observations: New Snow: 0.7 inches New Liquid: 0.02 inches Snow/Water Ratio: 35.0 Snow Density: 2.9% H2O Temperature: 14.0 F Sky: Light Snow (5 to 10 mm flakes) Snow at the stake: 15.0 inches

I actually think the text statement in and of itself works fine at base level, and most folks intentionally living anywhere in NNE would probably agree. With the mountain component as an image, I think it functions as a bit of an accent or add-on. Obviously, if you’re into mountain weather, mountain recreation, mountain culture, mountain views, etc., then being in the mountains of NNE can sort of work as the icing on the cake, and it can make the NNE experience even better. But not all of NNE is mountains of course, so whoever designed the shirt was pretty astute in that regard, sort of along the lines of “Hey, NNE is great… and we have some cool mountains too if you’re into that.”

Well, we do have shirts if Phin needs one…

Yeah, the BTV NWS has a Special Weather Statement out for heavy snow over here as well, and you can see it on the advisories map. As you’ve said, the stuff that hits here often heads over to your neck of the woods next. Over here we can see that next pulse of moisture coming into the area on the radar. Special Weather Statement National Weather Service Burlington VT 1242 PM EST Wed Jan 20 2021 NYZ035-VTZ005-008-009-017-018-201830- Eastern Essex-Eastern Chittenden-Western Chittenden-Washington-Western Addison-Eastern Addison- 1242 PM EST Wed Jan 20 2021 ...AN AREA OF HEAVY SNOW WILL AFFECT NORTHEASTERN ESSEX... NORTHWESTERN ADDISON...SOUTHERN CHITTENDEN AND NORTHWESTERN WASHINGTON COUNTIES... At 1241 PM EST...an area of heavy snow was over Shelburne...moving southeast at 20 mph. Locations impacted include... Vergennes, South Burlington, Burlington, Essex, Willsboro, Ferrisburg, Charlotte, Waltham, Bristol, Monkton Ridge, Monkton, Monkton Boro, Williston, New Haven, Bolton, Richmond, Mt. Philo State Park, Hinesburg, St. George and Huntington. This includes Interstate 89 between mile markers 69 and 79, and between mile markers 83 and 87. * visibilities will drop quickly to less than a mile in this area of heavy snow. * sudden and brief snowfall rates of 1 to 2 inches per hour are possible in this area of heavy snow.

LOL, Mother Nature and her snowy ways definitely changed my day up a bit today. I stopped off at Timberline for a couple of runs on my way to work for a meeting, and it was just dumping 1-2”/hr snowfall with conditions that were off the hook. It was the kind of snowfall where if you don’t move around much during the lift ride, you find a half inch of accumulation pouring off you when you disembark from the lift. It’s midweek of course, so the mountain is virtually deserted, with refills on every run. It was so good that I had to stick around for another run, and then just headed back down to the house for the meeting instead (it was a Zoom meeting anyway). You know it dumped even in the valley, because I found a fresh 2.2" on the boards at home. The boys are home and done with their schooling for the afternoon, so I figured I had to see if they wanted to get out for some turns.

Event totals: 2.2” Snow/0.10” L.E. I’ve considered the previous event completed as of the overnight snow, and after a (very) brief lull, we’re on to the next one, which the BTV NWS AFD is describing as an upper-level trough and shortwave energy, and there’s an associated arctic cold front that they’re highlighting as well due to its propensity for quick accumulations with heavy snow. Details from the 12:00 P.M. Waterbury observations: New Snow: 2.2 inches New Liquid: 0.10 inches Snow/Water Ratio: 22.0 Snow Density: 4.5% H2O Temperature: 30.0 F Sky: Snow (5 to 20 mm flakes) Snow at the stake: 14.5 inches

As I was making my previous post, I just remembered a classic cartoon scene that is too perfect for the thread. I’m sure the scene with the panthers could be used in so many ways… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM_n9croRyg

There are so many posts in the thread right now just begging for a bread and butter stamp, but having a BTV NWS snow forecast map that essentially screams “bread and butter” is a pretty nice contribution. Their text from that Facebook post is just what skiers like to hear: “More good news if you enjoy winter, we are expecting several more rounds of light accumulating snowfall. Here is our latest expected snowfall map through Jan 22 at 7 PM.” I’d say that “…several more rounds of light accumulating snowfall.” seems to call for this image:

Event totals: 2.9” Snow/0.08” L.E. Details from the 6:00 A.M. Waterbury observations: New Snow: 2.1 inches New Liquid: 0.07 inches Snow/Water Ratio: 30.0 Snow Density: 3.3% H2O Temperature: 20.7 F Sky: Cloudy Snow at the stake: 14.0 inches

Event totals: 0.8” Snow/0.01” L.E. Details from the 6:00 P.M. Waterbury observations: New Snow: 0.8 inches New Liquid: 0.01 inches Snow/Water Ratio: 80.0 Snow Density: 1.3% H2O Temperature: 23.4 F Sky: Light Snow (1 mm flakes) Snow at the stake: 12.5 inches

The flakes have been small thus far and really only amounted to a dusting, but now we’re getting some larger flakes with measurable accumulation – it’s in association with that area of more intense returns hitting our area along the Chittenden/Washington country border:

We had already been planning to head back to the mountain yesterday for an early morning start, since Bolton’s highest elevation lifts (Vista Quad and Wilderness Double) never ran on Sunday due to high winds. They both ran fine yesterday and delivered some great skiing on the upper mountain. Conditions already would have been great, but that extra 3-4” of sub-4% H2O champagne put the icing on the cake, and it continued to snow much of the morning as well. I already summed up the VT resort snow totals for Winter Storm Malcolm in my post yesterday, but ultimately everyone along the spine seemed to be in that 1½ to 2 foot range. Without a heavily consolidated based below what just fell from Malcolm, it’s tough to get settled depths from just this storm because there’s no clear demarcation in the snowpack. Depth checks of the settled snowpack that I made yesterday were all in the 20”+ range, and it was certainly deep up around 3,000’. I did a snowpack depth check right around the 3,000’ mark in the Outlaw Woods, and found 32”, which seemed somewhat reasonable with a depth of 30” reported from the Mt. Mansfield Stake. I can’t speak to the financial aspects, but in terms of snow conditions, it was definitely a solid holiday weekend for the resorts. A couple more shots from yesterday: